The Christians hating gays contradiction

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by Annee

 

Who are we to determine - the qualities of the homosexual makeup - were not by design?

Problem is you have to prove that there is a design and a god. From the perspective of nature, there is no design being as how variation and therefore all evolution is driven by 'mistakes' or mutations. In point of fact, every single last gene in your body is a mutation of an older version, ever single one. Reproduction is pretty fickle, so many things can go awry and it seems non-heterosexuality is one of them.

No I don't - not on this thread. Focus: Christian. Christians already believe there is an omnipotent mystical Creator.

Problem I see - is they "Christians" who IMO are famous for being selective on what they believe when it suits them. Want to believe in this omnipotent spiritual being - but strictly physical biology on how humans are made.

It is a contrast. Did god just take a hiatus from creating? Here you are - now deal with it.

As a former assimilated Christian - I'm trying to stay focused on the title of this thread. Science and biological mutations are another matter. But who's to say the mutation (your terminology) wasn't engineered to fill in a void in a species.

I am a Christain (I really don't have a denomination anymore) and I am straight.

My view is simple. What I think doesn't matter, so why dwell on it? Everything is a reflection of God. It's not for me to judge anything created by God or anything that God dwells in.

(Not to mention I get some common sense kicking in, I have gay friends, some of them are the best guys I know, and it's obvious they truely love each other)

reply to post by dbates


because the christian group is opressing the gaygroup.. and have driven many to suicide... do u get it now??

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
To God, fornication is equal to homosexuality as a sin.
But most people don't accept that, either way. The bible is what, what it is. You can disagree with it all you want. God expects most to disagree with it anyway, no big surprise here.
But I do agree there is a double standard as to how churches and most people of faith look at sin.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (New International Version)

"9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."


According 1 Corinthians 6:9 & 10 a drunkard is just as bad as homosexual, or a thief or a fornicator. Is the bible being prejudice against fornicators too?

The standard is what the majority of society accepts, that's not the bible standard anyway.

Fornication=Sin.
Homosexuality=Sin.
Fornication=Homosexuality.

Thus most human perception of major sin is different from the reality as God see's it, and he see's it, as it is written in the book of Corinthians.




please try to rise above medevil thinking.. the word didnt even exsist then.. this is another attempt by a dogmatic church to vilifie another group.. but then again they have a long history of that, dont they

reply to post by scorand


I think the greater point is that various sins in the eyes of God aren't on a moving scale. God hates all sin. The good news is that God loves sinners.

my point is that the claim of homosexuality being a sin is bogus..

First Good Wolf, I must say that your picture is supremely badass.

Now, onto the real topic, I like the post above that says being able to be gay is a birth RIGHT, not a birth defect. We, as free thinking human beings have the RIGHT to do whatever the hell we please.

If the person above me is going to hell because he doesn't follow God's word, then I'm going to hell because I'm a Buddhist, I'd much rather be in the company of good natured and open minded people, rather than closed minded people.

God, that's a sketchy topic there, I do have to say that if there is a God, he must've been taking sick leave or something, because I sincerely doubt that our 'Father' is going to let all the things go awry that have gone as such.

Free thought is our gift as humans, we have the ability to make choices, what our choices are as human beings is often colored by our beliefs. I try to be as impartial as possible, Christians, stick to your guns, maybe you should do a little research on the topic of your religion, religious writings, and the Hebrew language. Gay folk, Gay can also be used to mean happy, so be Gay as can be! I'm going to go be me, you be you, and that other guy can be whoever he is. That's how things are, it's how things will be, and if God is to punish us for loving whom we please, and letting our friends and family love whom they please, then I'm not so sure that he's as loving as your books say he is.

