The Christians hating gays contradiction

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


First you have a misconception of what marriage was in the bible days. Marriage was not some sort of magical experience. It was much like some current Asian countries where a man picks a wife, trades something to have her and has sex. That was marriage. Marriages were mostly legal exchanges between the family and the soon to be husband. to work out details on how to obtain the woman regardless if she were into it or not.

Jacob worked 7 years for the hag daughter Leah and another seven to have the beautiful Rachael. Trading services for a wife was also acceptable. The women were in fact nothing but property.

Blah Blah Bad Translation. You can find that verse listed here in other posts or look it up yourself. I am no longer Christian so I should not have to correct translation errors which you will not believe anyway. Homosexuals are not there in the earlier translations of that verse.

I certainly didn't trade my partner for a goat nor worked for his family to have him but, we did have our own ceremony and did have sex and trade things between each other. We didn't commit fornication because we are married already despite whatever the law says. Marriage is a personal pact between two people and I already have that.

"A little wine doth the stomach good"


Yeah I am a Christian dropout. I was never good enough for papa so I abandoned his house.








[edit on 28/12/2008 by toochaos4u]

reply to post by nrky

Wow you don't have a clue.

Yes God created everything, including Hitler and PolPot.

He also created something called "free will." God does NOT decide your detiny/fate/life.

You choose the path you walk and God just helps if you choose to follow.

God is not man or woman. God is God. Above that descirption.

For the record, I am not gay and neither am I a Christian. IMO, you actually do choose your sexuality. The vast majority of people are heterosexual, and those that are not constitute an actual minority that expects itself to be considered a majority. If you are gay (which btw i personally DONT think is actually bad or wrong) and claim you should be entitled to the same freedoms as those of heterosexual couples then you are just in denial and/or trying to fool yourself.

Some of these replies quite disturb me, especially the one from the gay-rights fanatic who suggests that he "hates heterosexuality" and their practices. Excuse me, but speaking from a minority what gives you the right to openly hate heterosexuality yet defend and expect others to welcome homosexuality at the same time?

Please take a long hard look at the situation. Most people who do believe that homosexuality is immoral (which i personally DONT), dont try to force their ideologies on those whose are. Whereas, many gay-rights activists go through great lengths to discredit religion and other traditions.

IMHO, I think the main problem in this whole debate is the ATTITUDE of gay-rights advocates. Remember, believing and having faith in something is one matter, acting and ignoring the consequences is another...

reply to post by ExamineAllViews


Well science says it's not a choice.
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
To God, fornication is equal to homosexuality as a sin.
But most people don't accept that, either way. The bible is what, what it is. You can disagree with it all you want. God expects most to disagree with it anyway, no big surprise here.
But I do agree there is a double standard as to how churches and most people of faith look at sin.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (New International Version)

"9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."


According 1 Corinthians 6:9 & 10 a drunkard is just as bad as homosexual, or a thief or a fornicator. Is the bible being prejudice against fornicators too?

The standard is what the majority of society accepts, that's not the bible standard anyway.

Fornication=Sin.
Homosexuality=Sin.
Fornication=Homosexuality.

Thus most human perception of major sin is different from the reality as God see's it, and he see's it, as it is written in the book of Corinthians.

Clearly you fail to realize that the original Hebrew text did not use the word "homosexual". There was no word, at that time, that correctly translated to our modern concept of "homosexuality" (i.e., kind, loving monogamous same-sex relationships) . You should do more research before you post ignorance as fact.

Many translations of the English Bible added the word homosexual later on. Not just in the passage you quoted, but throughout the Bible.

Furthermore, it concerns me that so many Christians put SO MUCH faith in certain beliefs and yet they don't even take the time to understand what the original Hebrew text says! How do you know you're even "saved" if you can't correctly research and interpret a simple miss-use of a word. Do you just believe whatever your pastor tells you?

Your post = Pure ignorance!

How can you say "God see's it, as it is written in the book of Corinthians." when you don't even know what Corinthians said before it was "re-written" in English to include this false puritanical ideology!

