L.A. and San Fransico, Modern day Sodom and Gomorrah

reply to post by dbates

As far as the bigotry is concerned, would I be a bigot if I was intolerant of theft? What about murder? Are you a bigot if you're intolerant of murder? You see you're only a bigot if you're intolerant of things that are shown to be acceptable and good. Since this discussion is about homosexuality in light of the Bible, your argument falls flat on it's face and fails.

Acts of thievery and murder hurt others.

Anyway, homosexual orientation is a part of one's identity. To hate homosexual orientation is to hate the person personally.

Will your feelings be hurt if I told you I hate your eye color? The way you wear? How you act? How about your left handedness (if you are left handed)?

reply to post by dbates


Seriously Dbates?

I have personally been in a thread that I know you participated in, where many members, including myself, clearly outlined why the Bible was not saying the Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed due to homosexuality, or even homosexual sex.

Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed, according to the Bible, because the citizens were not good people. They were wicked towards outsiders. They didn't care for the poor, etc. Here is something God said (according to the Bible) about why the cities were destroyed:

"She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me."

Here is what Flavius Josephus, a Romano-Jewish historian, has to say about Sodom and Gomorrah:

Now, about this time the Sodomites, overwhelmingly proud of their numbers and the extent of their wealth, showed themselves insolent to men and impious to the divinity, insomuch that they no more remembered the benefits that they had received from him, hated foreigners and avoided any contact with others. Indignant at this conduct, God accordingly resolved to chastise them for their arrogance, and not only to uproot their city, but to blast their land so completely that it should yield neither plant nor fruit whatsoever from that time forward.
—Jewish Antiquities 1:194-195

wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah

Concerning the 'homosexual' aspect:

19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:

19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

19:6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
19:7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.

Here is what the historian again has to say:

And the angels came to the city of the Sodomites...when the Sodomites beheld the young men, who were outstanding in beauty of appearance and who had been received into Lots’s house, they set about to do violence and outrage to their youthful beauty....Therefore, God, indignant at their bold acts, struck them with blindness, so that they were unable to find the entrance into the house, and condemned the Sodomites to destruction of the whole population.
—Jewish Antiquities 1:199-202

So we know that a gang of men came to Lots house, demanding the angels (in disguise of men) be handed over to them. The townsmen wanted to use them for sex. The angels (men in disguise) and Lot, were obviously not willing to comply.

So what does that say to us thinking folk?...

Gang Rape. And gang rape is not homosexuality. It is gang rape.

[edit on 19-11-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by dbates

Now back to the actual subject. Are the fires a judgment on L.A. and San Francisco? I really doubt it. God told Abraham that he would spare Sodom and Gomorrah if he could find just 10 righteous people in those cities. I'd wager that more than that number live in the area of the fires.

Secondly you're not giving God enough credit. Don't you think that an actual act of judgment would be more severe than this? You're selling God short when you make a few wild fires out to be his "vengeful wrath". I'd like to think it would be more dramatic than what we're seeing today.

If there were a modern day Abraham around I am sure he would be negociating as we speak. There are many more Sodoms around today... My point is the fires, quakes, etc, etc, is a warning to the righteous to flee..............

Christ gave many signs and warnings in Matt 24.......now read the headlines, watch the news, the warnings are all around us.....

Originally posted by smokingmonkey
From a real Christian, thanks for trying to ruin any goodwill toward Christians that exists on here. I'm sure God appreciates the way you hit people over the head with His word.

err again you speak of God's word yet ignore it..........Matt 10:34

34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

What part do you not understand?


[edit on 20-11-2008 by heliosprime]

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

So we know that a gang of men came to Lots house, demanding the angels (in disguise of men) be handed over to them. The townsmen wanted to use them for sex. The angels (men in disguise) and Lot, were obviously not willing to comply.

So what does that say to us thinking folk?...

Gang Rape. And gang rape is not homosexuality. It is gang rape.

[edit on 19-11-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

So for the last 3500 years, the word for homosexual "was" sodomite...why? Gang rape of "men" is homosexuality............please your spin is a little slow on this one..........

reply to post by heliosprime


If you do not know the difference between Rape and a Sexual Orientation, then not only are you completely ignorant on the topic, but you are suspect of an ethical concern yourself... to say the least.

Hint: rape = opposite of consensual sex.

If a man raping a man is homosexuality. Then a male priest raping a little girl is heterosexuality. Did that last sentence strike a cord?

These are examples of a rapist and a child rapist. These sexual crimes transcend the sexual orientation itself, for both.

Anyways, let me ask you a question:

What do you think is worse. A man having consensual sex with a man. Or a group of men raping a man?

reply to post by heliosprime

So for the last 3500 years, the word for homosexual "was" sodomite

WHHHAAAT???

