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Would you stop believing if Religion is a proven lie?

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posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 10:44 AM
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Man you have to love the fact that ATS slogan is Deny Ignorance because it appears that it attracts ignorance by the millions. This OP said the Vatican made the Bible with books it choose. Well true enough for the Catholic Bible, but couldn't be more far from the truth concerning the Authorized King James Version. It's the difference between the Received texts and the Alexandrian texts.

People should read a book and get a clue before posting such nonsense as this. Although I must admit that the many ignorant posts like this prove the Authorize KJV Bibles prophecies for the End of Days pretty well. The attacks are on big time against the WORD of GOD.

I also find it hilarious that they would ask if proven untrue would we still believe, shouldn't this be directed at Evolutionary Religion? It has been disproved over and over and over and by some f the greatest known and most honored Scientists in the world, YET, look how many still buy into that fallacy of a religion.

Now my question for the OP, how would or can you disprove the Authorized KJV Bible? Give me your proof or your supposed proof please.




posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by Elisha4Yah

My question is this..why do people go to such great lengths to prove what is evident? When all I've done is nothing good, no great thing or work, I just opened The Bible and found the source of this earth, the heavens, the oceans and seas and every living creature and more than anything, I found an offering and gift of eternal life and it all cost me nothing and I never even had to leave my home.



Please tell me how The Bible is evident. And how did you find the source of this Earth, Heavens, Oceans, and eternal life by opening the Bible. You said you love God, and that's great, but if you answer me, please give me something else than feelings because they don't prove or disprove anything.
So my original question stands: if it's disproven, would you still believe?



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by AHostileMe
I think maybe people should stop being such religionphobes. And I am not religious. I'm just not afraid of religions.

There is nothing wrong with giving someone something to feel good about. I've seen religions pick people up off the streets, clean them up and turn them into productive members of society.

Some may argue that religious people tend to force their views upon others, but doesn't every group do so? This thread is a perfect example of such. The OP does not believe in religion and wishes everyone else to not believe also. We all still have free will to listen or not.

The only thing that needs to be corrected is to stop people with power from using religion to push an agenda. That's the problem, the power, not the religion.


First of all, this thread has been conducted with respect to everyone, and I wish to keep it that way. Nobody was a "religionphobe" as you call it.

Secondly, I never discouraged anyone from being religious, I really don't care if you believe in something or not, I'm just curious about what different people think. It would be silly at best, to think that I'm the antichrist willing to destroy every religion on earth... on this forum. I wonder where have I insinuated something like that, maybe you're sensible to this subject, in this case I would kindly ask to not be part of this thread because I don't want a "Holy war".

Off topic, but I agree with you, powerful people use religion to manipulate. Religion itself is not the fault. Unless it's a lie made by powerful people. Then it's as faulty as powerful people.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 11:08 AM
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Religion is a proven lie. All religions that have came about these days(Aside from a couple wacked out cults) were formed by a small group of men (In The Vatican),The Mother of Harlots.So your right when you say that religion is no is a proven lie,because they created this lie,them and their Father of Lies,Satan.Because this was his plan from the beginning.Christians are even divided now because he inherits the Churches and gives them their Denominations.Everything is a lie now, and this lie (Religion) was created purposely and for it to be as huge as it is now,for this Generation,because this is the Final Generation.And with this lie,the people of this world will welcome The AntiChrist,because he will teach that every man is God,just as Pope John Paul II and other Popes have,and not to mention the Great Deception that will occur,that will deceive everyone in the world,even the very elect.

Let go of whatever religion u may claim,even if it may be the title of Christianity,Jesus doesn't care what we call ourselves,as long as we TRULY BELIEVE,thats all that matters for us,to BELIEVE.

"To him that worketh(Godly Works/Witnessing) not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the
ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness (Rom. 4:5).

Not worshipping every Sunday (The False Sabbath created by the Roman Catholic Church) mindlessly and not dividing Truth for what it is.