You simply cannot use just one English version of the Bible as the definitive word of God! You must account for all the variations in all the translations and you especially cannot overlook the original Greek and Hebrew texts!

reply to post by archetype_one


I will say again, disagree and ignore what the bible says all you want, but if you say it's not there, when clearly it is, in many different versions(see below), then who is posting ignorance


1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (New American Standard Bible)

9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.


1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (Amplified Bible)

9Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality,
10Nor cheats (swindlers and thieves), nor greedy graspers, nor drunkards, nor foulmouthed revilers and slanderers, nor extortioners and robbers will inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God.


1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (New Living Translation)

9 Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God.


1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (Contemporary English Version)

9Don't you know that evil people won't have a share in the blessings of God's kingdom? Don't fool yourselves! No one who is immoral or worships idols or is unfaithful in marriage or is a pervert or behaves like a homosexual 10will share in God's kingdom. Neither will any thief or greedy person or drunkard or anyone who curses and cheats others.


1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (Young's Literal Translation)

9have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites,
10nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, the reign of God shall inherit.


1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (Darby Translation)

9Do ye not know that unrighteous [persons] shall not inherit [the] kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who make women of themselves, nor who abuse themselves with men,
10nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor abusive persons, nor [the] rapacious, shall inherit [the] kingdom of God.


1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (New International Reader's Version)

9 Don't you know that evil people will not receive God's kingdom? Don't be fooled. Those who commit sexual sins will not receive the kingdom. Neither will those who worship statues of gods or commit adultery. Neither will men who are prostitutes or who commit homosexual acts. 10 Neither will thieves or those who always want more and more. Neither will those who are often drunk or tell lies or cheat. People who live like that will not receive God's kingdom.


1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (Today's New International Version)

9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor practicing homosexuals 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.


I also have a Greek to English bible translation too and it says "soft men" and "liers with men".

The point is crystal clear to me, sorry if you can't see it.

reply to post by Good Wolf


There is no scientific evidence that shows there is gene that can or does cause homosexuality.

"The American Academy of Pediatrics has stated 'Sexual orientation probably is not determined by any one factor but by a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences'

This statement tells me the majority agrees there may be a number of factors, but certainly does not say sexual preference is genetic.

At one time, twin studies appeared to point to a major genetic component, but problems in experimental design of the available studies have made their interpretation difficult, and one recent study appears to exclude genes as a major factor.

Again nothing definitive in here either.

[edit on 5/1/2009 by ExamineAllViews]

[edit on 5/1/2009 by ExamineAllViews]

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


I respect your right to an opinion, I just think your opinion is founded on a lie...

Notice how all but one of the versions you quoted that use the word "homosexual" specifically are "NEW" or "CONTEMPORARY" translations of the Bible. That was my point...It is on the Christian agenda to regard homosexuality as a sin so new/contemporary versions have added that word in.

There has been plenty of substantiated, theological and scholarly research done showing that the passages referring to homosexual behavior in the Bible do NOT refer to kind, loving monogamous same-sex relationships. They are always in reference to people doing evil acts against God, such as idolatry, temple prostitution, engaging in lust, rape etc...Even the words you refer to that loosely translate to "soft Men" or "liers with men" contextually do not have anything in common with our modern day concept of homosexuality.

I see very clearly what you have posted...what you have posted is a lie perpetrated by certain proponents of the Christian church. This lie is being used to fuel hate, just as certain proponents of the church have done to other minority groups in the past that they have deemed unfit for the "kingdom of God".

The powers that be want conflict, if the masses agreed and came together as one we would overthrow them. They fear this, so they plot to divide us. Once homosexuals have been liberated and have full and equal rights, just like blacks and women, the church will drudge up some other belief that attacks some other minority group and we will do it all over again!

Firstly I'd like to say I'm a Christian but have no problem with Gays. In fact some of the nicest people I know are Gay

The way I had this question explained to me goes along the general line of thought that at the fall (when Eve and Adam ate the forbidden fruit) all nature was thrown out of balance. Thats what gave human beings the capacity to be evil and also caused homosexuallity

So according to this train of thought Gay people are not part of god's design. but instead are a mutation caused by the devil after everything was already created.

