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L.A. and San Fransico, Modern day Sodom and Gomorrah
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Originally posted by Mikey84
Just actually read the bible, you will see most of us are abominations, the difference is.... the bible actually states it’s an abomination to eat shellfish and pork, it states it’s an abomination to wear clothes made with 2 different fabrics, what it doesn’t actually state is anything at all about homosexuals.
[edit on 9/12/2008 by Mikey84]
Errr......mikey would be wrong.....Lev 20:13
13If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
www.biblegateway.com...
This is the definition of homosexuality and as it states.....it is by your own "choice" you do this abomination......it's not "genetic" or anything else other than a choice.........
So are you picking and choosing which testaments to follow? Look at the original language and texts of the bible; it’s not as nice and clear as you
and your religion make it out to be. Still doesn’t actually mention homosexuality.
Sodom and Gomorrah is actually about lust and rape, not homosexuals.
I’m curious; do you ever eat pork or shellfish? Do you ever wear clothing made from 2 different fabrics? Cotton and Polyester maybe? Do you still judge? Does your mother, sisters, daughters cover their hair? If not do you at least shave it for them...... I mean you wouldn’t want to be committing an abomination, would you.
Or are you picking and choosing which bits you like to follow in each of the testaments?
Like I said, either way, all is forgiven, we’re all getting in.
Mikey
Sodom and Gomorrah is actually about lust and rape, not homosexuals.
I’m curious; do you ever eat pork or shellfish? Do you ever wear clothing made from 2 different fabrics? Cotton and Polyester maybe? Do you still judge? Does your mother, sisters, daughters cover their hair? If not do you at least shave it for them...... I mean you wouldn’t want to be committing an abomination, would you.
Or are you picking and choosing which bits you like to follow in each of the testaments?
Like I said, either way, all is forgiven, we’re all getting in.
Mikey
I think both of you are missing the Biblical point Helios Prime and Mickey 84.
We are not under the Olde Testament Bondage. The Levitical Law does not apply to us except as our schoolmaster. The Ten Commandments have been taken further than the Olde Testament as a result of the death of the Testator.
The constant standard of Believers...both Olde and New Testament is to not do as the people in the surrounding nations did. To separate ...come out from amongst them and be ye separate..touch not the unclean thing.
This is particularly true of their religious ceremonies..among the rites of which included rampant runaway sexuality in many of the nations surrounding Ancient Israel.
The Children of Israel were told to not have anything to do with these abominations. Worshiping strange gods in the groves and high places...in the hills in the daytime and in the valleys at night. Yet we have the records of them doing exactly those things of which they were told not to do....including the sexual abominations...worshiping the creature and not the creator. Worshiping the flesh...the things of the flesh.
This is the very reason Ancient Israel was done away with by 70 AD.
This prohibition against these abominations continues into the New Testament. The religious services are greatly simplified from the Olde Testament Law and the Levitical Priesthood.
The dietary laws are done away.
The priesthood is done away...we are all priests unto God.
The temple is done away
The sacrifice is done away..
The land given to the Children of Israel is done away. God's people are everywhere ..of every kindred and tongue.
This means we are not under the Olde Testament Levitical Law and its bondage..we are not under the bondage of the law. You can see this clearly in the posts of the flesh here on this thread attempting to hold us to a Levitical law standard. For the Law is in bondage..with her children.
One thing is clear to Believers on this topic line..from Olde to New Testaments. Believers are never to identify themselves by their sexuality or sexual orientation. They are to separate from such abominations. Which is precisely what this world would not want us to do. They want us to mix in and by force and intimidation accept this non standard..this abomination. Or at the very least to keep silent about this.
I am not saying that people do not have sexualty ..not at all. I am saying that they do not identify themselves by this non standard. By this abomination. For people ...are so much "more" than sexuality.
For people to use their sexuality as a standard for acceptability is the height of ignorance and stupidity. This applies no matter what the orientation. And this non standard is pandered and prostituted out to the public constantly in an attempt to sell products and finally to sell votes. If necessary, to privily sell the very souls of a nation. To glorify man ..to glofiry the creature and not the Creator.
This is why it is whoredom...hetero and homo both.
What is astonishing to me is that even many Believers do not know this pattern while they constantly try to use Olde Testament bondage to make their point.
These abominations are in the Lords hands..not ours. Our sole responsibility is to separate from these things and manage our households after the pattern of God. To teach and preach with Godly Wisdom to our children why these things are so. To let the world pass in its abominations as it did even in Egypt..at the Passover. In this we are to remain covered in the Blood.
For one thing is obvious to those trained in the Blood...this world hates and despises the Blood and all that it means...From the Olde Testament schoolmaster to the New Testament Promise/Grace.
We are not to do as did Sodom and Gomorrah...Nor Sodom and Egypt.
Not as the world would have us to do...even today.
We are also not to get caught up in shallow arguments about the flesh...as is being so obviously attempted here...all attempts to drag us back to the flesh.