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, RIGHTLY DIVIDING the word of truth. II Timothy 2:15"

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

We are at not at war with Flesh and Blood but with the Illuminati and Powers of Darkness.

“For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.” Ephesians 6:12

Alot of Propaganda on this site,and people blindly follow the leader,its time to wake up to the true,Truth.

ATS,please....let go of the Alien Propaganda that was created...as propaganda from the get go."Aliens" are not Aliens,and yes these "Aliens" are coming to this Earth,but they will not be who they say they are.God said during the Great Tribulation DEMONS WILL WALK THE EARTH....but in DECEPTION.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by theindependentjournal
Man you have to love the fact that ATS slogan is Deny Ignorance because it appears that it attracts ignorance by the millions. This OP said the Vatican made the Bible with books it choose. Well true enough for the Catholic Bible, but couldn't be more far from the truth concerning the Authorized King James Version. It's the difference between the Received texts and the Alexandrian texts.

People should read a book and get a clue before posting such nonsense as this. Although I must admit that the many ignorant posts like this prove the Authorize KJV Bibles prophecies for the End of Days pretty well. The attacks are on big time against the WORD of GOD.

I also find it hilarious that they would ask if proven untrue would we still believe, shouldn't this be directed at Evolutionary Religion? It has been disproved over and over and over and by some f the greatest known and most honored Scientists in the world, YET, look how many still buy into that fallacy of a religion.

Now my question for the OP, how would or can you disprove the Authorized KJV Bible? Give me your proof or your supposed proof please.


Well it was about time to get flamed, I guess.

1) Who authorized KJV??? How can you honestly believe that that version is true, when the other is "false"? Are you aware that Protestantism was a movement made by men, not by a Earth-walking-God?

2) I never attacked the Bible. Instead, you're attacking me with nonsense. The same way the Church burned people alive for thinking the world wasn't flat.
Hasn't it ever ocurred to you that God would be really angry for every atrocity commited in his name?

3) I have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about with evolutionary religion, but even in your zealotry you're giving me even more reasons to stand by my question: according to you, that religion was scientifically disproven, yet people still believe it. The question is: WOULD YO DO THE SAME??? It looks like...

4) I never said I had any proof disproving any religion. I only asked that, in the hypothetical case that any religion was disproved, people would still believe it or not. So please stop flaming and read better what I put in the OP.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 11:27 AM
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reply to post by seb2882
 


Yet you did not stop all the people who claimed that anyone who believes in religion to be of lesser intelligence than those who do not. You see, this whole thread invokes negative thoughts upon those who are religious.

And as to answering your question, well, it is impossilbe to prove something does not exist, especially if the questioned existence is of an invisible nature. Even if you say that you could prove that powerful people wrote these documents to control the people, well, how can that be proven? These documents were written hundreds and now thousands of years ago. We can not travel through time to see the origins of earth and humans, so therefore, everything is a theory and relies on faith.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 11:34 AM
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reply to post by AHostileMe
 


I believe posters have the power to defend themselves from attacks, as I'm doing with myself.
What you say may be true, perhaps today we can prove or disprove these things, but as someone said, what happens if one day we can travel to the past and see these things for ourselves? It's just an hypothetical question, and still some people took it as an insult, and made up the fact that I had the proof on why religions are lies, and things I NEVER SAID.

I understand religious people to be infuriated because they're constantly bashed in their beliefs, but honestly this thread has nothing to do with that and I don't need that bashing on myself. I just wanted to know the open-mindedness of people, religious or not.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 11:40 AM
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Ok, so in that manner, I would say I am very open-minded. I will tend to defend those who are religious, even though I practice no religion of my own. I'm just tired of seeing atheists who bash religious people.

There is no proof of god or no proof of no god. I claim to be agnostic, which to me, is the most open-minded approach.