I personally think the church should show the Gay commuinty compassion and understanding instead of hatred.

Please if you believe I am going to hell then fine I fully accept that. Let me spend my days in happiness on earth. Hell I shall deal with when I get there.

Well I am not Christian anymore for a number of years so I do not believe in Hell either...hrm. But, if I go I do so on my own free will. Open up those gates for me oh great devil for God hath rejected me. Maybe the great devil god is a good dancer?

I refuse to argue over a 2000 year book of mythology that is mistranslated and cherry picked many times over anyway.

reply to post by ExamineAllViews

There is no scientific evidence that shows there is gene that can or does cause homosexuality.

Yes I know but there are plenty of other factors that you are ignoring aswell. I never said it was caused by a gene anyway, more along the lines of a birthing defect.

Again

Well science says it's not a choice.

No disrespect meant but does it say anywhere int he bible that Jesus wanst gay?

kx

reply to post by purplemer

No disrespect meant but does it say anywhere int he bible that Jesus wanst gay?

We could say that about anything or anyone. "Where does it say that God isn't gay?"

Originally posted by Good Wolf

Yes I know but there are plenty of other factors that you are ignoring aswell. I never said it was caused by a gene anyway, more along the lines of a birthing defect.

Again

Well science says it's not a choice.

"Birth Difference" - - there is something different about every human.

I would only consider a defect - if a human is not able to think and function independently.

Attraction to same sex is a Birth Right.

reply to post by Annee

I would only consider a defect - if a human is not able to think and function independently.

Attraction to same sex is a Birth Right.

Well ofcourse one has every right to be how one was made. But the point stands, it's an abnormality caused by many different factors, most of the time, before birth.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by Annee

 

I would only consider a defect - if a human is not able to think and function independently.

Attraction to same sex is a Birth Right.

Well of course one has every right to be how one was made. But the point stands, it's an abnormality caused by many different factors, most of the time, before birth.

And I can say you are usurping god and god's intention. (I personally believe in intelligent energy - but need to simplify).

This may sound stereotypical - but it is just to make a point.

As some say - - "it would be a less beautiful world without gays".

Who are we to determine - the qualities of the homosexual makeup - were not by design?

I know its shocking - - but not everything is about procreation - especially when humans have evolved beyond the basic level of survival of the species.

Considering that mere man in this generation is discovering and working with our very makeup of DNA - genes - brain waves - etc.

It seems an extremely narrow thought pattern - - that god could/would not "fix" gays - - leaving a conclusion their specialness is by intent.

Even if you follow the belief that we are a product of evolved ETs - - they would be beyond our own capabilities and most likely could "fix" what is deemed incorrect.

Design or throw of the dice?

Being gay is not genetic, its a choice. Just like a Nun or a priest would choose not to have sex. The bible says not to be gay but it also says that you can sell your daughter into slavery and that an undead jewish carpenter is the savior of mankind. So the christians really like to do the whole pick and choose what they practice well holding the bible up and saying it is the word of god. Also the bible does not say to hate anyone for any reason. So dont hate the gay guy or the guy who sells his daughter into slavery.

reply to post by Parabol


In a nutshell, if Christians follow what the scripture says, then they shouldn't hate any group. They are however supposed to hate sin(i.e. love the sinner, but hate the sin). According to scripture, every human being has a sinful nature, and is imperfect from birth. Every human has certain behaviors that they're more susceptible to, so the argument that "I was born this way," doesn't really mitigate that fact. God's grace and forgiveness is the difference, as no one can live a sin free life.

reply to post by Annee

Who are we to determine - the qualities of the homosexual makeup - were not by design?

Problem is you have to prove that there is a design and a god. From the perspective of nature, there is no design being as how variation and therefore all evolution is driven by 'mistakes' or mutations. In point of fact, every single last gene in your body is a mutation of an older version, ever single one. Reproduction is pretty fickle, so many things can go awry and it seems non-heterosexuality is one of them.