Helios Prime...you should know this. All attempts to get you dragged back to the flesh..to bring by the flesh..confusion...for the flesh profiteth us nothing...but the Spirit profiteth.
They are all attempts to ensnare you back into the flesh and the world. For they can do nothing else.
Once you are able to identify the pattern of the arguments of the flesh...you know of what and with what you are dealing.
Thanks,
Orangetom
[edit on 9-12-2008 by orangetom1999]
We are not under the Olde Testament Bondage. The Levitical Law does not apply to us except as our schoolmaster. The Ten Commandments have been taken further than the Olde Testament as a result of the death of the Testator.
The constant standard of Believers...both Olde and New Testament is to not do as the people in the surrounding nations did. To separate ...come out from amongst them and be ye separate..touch not the unclean thing.
This is particularly true of their religious ceremonies..among the rites of which included rampant runaway sexuality in many of the nations surrounding Ancient Israel.
The Children of Israel were told to not have anything to do with these abominations. Worshiping strange gods in the groves and high places...in the hills in the daytime and in the valleys at night. Yet we have the records of them doing exactly those things of which they were told not to do....including the sexual abominations...worshiping the creature and not the creator. Worshiping the flesh...the things of the flesh.
This is the very reason Ancient Israel was done away with by 70 AD.
This prohibition against these abominations continues into the New Testament. The religious services are greatly simplified from the Olde Testament Law and the Levitical Priesthood.
The dietary laws are done away.
The priesthood is done away...we are all priests unto God.
The temple is done away
The sacrifice is done away..
The land given to the Children of Israel is done away. God's people are everywhere ..of every kindred and tongue.
This means we are not under the Olde Testament Levitical Law and its bondage..we are not under the bondage of the law. You can see this clearly in the posts of the flesh here on this thread attempting to hold us to a Levitical law standard. For the Law is in bondage..with her children.
One thing is clear to Believers on this topic line..from Olde to New Testaments. Believers are never to identify themselves by their sexuality or sexual orientation. They are to separate from such abominations. Which is precisely what this world would not want us to do. They want us to mix in and by force and intimidation accept this non standard..this abomination. Or at the very least to keep silent about this.
I am not saying that people do not have sexualty ..not at all. I am saying that they do not identify themselves by this non standard. By this abomination. For people ...are so much "more" than sexuality.
For people to use their sexuality as a standard for acceptability is the height of ignorance and stupidity. This applies no matter what the orientation. And this non standard is pandered and prostituted out to the public constantly in an attempt to sell products and finally to sell votes. If necessary, to privily sell the very souls of a nation. To glorify man ..to glofiry the creature and not the Creator.
This is why it is whoredom...hetero and homo both.
What is astonishing to me is that even many Believers do not know this pattern while they constantly try to use Olde Testament bondage to make their point.
These abominations are in the Lords hands..not ours. Our sole responsibility is to separate from these things and manage our households after the pattern of God. To teach and preach with Godly Wisdom to our children why these things are so. To let the world pass in its abominations as it did even in Egypt..at the Passover. In this we are to remain covered in the Blood.
For one thing is obvious to those trained in the Blood...this world hates and despises the Blood and all that it means...From the Olde Testament schoolmaster to the New Testament Promise/Grace.
We are not to do as did Sodom and Gomorrah...Nor Sodom and Egypt.
Not as the world would have us to do...even today.
We are also not to get caught up in shallow arguments about the flesh...as is being so obviously attempted here...all attempts to drag us back to the flesh.
Helios Prime...you should know this. All attempts to get you dragged back to the flesh..to bring by the flesh..confusion...for the flesh profiteth us nothing...but the Spirit profiteth.
They are all attempts to ensnare you back into the flesh and the world. For they can do nothing else.
Once you are able to identify the pattern of the arguments of the flesh...you know of what and with what you are dealing.
Thanks,
Orangetom
[edit on 9-12-2008 by orangetom1999]
reply to post by Mikey84
You're posing a very difficult argument that I doubt the OP has the ability to BS needed in order to win.
I find most "christians" to be some very confused people, anyway. Probably because they're following a book that contradicts itself over and over again but they have to defend this book because they're brainwashed to believe it's "God's Word" and if they go against it, their souls are in peril.
No wonder he seems so frustrated all the time.
There really is no way for him to win the argument that homosexuality is what S&G were supposively destroyed for. It's funny because, if you think about it, someone can make up a story like this about any city that was destroyed and call it history. How can you prove that is was anything more than one crazy man's version of a scary campfire story to make sure his kids listened and obeyed his ideals?
You're posing a very difficult argument that I doubt the OP has the ability to BS needed in order to win.
I find most "christians" to be some very confused people, anyway. Probably because they're following a book that contradicts itself over and over again but they have to defend this book because they're brainwashed to believe it's "God's Word" and if they go against it, their souls are in peril.
No wonder he seems so frustrated all the time.