Time travel may be able to answer some of the questions but not all of them. If we go to the time that Jesus existed and we see no Jesus anywhere, we could then discredit Christianity. But if we go back to the beginning of the planet and see evolution happen, this does not discredit the existence of god, because it could be argued that god created the rules that govern the creation of our planet. So time travel may or may not answer some religions.

[edit on 4-11-2008 by AHostileMe]



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by prevenge
 

And what if when in the future man does find a way to discover the beginning of all. Won't you be surprised to find that God really is there after all. Your question could have another answer that you do not want to believe.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 12:53 PM
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Yap, you can't disprove my "religion". My "god" is Nothing. Prove that nothing exists and you prove that you are no thing, either.

Well, hmm, if I am something and I worship Nothing...life is always good, let's say
No thing really is a matter or has a decisive effect, basically. Like Zen Bhuddism...ya, well that's a slow way to enlightenment - painfully slow. I opted for the Nothing method because that is all that will be left of us in a few billion years anyways.

Someday there will no pain, emotion, sin, deceit, envy, wrath, murder, etc. I like that and I hope if there is a god he will grant me the gift to no longer be. If god is real and since I asked for it I will get it, right? But, we'll see huh?

Ninjitsu is a neat ART to study in that regard. Shintu absolutism is bascially my god - to die, as all things do. Stars, solar systems, animals (I get the energy/matter paradox in that you can't destroy what you didn't Create and some of the implications of that)...ways of life and even whatever we consider evil will die. That is why we live and that is why we believe. Fearing our mortality or the end of it is worthless to our well being here and does EVIL as such...

Ya, neat thread sorry for the rant!



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by seb2882
reply to post by doctorex
 


I'll read this paper later, but if it contains biblical prophecies it won't ring a bell on me, because if you read what I wrote, the Bible itself and its history it's filled with discrepancies and gray areas.
Sadly, the same things are said about Nostradamus, which supposedly prophetiziced a lot of things including 9/11, Hitler, and so on.
If I have some free time I can give you an example: I can too write a prophecy that will be fullfilled sometime. All I have to do is to be creative, ambiguous enough and get it published. So from that moment on, 'till the end of mankind, it's very likely that someone will read that and say "look, this guy was right, it's happening now!"


People see contradictions in the Bible when they don't understand what is being written, or the contradictions are in the doctrines of religious institutions that are not entirely based on scripture. Nostradamus has had many false prophecies, and yes you could probably write a couple of prophecies that would come true, but you could not write hundreds of them, have them fulfilled perfectly, with no errors, if it were not from God. Biblical prophecy is not ambiguous, since they keys to what some would call ambiguity and symbolism can be found elsewhere in the Bible.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by oswald roswell
religion can never be "disproven". you can't "prove" that something does not exist.


Well, what if it turns out that all of this is fake, that you're within the matrix, and your creators are some higher life form that raises humans for food and amusement?

Today's religion worships the creator of this realm. What if a real higher religion came along which is different from anything we have today which could be proven true which thus disproves what ya'll have today?

What if some 4 legged 4 eyed hairy bigfoot creature showed up one day proclaiming to be the real deal omnipotent-creator/savior/whatever and could prove it? Would folks still cling to their man-made dogma and make-believe gods and reject the proven real one?



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 02:17 PM
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Divino - my thought would be "Whatever, what do you want?" Well, after I was done getting a good look at it.

And people would say it is such and such from so and so prophecy... meh, kind of a moot point unless it gives us something like telepathy or teleportation or like amazing thing.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 02:33 PM
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I don't believe in religion - I believe in Yeshua - His Father and the Holy Spirit -
religion simply means repetative ritual...which Yeshua spoke against...

religion is just as full of Pharisees now as it was when Yeshua walked the earth....so its not my thing -

that said there are things I do everyday -Invite the Holy Spirit to renew my mind, read the word, pray, put on the full armor of God...make of that what you will .... I practice the Kiss principle - "Keep it simple stupid"....



