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The Christians hating gays contradiction

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posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by Toelint
reply to post by Annee
 
Focus, people! You're argument is that Christians are hypocrits because they say "hate the sin, love the sinner." Fair enough, but where does your argument go when someone points out GAYS ARE EXECUTED BY LAW in Muslim nations?

Or should we argue these aren't really Muslim nations?


There may be a Creator - but RELIGION is man made and about control. Christianity is just the loudest voice in America. Other then that there is very little difference.

We ought to view all monotheistic religions (religions which enjoin belief in one God) in the spirit in which St. Peter viewed them when he said, "Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons, but in every nation he that feareth Him and worketh righteousness is accepted with Him." [Acts10:34,35]

The same is the spirit of the oft-repeated definition of "Muslims" in the Qur'an: "Those who believe and work righteousness" (al-lazina amanu wa amalu-s-salehat) [Qur'an 2:25, 2:62, 2:25 etc.]. And "Trust in the Lord and do good," as the Psalms say. [Psalms 37:3]

It is essential that any discussion of Islam as a monolithic religion must begin with its very fundamental concept of unity of God (Tawhid). In this context, it is also important to note that the creed of Islam is very simple. To become a Muslim, one has only to declare in sincerity, and preferably in the presence of a person already professing Islam, "I testify that there is none worthy of worship (god) but God, and that Muhammad is the Prophet of God". The first part of the Muslim creed is a dialectically rigorous rejection of polytheism in favour of monotheism. It underlies the pivotal Muslim doctrine of divine unity (Tawhid), and has historical antecedents in both Judaism and Christianity.




posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 01:04 AM
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I repeat...and repeat...and repeat...

And let's include the officially Athiest nations of Russia and China in this scavenger hunt. Is there a Non-Christian nation with laxer gay laws than us?

Still waiting...


P.S.

I guess I could add this bit: It ain't a perfect system...but it sure beats whatever's in second...

[edit on 10-2-2009 by Toelint]



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by Toelint
I repeat...and repeat...and repeat...

And let's include the officially Athiest nations of Russia and China in this scavenger hunt. Is there a Non-Christian nation with laxer gay laws than us?

Still waiting...


P.S.

I guess I could add this bit: It ain't a perfect system...but it sure beats whatever's in second...

[edit on 10-2-2009 by Toelint]


I don't see your point. The history of Christianity is very much about violence and forced control.

I don't see any particular enlightenment because of Christianity. I see enlightenment because of Separation of Religion and State.

Enlightened minds are still fighting Religious Control in this country. Gays having more freedom in this country and others is because of those fighting for Equal Rights for All.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 11:43 PM
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It came out of the middle east, most of the religions from there are of a violent nature.

Christianity is not the perfect religion, none of them have stopped wars, none of them have stopped hunger and plague, I ask you, where are these Gods that people pray so faithfully to?



posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 07:15 PM
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I think it would be nice if people of any religion could get together and stop bashing people for their life choices/genetic predisposition or any other term you wish to label it as. Until that day I think we will continue to see many people from those groups bash others.

However, just as not all Muslims are Islamist Extremist, not all Christians are haters to homosexuals.

Note: I am not trying to insinuate anything to the OP or any other readers to this thread. That has not been implied by the OP in any sense.



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 01:34 AM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Toelint
I repeat...and repeat...and repeat...

And let's include the officially Athiest nations of Russia and China in this scavenger hunt. Is there a Non-Christian nation with laxer gay laws than us?

Still waiting...


P.S.

I guess I could add this bit: It ain't a perfect system...but it sure beats whatever's in second...

[edit on 10-2-2009 by Toelint]


I don't see your point. The history of Christianity is very much about violence and forced control.

I don't see any particular enlightenment because of Christianity. I see enlightenment because of Separation of Religion and State.

Enlightened minds are still fighting Religious Control in this country. Gays having more freedom in this country and others is because of those fighting for Equal Rights for All.


My point EXACTLY is this. Even in Officially Atheist nations such as Russia and China, Gays are not simply bashed. They are imprisoned and/or institutionalized. (Imagine being deemed insane for being gay.) So much for your "separation of church and state" on THIS subject.

[edit on 14-2-2009 by Toelint]



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 01:47 PM
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Russian President Boris Yeltsin and Russian officials decriminalized homosexuality in April of 1993, following the lead of post-Soviet republics Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia, and Belarus.
--------------------

Government Opinion of Gays:

In February 2007, Mayor Yuri Luzhkov banned what was to be the first gay pride parade in Moscow. Mayor Yuri Luzhkov believed homosexuality was unnatural and described same-sex love as "satanic". He also believed a gay pride festival in Moscow would cause public outcry.

In response, gay rights groups sued the city unsuccessfully. Organizers held the parade anyway. The illegal festival ended in violence. Approximately 100 religious and nationalist extremists attacked festivals participants and 200 gays were also arrested for violating the ban.

Festival organizer Nikolai Alexeyev told the BBC's World Today, "This event was just the opportunity for us to say no to homophobia and to attract the media attention to this problem and to attract the attention of the authorities."