There really is no way for him to win the argument that homosexuality is what S&G were supposively destroyed for. It's funny because, if you think about it, someone can make up a story like this about any city that was destroyed and call it history. How can you prove that is was anything more than one crazy man's version of a scary campfire story to make sure his kids listened and obeyed his ideals?
reply to post by orangetom1999
Please provide scriptural backup for this claim. Your argument is very breezy without it. Even the lowly OP backs his words with the reference to where he learned them.
Where? Where in the N.T. do you find where that part of the law "carried over" and which acts are labeled as "abominations" and why were they "chosen"?
Good, then I declare the only law that shall henceforth be relevant is "An ye harm none."
Everyone eventually learns this, believers or nonbelievers. It's all a part of growing up.
Maybe a better word for "abominations" is excesses.
Like excess in food, alcohol, med usage, sex etc.
Because if you put it like that, people will not get so angry with you for lying to them by trying to convince them that your source of ideals came from God and not common sense. But then you wouldn't have homosexual argument.
[edit on 9-12-2008 by mmariebored]
We are not under the Olde Testament Bondage.
Please provide scriptural backup for this claim. Your argument is very breezy without it. Even the lowly OP backs his words with the reference to where he learned them.
The constant standard of Believers...both Olde and New Testament is to not do as the people in the surrounding nations did. To separate ...come out from amongst them and be ye separate..touch not the unclean thing.
The Children of Israel were told to not have anything to do with these abominations.
This prohibition against these abominations continues into the New Testament.
Where? Where in the N.T. do you find where that part of the law "carried over" and which acts are labeled as "abominations" and why were they "chosen"?
...we are all priests unto God.
Good, then I declare the only law that shall henceforth be relevant is "An ye harm none."
Believers are never to identify themselves by their sexuality or sexual orientation.
Everyone eventually learns this, believers or nonbelievers. It's all a part of growing up.
They are to separate from such abominations.
Maybe a better word for "abominations" is excesses.
Like excess in food, alcohol, med usage, sex etc.
Because if you put it like that, people will not get so angry with you for lying to them by trying to convince them that your source of ideals came from God and not common sense. But then you wouldn't have homosexual argument.
[edit on 9-12-2008 by mmariebored]
Originally posted by Mikey84
So are you picking and choosing which testaments to follow? Look at the original language and texts of the bible; it’s not as nice and clear as you and your religion make it out to be. Still doesn’t actually mention homosexuality.
Picking and choosing what? The scripture is pretty plain......
Such denial is amazing isn't it........how many thousands of years have homosecuals been called "sodomite's"? Is this enough languages?
Originally posted by Mikey84
Sodom and Gomorrah is actually about lust and rape, not homosexuals.
Modern Translation: Sodomite
Language Translations for "sodomite"; alternative meanings/domain in parentheses.
Albanian pederast (bugger, fag, pederast, queer, sod), njeri pervers. (various references)
Arabic اللوطي (bugger, homosexualist, sodomist). (various references)
Bulgarian содомит, педераст (bugger, fag, faggot, fagot, homosexual, pansy, pederast, pouf, quean, queen, queer, sod, swish). (various references)
French sodomite. (various references)
Greek σοδομίτησ, παιδεραστήσ (pederast), αρσενοκοίτησ (homosexual, pansy), ομοφιλόφιλοσ. (various references)
Hebrew ס�"ומאי (bugger, homosexual, pederast, sodomise). (various references)
Hungarian szodomita (buggery, sodomist). (various references)
Manx sodomagh. (various references)
Pig Latin odomitesay
Portuguese sodomita (sod), pederasta (bugger, pederast). (various references)
Romanian sodomit (paederast), pederast (paederast, pederast, queer). (various references)
Russian гомосексуалист (fairy, gay, homo, homosexual, invert, poofter, queer, urning). (various references)
Serbo-Croatian sodomljanin, sodomit. (various references)
Spanish sodomita (bugger, sodomist). (various references)
Swedish sodomit (bugger). (various references)
Turkish oğlancı (bugger, paederast, pederast, sod), homoseksüel (camp, fruit, gay, homo, homoerotic, homophile, homosexual, invert, pederast, poof, queen, queer, sod, swish). (various references)
Ukrainian гомосексуаліст (homosexual, pansy, queer), мешканець содому, педераст (paederast, pederast). (various references)
Welsh gwrywgydiwr (catamite). (various references)
Source: compiled by the editor from various translation references.
www.websters-dictionary-online.org...
Originally posted by Mikey84
I’m curious; do you ever eat pork or shellfish? Do you ever wear clothing made from 2 different fabrics? Cotton and Polyester maybe? Do you still judge? Does your mother, sisters, daughters cover their hair? If not do you at least shave it for them...... I mean you wouldn’t want to be committing an abomination, would you.
Or are you picking and choosing which bits you like to follow in each of the testaments?
No I do not eat pork, nor shellfish, nor wear dangerous clothing, I have not the power to judge......you have no understand of the rest of the rant so it is silly to answer...
Originally posted by Mikey84
Like I said, either way, all is forgiven, we’re all getting in.