Eventually we all will come to this conclusion, for love is the ultimate judge. For some, it will take many more life times- but no problem. We are in a game we can't lose, and if you think otherwise, you will eventually learn what's going on-

-There is no sin, only perspective
-Love knows no gender
-God doesn't have an ego (and therefore doesn't need worship)
-We are all creators of our own reality
-We have been brainwashed for eons (evident by this thread)
-There is NO HELL (unless YOU create one!)
-Whatever you believe becomes your reality
-There is no heaven (only growth)
-We are all the same (and connected)
-Love is all there is (the rest is an illusion)
-We have all lived lives of both genders (which is one reason for homosexuality)
-There is no correct belief we must buy into
-No religion is better than another
-No religion is 'right'
-There is no right or wrong, only experience and growth

This will not ring true to you if you have lived your life with narrow views and constructs. You need to think for yourselves and research the why's of your beliefs. The cool thing is, you are not 'wrong' for thinking the way you do, but just like a student in school, you eventually learn a better way to think. To eventually give up judgment and realize we are all on our own paths, and that none of us are wrong on these paths. We may disagree, but again, that is a very elementary way of thinking. And it doesn't even matter if you disagree with this post.

God can do anything, because he's not real, so he can hate or he can love, its all your choice, which land of delusion do you want to live in, one where you are happy, or one where you aren't?

Parabol: The OP had 4 questions. I would like to answer those for you.
It should be said I did not actually read all 58 pages of replies but since this post will only directly answer the 4 questions IMHO, it shoudn't matter to much. Also a pre-warning for anyone who hates to have scriptures quoted, I am choosing these scriptures to show that these issues have been addressed in the Bible (which is used to by "the other side" of this issue to bash homosexuals so its only fair to use the same tool to mess them up)

Do you not believe in a genetic basis?

Do you believe God creates people pre-damned?

Do you feel God gives you the right to judge?

Do you feel God hates gays, or anyone for that matter?

A1) IMHO I do not believe in the "Genetic Basis" for Homosexuality. It took years and years to map the human genome in the first place. I simply find it too far fetched that in the ~30,000 human genes that there is a magic combination that inflicts on an individual a self-terminating life style. I say self-terminating because at this point there is no way to take the DNA of 2 men and make a complete human being without using an egg from a female which will contain her DNA. Therefore, there is no continuation of the blood-lines which is a termination. If I were a homosexual I personally would be offended for basically being labeled a mutant that due to genetic structure find it difficult or impossible to reproduce.
A2)I do not beleive God creates people pre-damned. I beleive that God as a creator of Humankind has a complete and full understanding of the workings of all forms of human conciousness and choice. Hence the placing of the Trees in the Garden of Eden in the first place. Will without choice is not free will. I beleive that God understands that there are humans that will choose sin simply because he has given them the freedom to do so. The only way to stop a person from dieing and going to hell is to stop their creation in the first place. Where is the freedom in that?
A3)God has given no person on this earth the power to judge his fellow man. Romans 3:10 "There are none that are righteoous, no, not one". A christian is commanded above all things to love, even unto death. As a christian it is my duty to love my enemies even if it kills me, literally. It is not the duty of a christian to bash, demeen, damn, generally make life miserable for any person that they beleive is a sinner. We can witness to them IN LOVE or we can leave them alone. Bottom line, any "holier than thow" chrisitian is breaking the rules and doing more harm than good. However, that is not to say that a christian is not allowed to defend what they believe.
4)No, God is incapable or hate. There are times in the Bible that he is angry, regretful, and a pretty good array of other negative emotions but there is not hate. Its my understanding that through the "breath of life" that God breathed into Adam that Gods spectrum of emotions were passed on to Humanity, hence our love for beautiful things. The way it makes some people feel to see a sunrise. However, God can say let it be and it will, and it cannot be undone unless he says let it not be. I think that things have been perverted either by the actions of man or the devil, lets not give the devil more than his due. If the statement is true that no sin can exist in the presence of God then it simply can't. I am more than sure that a human with sin not being able to exist in the presence of God makes him far more sad that it makes me, and truth be told it does make me sad.