The interpretation of Genesis 19 as referring to a homosexual sin appears to have been created in the 11th century by the Italian ascetic St. Peter Damian. 3 Christian theologians generally accepted this explanation until recently. In fact, the English word sodomy, which popularly means either homosexual or heterosexual anal intercourse, was derived from the name of the city.

www.religioustolerance.org...

Please read and educate yourself.

reply to post by Deaf Alien




I figured I would leave some for you! hehe

Quick info from Wiki too:

Sodomy (IPA: /ˈsɒdəmi/) is a term used today predominantly in law (derived from traditional Christian usage) to describe the act of anal intercourse, oral intercourse, as well as bestiality. When used in a religious context, it has a negative connotation.

wiki/Sodomy



[edit on 20-11-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

Well, you seem a bit harsh on the cities' names, calling them the modern day S&G. Homosexuality is an old deviation off the God-given, started with Adam and Eve (non-Jews and non-Christians, if you do not like this, get right with God). And it is stated in the gospel of Luke, chapter 17, it shall be in the End as it were in the days of Noah and in the days of Lot.

Lot went to stay in the city Sodom, and was barely saved the destruction, only by the angels God sent to remove him and his house from there. The main sin in Sodom, is clearly written out in Genesis 19.

Their sin was not greater, nor worse than any other; but they were offered an alternative, but rejected it and then even wanted to sin with Lot even worse, for merely stating their sin.

Then the angels took Lot and his daughters out of the city and the entire district was destroyed.

Likewise, in these end-of-days, those opposing sin at all, shall be despised by the World for infringing their Wrongs...Rights, and those who obey God's Word shall necessarily be forced to "flee" for their own safety, as the christians were ordered to leave for their own safety.

God loves people, and therefore Jesus died for their sins. But He hates sin, and those who refuse to repent, shall eventually be burnt with brimstone. As S&G were the first physical examples. With all who were in them.

reply to post by J.Smit


Not comments on the S & G posts already posted on this page

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

What do you think is worse. A man having consensual sex with a man. Or a group of men raping a man?

Both are repugnant vile acts that are abominations to God........

As for the rape of a child by a priest, again, vile, repugnant, and an abomination.

Sex between men or between women or between humans and any animal is "rape of the soul" and unless repented is worthy of complete death of the soul. It is an afront to God.

Also how approptiate San Fransico be named for the patron saint of animals...........

And Los Angels "city of Angels" but whose angels? The fallen ones?

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by J.Smit

 

Not comments on the S & G posts already posted on this page

Biblical Sense
The term sodomy derives from the name of the ancient city of Sodom, which according to the Bible was destroyed by God for its misdeeds (Sodom and Gomorrah), and in today's common language identifies the practice of anal intercourse, even if in the Bible Sodom is not explicitly and unambiguously the town of homosexuality. Traditionally, the misdeeds of Sodom have been understood to be male homosexual anal intercourse; but some people today interpret its misdeeds to be homosexual rape, not sex within the context of a homosexual relationship. Further, this interpretation seems to be contradicted by Ezekiel 16:49 which states: "Only this was the sin of your sister Sodom: arrogance! She and her daughters had plenty of bread and untroubled tranquillity; yet she did not support the poor and the needy". It is in the book of Jude (1.4, 7, 8) that an explicit recall to fornication is available: "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities". It is around 96 AD, that Josephus first used (in his Antiquities) the term sodomy to mean homosexual acts.

www.websters-online-dictionary.net...

The first time the word was "written" (96AD), based on the amount of hellfire used on the vile places, I would think the word was commonly used since that time.........

Talk about a description of san fransicko ""Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities".

Thank You. This thread reminded me why I don't believe in religions. They are only created to separate the people, create hatred towards others and are just plain discusting.

Whether a homosexual can marry or not, is not your judgment call. Who decided that you were judge and jury? People need to stop nosing around in others' business and just live your own life.

This is why the US is sinking fast. It's just so damn discusting. To rant and rave about whether gays can marry isn't your (OP's) concern. What's it's going to do to you? You plan on holding marriage ceremonies in your living room? All these frivilous items that get our tax money syphened down for "the good of another" is just a bunch of BS.

I'm sorry, I couldn't read this whole thread, after about the first 4 posts I was ticked off and had to say something.

A_L

Originally posted by another_lurker
Whether a homosexual can marry or not, is not your judgment call. Who decided that you were judge and jury? People need to stop nosing around in others' business and just live your own life.