Mikey
This is the most dangerous LIE of all time..........very, very, few throughout all of history of mankind will "get in"........
It takes constant work and faith, keeping all the commandments, the sabbaths, prayer, fasting to "love God".to show him so by dong his will.
All will be given a chance to repent, to learn the truth, but not all will be forgiven, especially those who know the truth and ignore it for thier own traditions.............
Originally posted by orangetom1999
I think both of you are missing the Biblical point Helios Prime and Mickey 84.
We are not under the Olde Testament Bondage. The Levitical Law does not apply to us except as our schoolmaster. The Ten Commandments have been taken further than the Olde Testament as a result of the death of the Testator.
[edit on 9-12-2008 by orangetom1999]
More LIE's from satan.........
Matt 5:17,18
17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Thank you for your faith in MY ignorance, and simplton ways........it only shows your own arrogance and ignorance....
reply to post by heliosprime
Oh heliosprime you make me giggle.
You believe in a book (well parts of it) and claim it the word of God (men actually wrote it). I really do feel sorry for you.
I’ll pray for you.
Mikey
Oh heliosprime you make me giggle.
You believe in a book (well parts of it) and claim it the word of God (men actually wrote it). I really do feel sorry for you.
I’ll pray for you.
Mikey
reply to post by heliosprime
Sighs. I'll let Good Wolf or noobfun deal with this. Quite frankly, I am very tired of making obvious corrections to myths to those who refuse to really take the time and research.
I'm tired.
Such denial is amazing isn't it........how many thousands of years have homosecuals been called "sodomite's"? Is this enough languages?
Sighs. I'll let Good Wolf or noobfun deal with this. Quite frankly, I am very tired of making obvious corrections to myths to those who refuse to really take the time and research.
I'm tired.
Originally posted by mmariebored
reply to post by Mikey84
You're posing a very difficult argument that I doubt the OP has the ability to BS needed in order to win.
I find most "christians" to be some very confused people, anyway. Probably because they're following a book that contradicts itself over and over again but they have to defend this book because they're brainwashed to believe it's "God's Word" and if they go against it, their souls are in peril.
The "contradictions" are in the translations from the original texts and the pagan influences of man...........The original texts are uncorruptable and I would advise those who truely seek wisdom to seek the original words and meanings themselves.
So many "so called" contradictions are from the ignorance of the reader, including most modern day "TV" preachers and sunday worshipers........
Originally posted by Mikey84
reply to post by heliosprime
Oh heliosprime you make me giggle.
You believe in a book (well parts of it) and claim it the word of God (men actually wrote it). I really do feel sorry for you.
I’ll pray for you.
Mikey
Correction .....I "BELIEVE" in the word of God, not any man........say but ONE.................pity the one in the mirror mickey.....you have your whole life anyway..........
God Bless
Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by heliosprime
Such denial is amazing isn't it........how many thousands of years have homosecuals been called "sodomite's"? Is this enough languages?
Sighs. I'll let Good Wolf or noobfun deal with this. Quite frankly, I am very tired of making obvious corrections to myths to those who refuse to really take the time and research.
I'm tired.
Tired of living a LIE? How many languages do you need to understand the truth?
Alas there are not enough words to speak to change your mind nor get you to accept God's will.........he has closed your mind...........more end time prophesy come true..........
Originally posted by heliosprime
Originally posted by orangetom1999
I think both of you are missing the Biblical point Helios Prime and Mickey 84.
We are not under the Olde Testament Bondage. The Levitical Law does not apply to us except as our schoolmaster. The Ten Commandments have been taken further than the Olde Testament as a result of the death of the Testator.
More LIE's from satan.........
Matt 5:17,18
17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Thank you for your faith in MY ignorance, and simplton ways........it only shows your own arrogance and ignorance....
I think Jesus was talking about his death being the fulfillment of the law.
I don't think you're a "simpleton", it just seems like you haven't been doing this that long.
reply to post by marie bored
marie bored,
Thanks for your question...again. As I recall in a post on another board you asked for clarification with a good question.
I must apologize if this will be some what brief in that my time window is coming up rapidly and I must make haste in this. I intend to return later to complete your inquiries.
Your quote above is in reference to my statement that we are not under the bondage of the Olde Testament Law.
Here is the verse clarifying this from the book of Galatians Chapter 4 and beginning about verse 21. Paul here is describing the differences in the Olde and New Testaments by the use of an allegory describing the two sons of Abraham. Ishmael and Issac. Here in this allegory it becomes obvious that Ishmael is the Olde Testament given on Mt Sinai through Hagar his mother...and is in bondage with her children. Thus meaning those under Olde Testament Law are in bondage..for the law is bondage.
The bondwoman and her son are the Flesh...the Jerusalem which now is and is in bondage with her children.
Issac born of Sarah is the New Testament and is free ...the mother of us all. The Jerusalem which is above..not the Jerusalem which now is.
I am using a King James 1611 version. This may not read the same in the newer versions like the NIV...
Nonetheless...This takes care of the muslims as well as the Jews under Olde Testament Law.
