The Christians hating gays contradiction

Originally posted by Toelint
Hmm, just thought I'd chime in. Here's a list of the ONLY countries who currently have a death penalty for homosexual activity. This is according to lesbianlife.org.

Iran
Mauritania
Saudi-Arabia
Sudan
United Arab Emirates
Yemen
Nigeria

That being said, I'd also like to add this, which is the closest I can find to a quote from jesus which might have someting to do with gayness. Actually, I think it has somthing to do with gays and the subject of marraigne and divorce..

Matthew 19:12

For there are some eunuchs, which were so born of their mother's womb, and there are some eunuchs which were made eunuchs of men, and there be eunuchs which made themselves eunuchs for the Kingdom Of Heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.





[edit on 25-1-2009 by Toelint]

Exactly, fun choice in those areas right if indeed it were a choice. I've spoken to a few gays from some of these countries and they literally fear for their life and their family.

Since coming out way back when I've only met one person whom has questioned where their being gay came from and that was the statistical person that was molested as a child. Of thousands I've met, I know of only one.

I've looked at that verse before and it looks like this...

Never attracted to women
castrated
clergy

reply to post by toochaos4u


Given the sparse evidence I can find online concerning gayness and Islam, but keeping in mind it is punishable by death in the above listed Islamic countires, can we safely say it is only in "Christian" countries the gays legally get a fair shake? And that perhaps it's because we are a Christian nation, Gays are allowed to, by law, party, protest, Print their own newspapers, have their own cable and satellite network, And now, legally marry?

[edit on 25-1-2009 by Toelint]

Who exactly is a Christian nation?

You aren't speaking of America are you? We are not a Christian nation.

Gays have rights because American believes (or should) believe and support equal rights for all.

what is wrong with love? we all love love!! right? i think that with more love in the world things would be better. but people get all picky on who your supposed to love you know? i think it is wrong to compare homosexuality to pedophilia or bestiality. esp pedophilia...i mean the the child doesnt enjoy what is being done to them and i'm sure they do not love the person like that. it is not consensual or the child doesnt understand what is happening to them. whereas gays love each other. they truly love each other and i think people should appreciate that. like i said, wouldn't we all like more love in the world? or are you going to put rules on love too?
also the thing that i dont agree with is trying to force your beliefs on other people. whether it is gays rubbing it in people's faces that they are gay or some whacky religion trying to rub it into others faces that what they are doing is wrong. i always joke with my cousin (who is a lesbian) Straight pride! hell yea! i am soooo straight. and what i dont think she realizes that not everyone needs to know your gay, just like not everyone needs to know i'm straight. i think it is quite sad that people need to show off what their beliefs or lifestyles are. just accept people for who they are! your human, i'm human...we both have lungs ears toes fingers arms whatever...we are the same! what does it matter what you believe, just as long as you got my back.
i think religion is the number 1 cause of hate. yes it teaches love and understanding. maybe not the religion..but the people who follow whatever faith. they are so blinded by what their god or bible says is right that when they see something different and its not what is said in the book then it is no good at all.
if there was no such thing as religion, maybe people wouldnt hate others for whatever reason
the thing is though, i believe in god. but i dont believe that god is just so hateful. i dont think he belongs to any one religion and goes by so many names to so many people. i always thought what if god just showed himself/herself to people in separate parts of the world in a way that they would understand. but it is the people who took it and twisted it..and made whatever god tried to teach a reason for fighting, war, and hate. people would die for what they believe in but is that what god really wants?

as for the bible, i think it was proven that a lot of the stuff in it was edited and re written by humans that it isnt even original anymore. the church got all power crazy and decided to control. i do separate church from god...because the church is run by humans who claim to be the voice of god. how old is the bible?...its frickin OLD! dont expect everything in there to be exactly what god said or told whoever to write it to say. DO expect it to be what humans wrote to control you. i think that is a FACT. the bible was twisted and re-edited over and over again by humans. i think if god had some handbook on how to be a good human or whatever...it would TOTALLY be different.
i think i am completely off subject, but that's just my thought on this whole thing. its what came to mind from reading what everybody else had to say. i think this whole argument is ridiculous and people should just go about loving and understanding one another. why is that so hard? why does everyone feel that they have to be right? as kids, i dont think it mattered to us what your religion was or what your skin color is...as long as you could frickin play with me! omg yes! a playmate! our parents taught us hate, our environment taught us hate. the generations before us placed their beliefs upon us. it is up to us to change for the better!
challenge yourself. in school we were just studying the Parable of the Good Samaritan or something like that, anyway. didnt the Samaritans and Jews hate each other? and what happened in that story? one helped the other. just to be nice! and what did jesus say? he was all like, and you should do likewise.