Weeks before the festival, 39 right-wing and religious activists were arrested for picketing and shouting slurs at patrons leaving a gay nightclub.
----------------------

Gay Marriage in Russia:

Same-sex marriage is illegal in Russia. Marriage traditions are heavily influenced by the Russian Orthodox Church, which sees homosexuality as a perversion.
-----------------------

NOTICE: "Satanic" - "Religious Activists"

gaylife.about.com...



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 12:03 AM
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There's also a nice little story at www.365gay.com concerning Russia and their new Treason Law which fogs the definition of that word so much, gayness now fits the bill for jail time if the government deems it necessary.

Actually, this is the address.

www.365gay.com...

[edit on 15-2-2009 by Toelint]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 10:19 AM
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You are just reaching for anything. Doesn't fly.

Religion - predominately Christian in this country - is the main cause of many prejudices - including slavery.

As a whole they tend to have an elitist attitude.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 09:52 PM
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What it seems to be more than anything is just human nature doing what it does. A few years back, I used to live out in the country and I once covered for my brother one day at a dairy farm. The farmer apparently had a gay bull. He had to keep it in the field with the cows because the other bulls would bully it, force it out of the group or just plain attack it. Chickens do very similar things in their social structures- bully the outcast- hence the phrase "Pecking order". Outcasts find themselves eating last.

You look at any animal with higher brain functions and complex social structures and you'll see the same thing, prejudice against the un-normal/atypical.

This isn't about religion, it's just humans being the animals they are, only thing is that some people try and justify their own ill-will against the gays with religion.

Homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone but homosexual persecution does, and these religions are supposed to be about loving and caring about our neighbours. The hypocrisy is detestable.

[edit on 16/2/2009 by Good Wolf]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by Good Wolf

This isn't about religion, it's just humans being the animals they are, only thing is that some people try and justify their own ill-will against the gays with religion.

Homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone but homosexual persecution does, and these religions are supposed to be about loving and caring about our neighbours. The hypocrisy is detestable.

[edit on 15/2/2009 by Good Wolf]


I've used animals as an example in many subject discussion. Such as how animals have complex ethical social structures with out the use of the bible.

Let me tell ya - - Christians scream the loudest that they are not animals. They consider themselves of a higher consciousness or something.

*** I know there are those individuals who truly walk in His footsteps. Blanket religious reference does not include them.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 12:28 AM
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Originally posted by Good Wolf
This isn't about religion, it's just humans being the animals they are, only thing is that some people try and justify their own ill-will against the gays with religion.


I should probably add that the 'ill-will' is something that manifests in mob mentality/large social groups.

 

reply to post by Annee
 


Let me tell ya - - Christians scream the loudest that they are not animals. They consider themselves of a higher consciousness or something.

Yes I know, humble aren't they. Uh wait no I think narcissistic is the correct term.


*** I know there are those individuals who truly walk in His footsteps. Blanket religious reference does not include them.

Again, true. I think it was Oscar Wilde who said "Every generalisation is false, including this one." Or something like that, I forget. Point is that there is an exception to every rule.

Few Christians are Christ like, most are just religious and as such are more prone to mob mentality.
Gandhi once said "Oh, I don't reject your Christ. I love your Christ. It's just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ."

That being the case we have a moral obligation to be intolerant of religious intolerance and bigotry.

[edit on 16/2/2009 by Good Wolf]



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 11:00 AM
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Being gay HAS to be natural, every gay guy I've known has been basically the equivalent of a prissy pacifistic girl with a bit of a lisp! And at seeing two guys kiss on the street, how could that turn ANYONE gay? I personally find it gross, it would be more likely to turn someone STRAIGHT!

Nurture isnt an apt argument either, I grew up with girls my whole life, I have a sister, our neighbours were THREE girls, all of my cousins around my age are girls. I didnt have much choice. So I would play with girls 100% of the time outside of school. I even got a barbie for christmas one year so I could play with my sister (she didnt like it when a transforming lizard or vehicle killed ken). All my sisters closest friends, who i often hung out with were girls.

By all accounts, I should be gay right?

Let me tellya Im straight as the barrel on an AK-47. Ive been lucky enough that all of my girlfriends have been attractive blondes, who I didnt CHOOSE to find attractive (its written in my DNA - I seriously prefer them over darker hair colours, and honestly - I find caucasians more attractive. Again, not my choice).

That being said - EVERY ONE OF THEM cheated on me. Yet I STILL find that archetype attractive.

Homosexuality a choice... feh.
Women are lying cheating whores, in my experience. I'd choose to be gay so fast...



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 01:15 AM
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reply to post by Ridhya
 


Being gay HAS to be natural, every gay guy I've known has been basically the equivalent of a prissy pacifistic girl with a bit of a lisp!


?? How many gay guys do you know? I've known a few and I've found that about half were effeminate and the rest had completely typical guyish behaviour and mannerisms.

But all the same, you have an interesting take on things, very honest and blunt. I've never heard any strait say anything along the lines of


Homosexuality a choice... feh.
Women are lying cheating whores, in my experience. I'd choose to be gay so fast...