Once one understands this allegory ..it becomes obvious that all attempts to put us back under the Olde Testament are to make us into an Ishmaelite...not under Issac.
This is also the tack of the Muslims...they want Abrahams chosen son to be Ishmael ..not Issac. The line is of Issac ..not Ishmael.
Also ..a lot of people have a dislike of the Apostle Paul. Were it not for Paul's writings we would not have this comparison of what the Olde Testament means verses the New Testament and Grace. Many of the Epistles of Paul are describing this very change from the Death of the Testator on the cross and what it means to the Believer ..verses the Olde Testament Bondage. The book of Hebrews is full of this type of teaching as Paul is teaching and preaching to Hebrews in this book. He would naturally use more Olde Testament as these Hebrews would by nature be more familiar with this teaching than Non Hebrews.
And Paul..as a Pharisee...would be very learned in the Olde Testament in a way for which the other Apostles would not. Paul says to much and teaches to much ...which is why so many dislike him and try diligently to discredit him.
Nonetheless this is the verse from Galatians which describes the differences in the Olde and New Testaments and why we are not under Olde Testament bondage.
As I recall ...under the Old Testament system ..there are some 600 things a good Hebrew is supposed to do to faithfully keep the Old Testament. What a mess...good grief.
With a little time I can tie this into Sodom and Gomorrah..but I must make haste to shove off.
I will return as time allows. Thanks for your question.
Orangetom
[edit on 10-12-2008 by orangetom1999]
marie bored,
Thanks for your question...again. As I recall in a post on another board you asked for clarification with a good question.
I must apologize if this will be some what brief in that my time window is coming up rapidly and I must make haste in this. I intend to return later to complete your inquiries.
Please provide scriptural backup for this claim. Your argument is very breezy without it. Even the lowly OP backs his words with the reference to where he learned them.
Your quote above is in reference to my statement that we are not under the bondage of the Olde Testament Law.
Here is the verse clarifying this from the book of Galatians Chapter 4 and beginning about verse 21. Paul here is describing the differences in the Olde and New Testaments by the use of an allegory describing the two sons of Abraham. Ishmael and Issac. Here in this allegory it becomes obvious that Ishmael is the Olde Testament given on Mt Sinai through Hagar his mother...and is in bondage with her children. Thus meaning those under Olde Testament Law are in bondage..for the law is bondage.
The bondwoman and her son are the Flesh...the Jerusalem which now is and is in bondage with her children.
Issac born of Sarah is the New Testament and is free ...the mother of us all. The Jerusalem which is above..not the Jerusalem which now is.
I am using a King James 1611 version. This may not read the same in the newer versions like the NIV...
Nonetheless...This takes care of the muslims as well as the Jews under Olde Testament Law.
Once one understands this allegory ..it becomes obvious that all attempts to put us back under the Olde Testament are to make us into an Ishmaelite...not under Issac.
This is also the tack of the Muslims...they want Abrahams chosen son to be Ishmael ..not Issac. The line is of Issac ..not Ishmael.
Also ..a lot of people have a dislike of the Apostle Paul. Were it not for Paul's writings we would not have this comparison of what the Olde Testament means verses the New Testament and Grace. Many of the Epistles of Paul are describing this very change from the Death of the Testator on the cross and what it means to the Believer ..verses the Olde Testament Bondage. The book of Hebrews is full of this type of teaching as Paul is teaching and preaching to Hebrews in this book. He would naturally use more Olde Testament as these Hebrews would by nature be more familiar with this teaching than Non Hebrews.
And Paul..as a Pharisee...would be very learned in the Olde Testament in a way for which the other Apostles would not. Paul says to much and teaches to much ...which is why so many dislike him and try diligently to discredit him.
Nonetheless this is the verse from Galatians which describes the differences in the Olde and New Testaments and why we are not under Olde Testament bondage.
As I recall ...under the Old Testament system ..there are some 600 things a good Hebrew is supposed to do to faithfully keep the Old Testament. What a mess...good grief.
With a little time I can tie this into Sodom and Gomorrah..but I must make haste to shove off.
I will return as time allows. Thanks for your question.
Orangetom
[edit on 10-12-2008 by orangetom1999]
The bible is full of atrocities and evil. It was meant for a darker age not todays age. (well the old testament for sure) You people who claim to be
righteous and know gods will need a reality check. Your no better than anybody else, and to say you are is to go against the very teachings that you
claim to adhere too.
reply to post by orangetom1 999
I look forward to your answers, but please keep my questions in mind:
1)"Where in the N.T. do you find where that part of the law "carried over"
2)and which acts are labeled as "abominations"
3)and why were they "chosen"? "
Remember, this is in line with the OP's accusation about homosexuality being the reason for S&G's demise.
(And I don't believe we've had this discussion on another board.)
BTW, I'm fully aware of Paul's credentials, if he's the platform your using, you can skip that part.