So, I'm curious about something, anyone care to explain it for me?

The Original sin. Why the hell do we have to be born pre-damned for someone else's screw up? It really doesn't make any sense to me. That would be like saying that I'm going to prison for my friend's murder, when they know it was him.

Alright, now that I've got that question out.
Are you seriously calling America a Christian nation? We may have been founded as a Christian nation, but now, that's easily laughable. We have Zen, Islam, every other religion, gays, and non religious folk(Smartest ones out there if you ask me.) So, if you think that we're a Christian nation, I suggest doing some serious research about that.

Originally posted by Kiltedninja

Are you seriously calling America a Christian nation? We may have been founded as a Christian nation, but now, that's easily laughable. We have Zen, Islam, every other religion, gays, and non religious folk(Smartest ones out there if you ask me.) So, if you think that we're a Christian nation, I suggest doing some serious research about that.

I know there are other threads on this - but we were not founded as a Christian nation.

We were founded on FREEDOM of belief. To be free to believe or not believe whatever is our choice.

As far as Original Sin - - I believe more along the realistic lines of a Federation of Planets and the prime directive. That real ET's broke the law - interacting and mating with humans. But that's kind of getting off topic.

What I can't comprehend is believing in some mystical being and causing hatred by literally accepting some ancient scripts translated by man. Propaganda at its finest.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Kiltedninja

Are you seriously calling America a Christian nation? We may have been founded as a Christian nation, but now, that's easily laughable. We have Zen, Islam, every other religion, gays, and non religious folk(Smartest ones out there if you ask me.) So, if you think that we're a Christian nation, I suggest doing some serious research about that.

I know there are other threads on this - but we were not founded as a Christian nation.

We were founded on FREEDOM of belief. To be free to believe or not believe whatever is our choice.

As far as Original Sin - - I believe more along the realistic lines of a Federation of Planets and the prime directive. That real ET's broke the law - interacting and mating with humans. But that's kind of getting off topic.

What I can't comprehend is believing in some mystical being and causing hatred by literally accepting some ancient scripts translated by man. Propaganda at its finest.

I see, then I guess I was a bit off there.
I can't figure that one out either.

In Genesis 18, God informs Abraham that he plans to destroy the city of Sodom because of its wickedness. Abraham pleads with God not to destroy Sodom, and God agrees that he would not destroy the city if there were 50 righteous people in it, then 45, then 30, then 20, or even ten righteous people. The Lord's two angels found only four righteous people living in Sodom, including Abraham's nephew Lot and his wife and two youngest daughters. Consequently, God destroyed the city.

In the Tanach version, Genesis19:4-5, the final episode in the story of Sodom is described as the angels visit Lot to warn him to flee:

When they had not yet retired, and the people of the city, the people of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, the entire populace from every end [of the city]. And they called to Lot and said to him, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, and let us know them."

Lot refused to give the visiting angels to the inhabitants of Sodom. He offered them his two daughters instead, but the people refused. The men were struck with blindness, allowing Lot and his family, who were then instructed to leave the city, to escape. As they made their escape the angels commanded that Lot and his family not look back under any circumstance. However as Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed with fire and brimstone by God, Lot's wife looked back longingly at the city, and she was instantly transformed into a pillar of salt.

In Ezekiel 16:48-50 God compares Jerusalem to Sodom, saying "Sodom never did what you and your daughters have done." He explains that the sin of Sodom was that "She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were
haughty and did detestable things before me.

The wages of sin are death.

reply to post by Toelint


Actually this area had it right with many native tribes describing gays at the time as being "two spirits" possessing the souls of both men and women. It was the Christians that took that away along with the land etc.

I was giving the view that even under the threat of death people are still in fact gay and not making frivolous choices about their life. All the Abrahamic religions are violent so I do understand their death penalty. I would dare say many Christians would kill us on the spot if they didn't fear imprisonment.

Those things came about not because of Christians but, many years of fighting against Christians for those things that others take for granted. I personally have lost jobs due to Christians mouthing off about not wanting to work with a gay person. I am in South Carolina here are the laws still on the books and sometimes enforced against gays.

Having gay sex even consensual a requirement is made to have an AIDS test.

10 years in prison or 10,000 fine for having sex even within one's own home if it is within 100 ft from a school.

5 years in prison for any person (gay or straight) to have sex with a mouth or anus.

Be listed in the sex offender registry if it is known.

No help if people bother you on the job since being harassed at work over being gay legally doesn't exist.