Honestly I'm a bit stunned.



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 04:39 AM
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reply to post by Good Wolf
 

Haha... it gets the point across. I hope you got what it was.

Lets see... back in grade 3 or 4 I was pretty good friends with a guy who was gay (I say was because he started only hanging out with girls after), I've known gay people through high school, couple lesbians there too...
I worked in a restaurant for a year with a gay co-worker, I met his boyfriend and their friends a couple of times at their house parties (all the cool staff would go
)
Aaand doing counselling work at various places I have met a few kids who were ashamed of their sexuality because their parents hated them.

I wasnt meaning to stereotype all women or anything... but its true based on my experience. I still love em. Soon as I get into a relationship that doesnt end like that Ill let you know

[clarity]

[edit on 17-2-2009 by Ridhya]



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 06:09 AM
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reply to post by Parabol
 


If God had given men vaginas, and you could just pop out down to the shops and pick yourself out a nice little healthy baby, then I would probably have chosen to live with one of my closest male friends. Most of us certainly have more in common, more to talk about, more understanding for our fellow man that we have between ourselves and women. At least with my friends I never had the kind of difficulties, the discussions of the arguments that I have had with women.

I really like gay people, apart from the "in your face" aggressive ones, but mainly the gay friends that I've had have been caring, witty, funny, charming and fun to be around. The only point that saddens me about homosexuality is that they can't reproduce children. We've just had a baby boy last September, and it's great, when I'm feeling a bit down sometimes, I go over and pick him up into my arms and he smiles, or makes a little noise or does baby things and my heart brightens up and the clouds receed and I bathe in his sunshine. - This is the sad part that these people who have a lot of love to give - don't have the chance to enjoy and experience this. Sure, now in some countries you are allowed to adopt, or artificially inseminate - but I know from some of my friends that these procedures are highly bureaucratic, highly stressful, and in someways mean, as no-one tests straight people where they are fit to become parents - but in the case of adoption, or even IVF - people judge those wishing to receive the treatment (straight and gay alike) whether they would make suitable parents - this is tough, and I have friends who went through the rigours of IVF too and ended up divorcing afterwards when it failed. That's why I said if only you could pop down the shops and order your own baby - maybe in future you can.

Yes, I am a believer in Jesus Christ & his true gospel message of the forgiveness of sins and regeneration of the spirit through our faith in the washing and cleaning away of our sins through his blood which he shed for our forgiveness and redemption, that we may stand in his righteousness, justified before God, not because of our own personal holiness, but just like the white blood cell eats up dirty bacteria in the blood stream, then afterwards all you see is the white blood cell, we also stand within Jesus's righteousness before God and our Judgement & Punishment has already been accepted by Jesus - God does not remember anyone's sins when he looks at them stood inside Jesus he sees Jesus's righteousness.

It's true that in the Bible the practice of homosexuality is condemned. The main point many Christians miss is that in the Bible it says:

John 3:17

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Luke (6:36-38)

36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Matthew (7:3-5)

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Luke (6:41-42) says the same thing also. When God writes something or does something twice it's to make sure we get the message.

Christians who are homosexuals should be convinced themselves directly by the intervention of the holy spirit rather than gay bashers



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 09:44 PM
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reply to post by Ridhya
 


One of my friends (dude) is really effeminate. He's a figureskater and has skated in international comps inthe past. We all thought he was gonna turn out gay but no, he's just like that cos he's around the girls so much.

I tell you he has his pick of the girls!



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 03:30 AM
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reply to post by Good Wolf
 

Haha yeah I understand that, girls really like me too, I'm told Im charming a lot

Hanging out with girls is a good thing, gives you a better understanding of them. Also makes my friends jealous!



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 03:58 AM
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Originally posted by Ridhya
Being gay HAS to be natural, every gay guy I've known has been basically the equivalent of a prissy pacifistic girl with a bit of a lisp!


You probably know alot more gay people, it's just they're not camp so they can "get away" without everyone knowing. (this can come in handy, or it can be a hinderence)

I was once told, buy a mate of mine at a random moment outside the acid techno tent at a festival. "You're the straightest poofter I've ever met"


I don't mince about, or talk in a "oooh get her" kind of way. I'm more likley to turn round and stick the nut on ya if you # with me
(though I've not had to do any fighting for over 15 years, I'm still more than capable)


forgot where the rest of this post was going to go, so I'll just end on a smile



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 03:51 AM
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reply to post by Acidtastic
 


Well exactly. Gays aren't gays perceivably until they either start acting camp or they come out. However I know a couple (as in 2 or 3 individuals) who acted perfectly strait all their lives then they came out and still acted strait because that's just how they are.

I came out as bi awhile back and my friends expected me to start acting differently as if I no longer had pretend I was something I'm not, but I didn't. I still behave they same way I always have. Because I've never really acted out of character.

..Though they acted a little unnerved around me for awhile but that's pretty normal.

[edit on 19/2/2009 by Good Wolf]



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