[edit on 10-12-2008 by mmariebored]
I look forward to your answers, but please keep my questions in mind:
1)"Where in the N.T. do you find where that part of the law "carried over"
2)and which acts are labeled as "abominations"
3)and why were they "chosen"? "
Remember, this is in line with the OP's accusation about homosexuality being the reason for S&G's demise.
(And I don't believe we've had this discussion on another board.)
BTW, I'm fully aware of Paul's credentials, if he's the platform your using, you can skip that part.
[edit on 10-12-2008 by mmariebored]
reply to post by heliosprime
So we're to discuss names, then?
I see that you've chosen for yourself quite an interesting one. Helios-- Greek [and therefore Pagan, I might add] God of the Sun. Triumphant, glorious Helios-- and Helios PRIME, no less! First, greatest, and most revered! You are no more than a pretender, even a usurper, to the God you claim to follow.
You understand nothing of humility, and have therefore learned nothing from the message of your Christ, which it seems even I have absorbed better than yourself. Rest assured, I am intimately familiar with the scriptures you bandy about as though they were your own, and with those of many cultures, both older and wiser than the bronze-age tribesmen which spun these old, dead tales to which you cling so closely.
Your objectives are clear; you would usurp the power and terror of Yahweh for your own. You would have the ignorant and the fearful hang off of your words, and you would claim to pronounce for them the will of your God. I am sure you are aware, then, that the very scriptures from which you pick the ideological cherries which you toss about so freely make it very clear that His will is His own, known to no mortal. You, Helios, are a false prophet, and damned by the very book you claim to follow to eternal Hellfire for this hubris.
You would do well to recant now, to reconsider. Perhaps engage in a little humility, if you want to keep up the Christian schtick. But the Other Side is always willing to welcome a newcomer with open arms... and we require no false self-abasement
Give it some thought!
So we're to discuss names, then?
I see that you've chosen for yourself quite an interesting one. Helios-- Greek [and therefore Pagan, I might add] God of the Sun. Triumphant, glorious Helios-- and Helios PRIME, no less! First, greatest, and most revered! You are no more than a pretender, even a usurper, to the God you claim to follow.
You understand nothing of humility, and have therefore learned nothing from the message of your Christ, which it seems even I have absorbed better than yourself. Rest assured, I am intimately familiar with the scriptures you bandy about as though they were your own, and with those of many cultures, both older and wiser than the bronze-age tribesmen which spun these old, dead tales to which you cling so closely.
Your objectives are clear; you would usurp the power and terror of Yahweh for your own. You would have the ignorant and the fearful hang off of your words, and you would claim to pronounce for them the will of your God. I am sure you are aware, then, that the very scriptures from which you pick the ideological cherries which you toss about so freely make it very clear that His will is His own, known to no mortal. You, Helios, are a false prophet, and damned by the very book you claim to follow to eternal Hellfire for this hubris.
You would do well to recant now, to reconsider. Perhaps engage in a little humility, if you want to keep up the Christian schtick. But the Other Side is always willing to welcome a newcomer with open arms... and we require no false self-abasement
Give it some thought!
reply to post by marie bored
marie bored,
In continuance of my earlier post today.
Here is Helios Prime's problem and I don't think they get the nature of it.
You people are constantly arguing for homosexuality and using the Talmudic technique of looking for specifics as if it does not apply to homosexuality in the New Testament. My point from the beginning is that this applies both homosexual and hetero under abominations..in that both in Sodom and Gomorrah ..and today ...they worship the creature and not the Creator. This is abomination. The concept that Homosexuals are the only ones doing this is nonsense. They are just more noticeable to Believers. What many believers don't know is that they themselves are doing the same conduct in carrying out man made traditions...they are in fact worshiping the creature and not the Creator. In like manner as was Ancient Israel...before the diaspora of 70 AD and the fall of Jerusalem at the hand of General Titus, for this very disobedience, whoredom, and abomination.
To glorify ones sexuality...sexual orientation..homo or hetero is to worship the creature and not the Creator. This is one facet of the unclean thing. It is also another thing disapproved of both New and Old Testaments...vanity.
The pattern was and still is to separate from the traditions of this world..including the sexual traditions/abominations of this world.
Come out from amongst them and be ye separate. There are still a people who know the instruction to be ye separate.
Let me give you and example of this vanity...in the form of an idol and part of Idol worship..,man made traditions.
Take a close look at Jeremiah chapter 10 verses 3&4. Do you know a people who would claim to believe in the Lord and yet carry on with such man made vanity?? Such man made traditions?? That they would bring a tree into the home, nail it up, and deck it about with gold and silver. That they would make merry and send gifts one to another?? Yet so few of them even notice this ..they have been doing it so long ..that they... like the Abominations of the Children of Israel...think this is entirely normal. They no longer know the difference.
Oh...and while we are at it...does this look like it is only an Olde Testament phenomonon since it is only mentioned there. Would anyone be carrying on this same "tradition of men", this "vanity" today???
It is not mentioned specifically in the New Testament..it cannot possibly apply ...correct???