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by seb2882
 


hmmmm.. this is just another attempt to get stars and flags...

or haven't you seen enough threads already on the board about this subject and you can't add to them an anyway.. but you MUST put a little bit more spin on it.. ??

wow..



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 03:30 PM
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I have taken about 8 years of theology and philosophy courses, and nothing will disprove what I have learned unless you can somehow debunk axiomatic truths about existence and our human experience. I often hear how religion supposedly controls and subjugates populations, but I just do not see the logic in that. You will always have ignorant people who don't want to break their chains of servitude- is religion their chain? If it is, explain that to the brilliant and loving Cistercian monks whom I have known for most of my life. One was an engineer on a nuclear sub, another has written world renowned books on Christianity, another knows at least 4 languages and is well-read. They are all intelligent, and they spend their lives in servitude, helping poor communities and people in need rise above their conditions. And yet this is a form of control - this I simply cannot fathom. Their teachings of love and acceptance are a form of control - this, too, I simply cannot fathom.
Religious fundamentalists, sure, have missed the mark. But so have spiritually dead scientists. I urge people to actually understand a religion's teachings before they decide to denounce it. Do not base your opinion on the actions of the ignorant masses, search for the truth by reading books and reflecting on your own experiences. You'll be surprised what you will find.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 03:36 PM
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Well the real question is... has religion ever really been proven as existing? Does anyone have proof that jesus was a real man? If so, do you have his fossilized bones? If not, than ANY story about him is merely that, a story. Without proof, you have nothing.

As far as demons, and satan and hell. I believe that was a metaphor , for what the evil in everyone is represented as. Heaven is the good in people. Hell is the bad in people. Everyone has both. Some more than others. It is just a metaphor. In my opinion of course.

Im a firm believer that whatever you believe in, is what will happen in your life. For example, ghosts and demons. If your catholic, you get a priest to bless your home. If you are in asia, you put out gifts for the spirits in order to make them pleased and go away. If you are a shaman, you cleanse the home with sage or cedar.

All forms are effective. Why? Because, the person getting the ritual done believes in it. Everything comes down to your own individual belief.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by Komodo
 


This post is very specific, it would be off topic on most existing threads and I haven't seen this question asked before the way I ask it.
But you got me! It's all for the glory of stars and flags, so I can beat the other kids on the block.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by Viral
I have taken about 8 years of theology and philosophy courses, and nothing will disprove what I have learned unless you can somehow debunk axiomatic truths about existence and our human experience. I often hear how religion supposedly controls and subjugates populations, but I just do not see the logic in that. You will always have ignorant people who don't want to break their chains of servitude- is religion their chain? If it is, explain that to the brilliant and loving Cistercian monks whom I have known for most of my life. One was an engineer on a nuclear sub, another has written world renowned books on Christianity, another knows at least 4 languages and is well-read. They are all intelligent, and they spend their lives in servitude, helping poor communities and people in need rise above their conditions. And yet this is a form of control - this I simply cannot fathom. Their teachings of love and acceptance are a form of control - this, too, I simply cannot fathom.
Religious fundamentalists, sure, have missed the mark. But so have spiritually dead scientists. I urge people to actually understand a religion's teachings before they decide to denounce it. Do not base your opinion on the actions of the ignorant masses, search for the truth by reading books and reflecting on your own experiences. You'll be surprised what you will find.


Of course there are enlightened people, there are lots of religious and non-religious people who do good deeds, but the thing is precisely what you're asking not to look at: the ignorant masses, which are easily controlled: see for instance in ancient times, how people respected their King because it was God sent. If that's true, great! But if it's not, those guys just had quite the life on the expense of millions breaking their backs everyday.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 04:23 PM
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Anyone who says there is no God is saying they know everything about the Universe. Anyone here know somebody who knows everything about the Universe?

You could prove a particular belief system to be false, but to prove there is no God is not possible.



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