So... still IMHO homosexuality is a sin that goes against Gods command to be fruitfull and multiply and will probably cause a person to go to hell. But I or no other Christian have any authority to condemn a person because we are attempting to do what God can't, and that is to take away a persons own power of personal choice.

Originally posted by scorand
my point is that the claim of homosexuality being a sin is bogus..

Well if you accept what the Bible has to say about it, then it is. Of course that's key to understanding why Christians have an issue with it.

You say that God doesn't create people "pre-dammned?"

As soon as we are born we are destined for hell. It's because of a mistake two people made millions of years ago.

We must work our way to Jesus Christ. We are not born with him in our hearts. However we are in his.

We need to be clear about something.

Gays can reproduce. There is nothing wrong with their sexual organs or reproductive system.

They are simply born with a unique chemical or genetic makeup - one result is attraction to same sex.

It is a birth right.

reply to post by Annee


Gays can reproduce by having heterosexual sex. I've yet to see homosexual sex result in a pregnancy.

reply to post by BlueRaja


they dont have to have hetro sex.. and i have seen several couples have kids.. gay male couples and lesbian couples..

Originally posted by BlueRaja
reply to post by Annee

 

Gays can reproduce by having heterosexual sex. I've yet to see homosexual sex result in a pregnancy.

Is that what I said? Didn't think so.

FACT: gays can reproduce - there is nothing wrong with their sexual organs or reproductive system.

Many have reproduced via hetero sex or medical procedure.

Many Christians have reproduced via medical procedures also.

The argument gays can't reproduce is invalid.

I'm bisexual myself, but I'm not a christian as I am agnostic. I don't have anything against anybody's other religion. I respect it, but people that persuade others to join their religious cult in my opinion is wrong.
I heard that thing about the pope on the news... I personally think it is an outrage.
The pope gained a lot of hate from that speech.
If god did exist in my opinion, he wouldn't want the people he created to live in fear and hate amongst themselves. You know.. I thought the three words to describe god were love, kind and care? Am I wrong? Are the three words really hate, hate and hate?
I have lots of friends that are gay, and they are the nicest people you could ever meet.
I do not know a lot, therefore I cannot be sure on such a matter... but I came on this site to find other peoples opinions and the truth on some things.
Have a good day.

reply to post by Annee




[edit on 13-1-2009 by scorand]

I happened upon this site on accident actually, but it's a very interesting one.
Agnostic, I knew there was a word for it!

Anyway, Let me get back to the whole subject thing. Gay people can reproduce, unless there is a problem with their equipment. That's a different story entirely. Whether or not they do is simply a matter of who they decide to be with. IF, I say IF, God is all that religion claims he is, than he doesn't hate gays, he doesn't hate people at all, in fact, if religion is right(No, just because a book says so, that doesn't mean it is.) than he gave his son for that purpose.
Personally, I find many gay folk to be very...Gay, and in all their gaiety, they're happy with who they are and who they're with. Now this one is for you Christian folk... Would you deprive them of that happiness just so they could follow a scripture that is likely outdated theological material?

Gay gene could make women more fertile

Scientists suspect a genetic factor partly responsible for turning men gay also boosts fertility when inherited by women.

For that reason it has been preserved by nature, it is claimed. Normally such a trait, which acts to prevent offspring being born, would be weeded out through natural selection.

The Italian researchers say the theory ties in with other work pointing to a genetic link to homosexuality carried on the female X chromosome.

Gay genes may make women more fertile

Homosexuality in males may be caused in part by genes that can increase fertility in females, according to a new study.

The findings may help solve the puzzle of why, if homosexuality is hereditary, it hasn't already disappeared from the gene pool, since gay people are less likely to reproduce than heterosexuals.

A team of researchers found that some female relatives of gay men tend to have more children than average.

There ya go with your whole biblical be fruitful and multiply morality. Must be why Grandma had 10 children huh? Maybe if it is turned off the human race would go extinct. Interesting.



[edit on 14/1/2009 by toochaos4u]