This is my point ...homosexuals are not the only ones doing abominations today as well as yesterday ..heteros were doing it as well. Part and parcel of the pattern of worshiping the creature and not the Creator. Same thing with other traditions.
LOL LOL Talmudism again. The We are all priests unto God refers to Believers. You and I worship a different God mmariebored. That much I know. No problem here. You have a very different priesthood/religion. We are not the same.
Oh no they do not!! Not everyone knows this!! All I have to do is go out about town on a Friday/Saturday night and observe wildlife in its natural animal habitat. Going about like advertising billboards ..male and female.
From this we get the joke about "Meat Lockers." Though it is said often in jest and mockery there is an air of truth about it. For many are hunting/advertising..trolling ..for prey..using artificial baits...lures. Male and Female.
I know people who have never learned it...they think it is the only game in town. They still worship the creature..and not the Creator....as they are trying to go another round before the biology runs out...and the clock strikes midnight Cinderella. Not only that...they do this thinking no one sees what they do. Just as did the Hebrews..in particular the Hebrew leadership. And we have this record of both obedience and abominations in the books of the Kings and Chronicles. Other places too ..but noticeably here..by the lines of the various Kings and priesthoods.
The word for it is abomination. Not Talmudic readjustments...like politics are wont to do or try on the unwary. And politics is very Talmudic. Let us sugar coat it so that no one notices what it is..or the pattern under which it operates or attempts to pass for something it is not. That way ..by changing the name...to excesses or whatever is the next subtlety to privily be inserted in place of abominations....people will not notice and we have privily taken away by subtlety...the homosexual argument. We have neutralized opposition..independent thought ...competition.
The subtle pattern among social engineers...using/misusing words..is that if a word or pattern can be inserted into a peoples unconscious thought...swapped..if you like...then you can now control how a people think and eventually conduct themselves. Guilt conditioning works very much like this. But you must carefully lead them down this path. It works better if they think it is their idea. Advertising is very much like this. Jingles, catchy song lyrics/slogans..very subconscious. I can see politicians doing this often. Today's politicians very much like and appreciate guilt conditioning.
Guilt conditioning is very good for votes and dollars. Guilt conditioning does not work on me. I have seen to much of it used and misused.
I don't worry about people getting angry with me. Take a look at what I told Deaf Alien about the occupation for which I am trained. And I am going to spend a lot of time worrying about whether people are angry with me...or approve of me..on this forum??? Not going to happen. And once again as I stated to Deaf Alien...this does not make me better than anyone else. It makes me different.
I don't spend much time trying out for peoples approval mmariebored. Believers as well as non believers. But you already know this by the responses to me of Heliosprime.
Oh..and before I sign off...yes, you are correct. We did not have this particular discussion on another board..but as I recall you did ask a good question on another board.
Thanks,
Orangetom
marie bored,
In continuance of my earlier post today.
Here is Helios Prime's problem and I don't think they get the nature of it.
You people are constantly arguing for homosexuality and using the Talmudic technique of looking for specifics as if it does not apply to homosexuality in the New Testament. My point from the beginning is that this applies both homosexual and hetero under abominations..in that both in Sodom and Gomorrah ..and today ...they worship the creature and not the Creator. This is abomination. The concept that Homosexuals are the only ones doing this is nonsense. They are just more noticeable to Believers. What many believers don't know is that they themselves are doing the same conduct in carrying out man made traditions...they are in fact worshiping the creature and not the Creator. In like manner as was Ancient Israel...before the diaspora of 70 AD and the fall of Jerusalem at the hand of General Titus, for this very disobedience, whoredom, and abomination.
To glorify ones sexuality...sexual orientation..homo or hetero is to worship the creature and not the Creator. This is one facet of the unclean thing. It is also another thing disapproved of both New and Old Testaments...vanity.
The pattern was and still is to separate from the traditions of this world..including the sexual traditions/abominations of this world.
Come out from amongst them and be ye separate. There are still a people who know the instruction to be ye separate.
Let me give you and example of this vanity...in the form of an idol and part of Idol worship..,man made traditions.
Take a close look at Jeremiah chapter 10 verses 3&4. Do you know a people who would claim to believe in the Lord and yet carry on with such man made vanity?? Such man made traditions?? That they would bring a tree into the home, nail it up, and deck it about with gold and silver. That they would make merry and send gifts one to another?? Yet so few of them even notice this ..they have been doing it so long ..that they... like the Abominations of the Children of Israel...think this is entirely normal. They no longer know the difference.
Oh...and while we are at it...does this look like it is only an Olde Testament phenomonon since it is only mentioned there. Would anyone be carrying on this same "tradition of men", this "vanity" today???
It is not mentioned specifically in the New Testament..it cannot possibly apply ...correct???
This is my point ...homosexuals are not the only ones doing abominations today as well as yesterday ..heteros were doing it as well. Part and parcel of the pattern of worshiping the creature and not the Creator. Same thing with other traditions.
...we are all priests unto God.
Good, then I declare the only law that shall henceforth be relevant is "An ye harm none."
