Topics like these only bring one name to my mind,


Ted Haggard!!!



[edit on 14-1-2009 by bignick]

[edit on 14-1-2009 by bignick]

lol... that was a good call..
this line is for the mods

I was raised Christian or my preferred term Assimilated.

As I matured - I took a side-step out of religiosity - - observing and evaluating the concept from a blank canvas.

Is it any wonder - my conclusion - how can anyone believe this?

As far as I'm concerned - if there is sin - it comes from the heart - - and has nothing to do with a biological birth right.

I firmly believe, that people are allowed to do whatever the F--k we please, because if we weren't, than America would be a much different place. Did God make it this way? No, we did, we as humans fought and died for our freedoms, we've done it dozens of times, soldiers, civilians, myself, police, everyone. We've helped others gain there freedom(Though I have my opinions about the Middle East) And was it God that brought this to us? No, we did. I think that if our ancestors have fought and died for us, then we should be able appreciate that by loving whom we please, be it man or woman, regardless of whether we are man or woman.

God gave us choice, we do abuse that freedom, but nothing else in this world matters a lick if we don't love each other, so I say love who you want. I am very partial towards the gay community, because they're going against what is generally accepted to do what they feel is right. Did it hurt sometimes? Yes, Did they care what any God may think? Probably at one time. Will it keep happening? Yes. So the moral of the story is, fight for what you love, and love the person you love, regardless of the damn consequences.

I was raised as a "Christian" and part of that was to LOVE somebody regardless... So for somebody to say I am a Christian, but I hate somebody because... Fill in the blank, is not even Christian. So what is really going on here? Who is twisting everything into hate? Houston we have a problem.

I think that's what we're trying to figure out here, is what makes these supposed Christians right in their hatred.

To the OP:

I didn't read any of the replies to this thread or what you put in your OP because I got as far as the headline of your thread and had to comment.

Your thread is flawed, beginning with the headline:

True Christians DO NOT hate people who are gay, they hate the sin itself. The whole point of Christianity is to love your fellow man and hate the sins they committ.

The sin is in not accepting people for who they are, and respecting them. Who they love is not your concern. If they're not violent and serving self as half this world seems to be, then they are not the problem. Its the prejudice and lack of respect for others that is. The reason we are so different, and there are so many variations in natural behaviors, needs, talents, abilities, even health, is that we can all grow and stretch our compassion, widen our understanding, learn to not judge, and respect others, paying attention to the things that really matter. Peoples sexual identity is a trait most are born with, therefore its God given. Stop judging others. This is what is expected, because God never makes a mistake. What is written in manuscripts is not as worthy as the person standing before you, and their right to be themselves, as they are born, as God made them.

First of all - no offense intended but you have some pretty strange logic. Just because you or I don't believe something, does that make it untrue? You say "I know there is a verse which says men shouldn't lay with men or something, but I personally don't agree with it. I think parts of the Bible like this are the work of men." Just because you don't believe it, that means God did not mean that....Yeah right. That is like me saying "The earth is flat, not round like most people say." So now because I believe the earth to be flat, it must be true.Ridiculous reasoning you would say!!! I could not agree more! You also can't pick a verse here or a verse there and say, OK, I believe this,,,,must be true....nope...don't agree, not applicable for today. Come on man, get real. Either take the whole Bible at face value and believe it without trying to make it fit to your beliefs or chuck the whole thing out the door. The choice is yours. No such thing as a semi-Christian!! Either you are a Christian or you aren't. PERIOD. Believing God exists does NOT make you a Christian! The Devil himself believes God exists!!

# Do you not believe in a genetic basis?
-Yes and no. Perhaps in addition to physical genetics there are also what I'd call spiritual genetics. So physically, no I don't believe that sexual orientation is a part of one's genetic code. Spiritually that doesn't mean a person is not born the way they are. In terms of Christianity I accept the premise that we are all born flawed by original sin. In this sense we are all born with our sins. I believe as part of my religion that homosexuality is a sin thus I believe homosexuals are in fact "born that way".

# Do you believe God creates people pre-damned?
See above. Yes, God creates everyone pre-damned (again Original Sin). If we were not pre-damned we would not need a redeemer which would really defeat the whole purpose of Christianity.

# Do you feel God gives you the right to judge?
Absolutely not. It's said multiple times in the bible that we are not to judge and specifies why we are not to judge. Many "Christians" miss the point of scripture, which is that it's a tool one can use to assess, gauge and adjust their own lives. It's never supposed to be used to point a finger at others and scripture itself tells us so in no uncertain terms. For example:

"Therefore you are without excuse, every man of you who passes judgment, for in that you judge one another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things." (Romans 2:1-2)

# Do you feel God hates gays, or anyone for that matter?
No God cannot hate. According to Christianity God is a perfect being. Hatred, being a sin, is simply a form of imperfection. My personal Christian philosophy is that hate is not so much the opposite of love as the total absence of love. In that sense, God cannot hate as He is among other things pure and total love. That said, God does have a total and unfaltering intolerance toward sin but that is not limited to homosexuality, it includes all sins no matter the degree; adultery, lying, theft, arrogance, etc. As a Christian I accept that we all wrestle with things and while those things are different for different people the degree to which we struggle is probably the same.

We are all born flawed. God challenges us to overcome our basic nature and be something greater. Whether our nature is to be homosexual or deceitful or easily addicted, or prone to cheating or whatever, the point is, Christian's believe that one can in fact overcome the flaws inherent to human nature but our belief is that we cannot do it by ourselves, only by accepting Christ's sacrifice and the fact that without it we are wholly irredeemable.

Hmm, just thought I'd chime in. Here's a list of the ONLY countries who currently have a death penalty for homosexual activity. This is according to lesbianlife.org.

Iran
Mauritania
Saudi-Arabia
Sudan
United Arab Emirates
Yemen
Nigeria

That being said, I'd also like to add this, which is the closest I can find to a quote from jesus which might have someting to do with gayness. Actually, I think it has somthing to do with gays and the subject of marraigne and divorce..

Matthew 19:12

For there are some eunuchs, which were so born of their mother's womb, and there are some eunuchs which were made eunuchs of men, and there be eunuchs which made themselves eunuchs for the Kingdom Of Heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.





[edit on 25-1-2009 by Toelint]