This is why the US is sinking fast. It's just so damn discusting. To rant and rave about whether gays can marry isn't your (OP's) concern. A_L

Yet another example of those who deny God.....Homosexuality is an abomnation based on God.....

I am not being "judge or jury"......God IS! He is the only one who is "just" enough to do it correctly. The US is "sinking fast" because of people like yourself ignoring God's will..............

The creation of America and its continued existence "was" filled with many, many, devine miracles, all the way from 1609 until around 1973 when the supreme "vileness" crammed the murder of the unborn down America's throat and "we the people" didn't rise up and throw the bums out.

One can absolutely correlate the decline of America with the "rise" in so called "homosexual rights"........

America is ignoring God..........soon his wrath will clean America and the world up.................

Originally posted by heliosprime
Homosexuality is an abomnation based on God.....
I am not being "judge or jury"......God IS!

No, your interpretation of "God" is taking credit for a natural occurrence on our planet.

The creation of America and its continued existence "was" filled with many, many, devine miracles, all the way from 1609 until around 1973 when the supreme "vileness" crammed the murder of the unborn down America's throat...

Are you serious? Do you know how overpopulated America would be right now if those laws were not put in place? The "American Dream" would have ended a LONG time ago and the crisis we're facing now would have destroyed us.

One can absolutely correlate the decline of America with the "rise" in so called "homosexual rights"........
America is ignoring God..........soon his wrath will clean America and the world up.................

No, soon people like you are ones who won't be tolerated anymore because America is slowly rejecting outdated ideologies that kept the world in barbarianism and restricts the rights of ALL humans on this planet. We're stepping in a good direction, for the betterment of the whole planet, why would you think this would not be pleasing to God?
I'm not saying I know what pleases God but, without a Bible, do you?



[edit on 22-11-2008 by mmariebored]

Originally posted by bruxfain
Doesn't the concept of marraige/union have its origin in the Bible?

No.

Originally posted by bruxfain
I am not sure that all people could marry in pre-biblical times. Only certain people. In pre-biblical times most people were owned by someone and property cannot marry. Only Royal or Noble marriages were recognized by law.

Wrong. THis was never true.

Originally posted by bruxfain
Where is your evidence and proof that pagan's married or had the same concept of marriage as outlined in the Bible.

India, China,

Now if you want to pretend India and China didn'dt have marriages btweeen to people, One man, One women, then you are an idiot.

marriage

Originally posted by mmariebored
No, your interpretation of "God" is taking credit for a natural occurrence on our planet.

God make's himself known, no "interpretation" is needed, if YOU must interprete your god then he isn't God.............

Are you serious? Do you know how overpopulated America would be right now if those laws were not put in place? The "American Dream" would have ended a LONG time ago and the crisis we're facing now would have destroyed us.

Yet another deranged excuse for mass murder.......

No, soon people like you are ones who won't be tolerated anymore because America is slowly rejecting outdated ideologies that kept the world in barbarianism and restricts the rights of ALL humans on this planet. We're stepping in a good direction, for the betterment of the whole planet, why would you think this would not be pleasing to God?
I'm not saying I know what pleases God but, without a Bible, do you?

The only direction america is stepping toward is complete destruction.....homosexuality has destroyed every single nation or empire in which it has been allowed to "exist openly". Every single one.......homosexuality is the destruction of the species.......

"without the bible"? the entire reason there is a bible, is so man can re-establish a relationship with God.....something lost over the last several thousand years..........The bible gives precise instructions of HOW to please God...........

reply to post by heliosprime

Yet another deranged excuse for mass murder...

Interesting you should say that.

The bible gives precise instructions of HOW to please God...

"Intructions", eh?
Psalm 137:8-9
8 O Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction,
happy is he who repays you
for what you have done to us-

9 he who seizes your infants
and dashes them against the rocks.


Written by God, hmmm.

I like my version of God better.

reply to post by detachedindividual

The people that are spreading hatred are really not Christian they just call themselves Christian. Christian believe that God sent his only son (Jesus)
to earth to save us all, not just the so called (Good People) none of us are good enough to get into heaven and none of us are good enough to judge anyone's sins, we are all sinners in the sight of God.
Jesus spent his time with the so called scum of the earth, if you think you are spreading God's word of salvation through Jesus by hatred you are not Christian, you are not following even your bible, there are more then one,. You need to read John over and over again get it into your head that Jesus was for love.

Originally posted by dooperKeep it to yourself, keep it in private, and do whatever you want. But you try to shove that nasty crap in my face, and I get beligerent very quickly.

Funny that. I could say that EXACTLY about christianity

... pushing their views over my views and proclaiming that I'm wrong and they are right.

The mind pollution that is religion is the (one and only) reason why I am an Atheist.