LOL LOL Talmudism again. The We are all priests unto God refers to Believers. You and I worship a different God mmariebored. That much I know. No problem here. You have a very different priesthood/religion. We are not the same.
Believers are never to identify themselves by their sexuality or sexual orientation.
Everyone eventually learns this, believers or nonbelievers. It's all a part of growing up.
Oh no they do not!! Not everyone knows this!! All I have to do is go out about town on a Friday/Saturday night and observe wildlife in its natural animal habitat. Going about like advertising billboards ..male and female.
From this we get the joke about "Meat Lockers." Though it is said often in jest and mockery there is an air of truth about it. For many are hunting/advertising..trolling ..for prey..using artificial baits...lures. Male and Female.
I know people who have never learned it...they think it is the only game in town. They still worship the creature..and not the Creator....as they are trying to go another round before the biology runs out...and the clock strikes midnight Cinderella. Not only that...they do this thinking no one sees what they do. Just as did the Hebrews..in particular the Hebrew leadership. And we have this record of both obedience and abominations in the books of the Kings and Chronicles. Other places too ..but noticeably here..by the lines of the various Kings and priesthoods.
Maybe a better word for "abominations" is excesses.
Like excess in food, alcohol, med usage, sex etc.
Because if you put it like that, people will not get so angry with you for lying to them by trying to convince them that your source of ideals came from God and not common sense. But then you wouldn't have homosexual argument.
The word for it is abomination. Not Talmudic readjustments...like politics are wont to do or try on the unwary. And politics is very Talmudic. Let us sugar coat it so that no one notices what it is..or the pattern under which it operates or attempts to pass for something it is not. That way ..by changing the name...to excesses or whatever is the next subtlety to privily be inserted in place of abominations....people will not notice and we have privily taken away by subtlety...the homosexual argument. We have neutralized opposition..independent thought ...competition.
The subtle pattern among social engineers...using/misusing words..is that if a word or pattern can be inserted into a peoples unconscious thought...swapped..if you like...then you can now control how a people think and eventually conduct themselves. Guilt conditioning works very much like this. But you must carefully lead them down this path. It works better if they think it is their idea. Advertising is very much like this. Jingles, catchy song lyrics/slogans..very subconscious. I can see politicians doing this often. Today's politicians very much like and appreciate guilt conditioning.
Guilt conditioning is very good for votes and dollars. Guilt conditioning does not work on me. I have seen to much of it used and misused.
I don't worry about people getting angry with me. Take a look at what I told Deaf Alien about the occupation for which I am trained. And I am going to spend a lot of time worrying about whether people are angry with me...or approve of me..on this forum??? Not going to happen. And once again as I stated to Deaf Alien...this does not make me better than anyone else. It makes me different.
I don't spend much time trying out for peoples approval mmariebored. Believers as well as non believers. But you already know this by the responses to me of Heliosprime.
Oh..and before I sign off...yes, you are correct. We did not have this particular discussion on another board..but as I recall you did ask a good question on another board.
Thanks,
Orangetom
Originally posted by The Parallelogram
You, Helios, are a false prophet, and damned by the very book you claim to follow to eternal Hellfire for this hubris.
errr....just exactly where did I even come close to claiming to be a prophet? Perhaps the words of the LORD have burned into the wall you place around your beliefs.......................(all puns intended)...
Be careful of the sunburn from God's SON, it is everlasting, but a suntan found in his everlasting light is pleasing and eternal. Christ is the perfect SPF number for mankind, his blood shields those who accept him and do his fathers will from the heat of the lake of fire.
God will burn this planet with FIRE and all those who follow satan. Seek God and be warmed by his everlasting mercy and love.
Perhaps I chose my avatar for a reason...........just as the sun destroys the moon each morning, God will destroy the moon god allah.........
Originally posted by gravytrain
The bible is full of atrocities and evil. It was meant for a darker age not todays age. (well the old testament for sure) You people who claim to be righteous and know gods will need a reality check. Your no better than anybody else, and to say you are is to go against the very teachings that you claim to adhere too.
No I am no "better" than anyone else, the difference is I am seeking to understand the will of God and follow his teachings. His son was perfect in this action, and as "christians" we are to do and Jesus did........follow the fathers will............
There is no "old or new" testament, only the word of God. However misunderstood or mistranslated but man.........far too many times "paul" is quoted and changing what Jesus taught........do you really think that true? That paul superseded Jesus?
Satan has twisted the translations and meanings of God's word in the minds of those who only wish to be "comfortable" in thier religion. Those who SEEK God will find the truth hidden among the thorns.
For too long man has done what was 'convenient" when it came to doing God's will. Looking for the "between the lines" meanings so they didn't have to change their evil ways. Or placing meaning where there is none to lead others astray.............
All that will soon end, our planet has been chosen as the place where evil will be destroyed once and for all time.
Eat, Drink and be Merry, for tomorrow YOU die.....some will not and others will rise again to be judged............
[edit on 11-12-2008 by heliosprime]
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