Yes, list the things you view as negative about gays. We all like to party,protest, we all have our own newspaper too! If anything I would love to just not be bothered. I have done many of the good deeds that Christians themselves should be aspiring for but, that is not enough. Regardless of state law I have pretty much married for years. Legally marrying in South Carolina will be well beyond my lifetime as everything is nearly 50 years behind everywhere else.

I've never heard we were a Christian nation. Churches preach that but... I thought we were a Republic not a Theocracy.


[edit on 30/1/2009 by toochaos4u]

reply to post by Annee


Did I say America was a Christian nation? I suppose it's unfair for me to call the above listed nations Muslim? Go here and check out this map.

en.wikipedia.org...

And note...I repeat...NOTE...which nations have the heaviest penalties for gayness. (heads up...they aren't Christian nations).

reply to post by Toelint


Acrtually, I DID call America a "Christian" nation, and for good reason. The vast majority of churchs in this country are Christian-based. That is simple arithmetic. But, that is beside this simple point.

America was NOT foundid on freedom of religion!! It was founded on the fact you will NOT go to prison for attending a church other than the Church of England, or for NOT paying taxes which support the Church of England. In those days, freedom of religion meant NOT doing things the Kings way!!


[edit on 1-2-2009 by Toelint]

Originally posted by Toelint
America was NOT foundid on freedom of religion!! It was founded on the fact you will NOT go to prison for attending a church other than the Church of England, or for NOT paying taxes which support the Church of England. In those days, freedom of religion meant NOT doing things the Kings way!!

Uh - that is freedom to pursue a belief without prosecution.

Freedom of and from religious rule.

Same thing explained in less words.
That's what happened above.

reply to post by Annee
Focus, people! You're argument is that Christians are hypocrits because they say "hate the sin, love the sinner." Fair enough, but where does your argument go when someone points out GAYS ARE EXECUTED BY LAW in Muslim nations?

Or should we argue these aren't really Muslim nations?



[edit on 5-2-2009 by Toelint]

Much of Islam is based on the ability to make a pilgrimage to the Holy Land once a year, so location matters a little more for them.
If I remember collectly, Jesus said that it doesn't matter who or where you are, and all that. He also said that we should love everyone, no matter what they've done, or did I imagine this when I read the bible? Obviously it's paraphrased, but I covered this gist of it I'm sure. So, if these are both true, could it not be said that Christians, in this nation that was founded partially on the Christian beliefs(I say this because our leaders at that time were mostly, if Not all Christian), are indeeed going against what is said by the bible by not loving the Gay community?

To go even farther, is it not also true, that the gays aren't doing their part by at least understanding the beliefs of the Christian folk? No relationship, platonic or romantic is made succeessful by one side doing all the work.

I just GOTTA ask this...

If america isn't a Christian nation, as the secularists claim, then who is to blame for ANY antigay laws on the books? And who is to blame for the downright heiness antigay laws on the books in, say, India which is Hindi? Nevermind the fact that most of Africa considers gayness worthy of lenghy prison sentences, life sentences, or death.

Also, what about nations which BOAST of being Christian, like say, Switzerland and Sweden, which all but ignore gayness altogether, not to mention half the nations of South America, which openly embrace Catholicism....and DO allow marriage or civil ceremonies for gays?

I guess my point is this. Stop bashing the Christians because somebody is of the opinion gays aren't getting a fair shake HERE. Personally, I defy them to find a NON-Christian country where they'll fair better.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


great post.. though most christians tend to blame gays for the destruction of sodom and gamora.. just as some evangelicals are blaming gays for the crap goin on today..

reply to post by Toelint


If america isn't a Christian nation, as the secularists claim, then who is to blame for ANY antigay laws on the books?

one of the reasons that america broke off from england was the fact that they were forced to worship god as the king ordred.. hence the idea of the seperation of church and state.. but that didnt stop the ideas of christianity from pushing its ideals on anyone else.. because despite not wanting to worship as the king demanded they still held the belief of the church and as far as the way gays are treated in africa..that is in part due to the fact of missionaries goin there and spreading the gays are abominations therory, there are still tribes there and other places that have no problem with samesex relations..heck i was watching a history channel episode where the tribe actually encouraged married couples to take on a same sex partner to add to the family unit..hmm the effects of the missionaries on tribal communities is quite evedent though most christians wont admit to this.. more than likley they will find ways to deny anything to do with it.. one of which is that our religion wouldnt do that because its about truth and love. and

reply to post by dooper


The hole there, is that being gay is NOT equal to murder. You could, theoretically, argue till you're blue in the face that your predisposition to murder was possibly not your fault, in the end you ended up taking a life, hurting someone.

Being gay is not the same. Sexual attraction and love between two people isn't harmful to anyone =P

~Gimpex