Would you stop believing if Religion is a proven lie?

Originally posted by 12.21.12

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by 12.21.12

 

Hahahaha! Thats because when you die you will realize what a waste of time it was!

or I will be in heaven waving at you as you sit in hell....

Guess it could turn out many ways.

Guess you would have to convince me that hell exists then.

We ARE in Hell.


let's change it into Heaven!!!! YAAAAAAAAAY!
/queue giggling children and chirping birds sound effect///

no seriously...

lets.


-

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by cancerian42

 

late but I will try a few more.

Do you own a gun or do trust the police will be there to protect you?

When you are driving, do you trust those around you to drive as carefully as you?

Do you trust doctors when they give you medicine? Especially medicine that is relatively new.

There are many examples where we trust certain persons or entities without thinking twice.

No, No
No
No
Wow, you just made me realize that I don't give trust very easily, but I'm okay with that.

There's many things proven by men on a daily basis that I don't believe.
Unless God says so, I will never believe man on something so important to me, but without it, empowers him .

Most religions are lies, crafted to get market share of a captive "customer" base, much like many scientific studies, designed to keep the good ol grant money coming in. However the faith in God and the appreciation for what he stands for is another thing, and by no deed of a man, can be undone to the truly faithful.

There are billions of people that won't believe such proof.

reply to post by jam321


So then, under this hypothetical scenario, would you also adopt other religious and spiritual bibles and doctrine to help guide a moral life? Since you are saying The Bible still contains relevant moral ideas regardless. Surely The Bhagavad Gita does as well, as an example.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


I have notice one thing about you, you keep people on their toes...

First of all, I am not saying I adopt anything. I am just saying that a lot of our laws are similar to the ones you find in the bible. But I would be open to learning and using other religious bibles etc.. to help improve oneself. It is up to government to decide what the laws should be and where those laws come from.

Originally posted by jam321
I would be open to learning and using other religious bibles etc.. to help improve oneself.

So you don't attend any church.
You believe the bible is a moral code.
And you are open to using other religious texts as moral code too.
Do you even believe that Jesus ever lived or was he just the main character in a symbolic fiction?
And if you do believe he lived, then what if you were proven wrong beyond a doubt? Would you still put your afterlife in his hands even though he didn't exist? Or would you simply accept that you were wrong to believe a lie?

Originally posted by seb2882
I believe the human mind needs to believe in something, anything, to cope with despair, hopelesness, or just things that go beyond its comprehension.

So my question to all believers is: would you stop believing in Organized/Widespread Religion if there was some way to disprove it beyond any reasonable doubt???
For instance: let's say that we can prove that Jesus, Mohammed, Buddah or whatever are all lies, fabricated by some elite who made up this figure just to get you under control... what would you do? Would you be angry? Would you still believe?

I've read a lot of posts that go like "In Enoch, God tells that... " as if the Bible is an undeniable truth, but I have yet to read why the Bible is an "undeniable truth" based on a very solid argument.
Even if God exists and it's exactly as depicted in the Bible, are you aware that this book has been manipulated over the centuries over and over, right? Are you aware that they took some books off and put some on, just because they (the Vatican) "liked them more"?

I'm not making this thread to get flamed, I just want to know how people think.
Personally, I believe that there's some higher being that pulls the strings, and have been a christian since a long time, but some events in my life made me question all these "undeniable" things and today I can honestly say that I don't know whether this things are true or not, surely there are a lot of incongruences and the ones I've mentioned are just a few of them. I won't blindly follow some doctrine just because it gives me some comfort, specially if I may have been lied to in order to benefit others... but what about you?

I have

and it has



just my humble opinion

It doesn't matter if it's a lie or not. The only thing you will be able to prove as being false are the idols. Which is not even the important part of it.

The truth is not the idol, the truth is only carried by the idol. If you focus on the idol, then you do not see the truth, and you will be controlled by the symbolism of that idol. If you realize the idol was not the important thing, but the message, then you will not be controlled. Really it's that simple.

You know where symbols get their power? From people who worship the images. The church has proven this in history time and time again when it goes against the teachings and truth carried by the idol, by putting all the focus on the idol itself.

The bible and religion when it focuses on the idols is and has shown to be bad/evil etc. But when you understand the message, then it's a totally different book.

How many people worship the US flag without having a clue what the constitution actually says, or understanding the form of government? Is that point of view not pushed and called patriotic by the mainstream? And what of the people who actually stand up for the constitution and the things the flag is supposed to represent?

So tell me. Is the flag what made America great and needs to be worshiped, or was it the principles and the constitution this country was founded on?

As such, is it Jesus or any other religious idol that needs to be worshiped and followed, or is the principles and understandings they taught and carried that are important?

If you see someone putting down things like gay marriage, wanting to go to war, judging people etc. They are not Christians. They are just people who use the idol/symbolism for power.

You know what gives symbols their power? The people who worship them. Look at the power the cross has. Why? Because people follow and worship that cross. If you have the cross, then you must be "Good" in these peoples eyes. And don't think you are on another boat if you think it's "Bad", you're just on the other side of the coin, because you also are focusing on the image. No different than if you put down the US flag because of the things people have done in it's name.

As I don't worship the idol, but the message/truth, it would not matter at all to me if you proved without a doubt Jesus was fake and it never happened. Because the understandings contained within are the actual truth, and you won't be proving that wrong by proving the idol wrong.

reply to post by badmedia


I like how you think of it. If only all religious people realized that it is just a message, but no, they worship the image and the message blows completely over their heads.

You would have to give me more than one post and many long hours of you time for me to share with you in depth the reasons I believe in the infallible Word of God, but because I know that is an unreasonable feat to ask a person I'll give you my reasons in short why not even the gates of hell can prevail against the absolute love I have for our Creator.

His Son; which is His Word laid down at the feet of every living creature. His Word which has withstood every test of time for thousands of years. Kingdoms come and they rise and they fall and man's life is a mere vapour in the midst of God's time line..but with every passing fad and every new generation and every new belief and even some old one's drug out, there is but one that has never changed and withstood and that is The Word of Yahweh.

Many men have tried to prove there is no God; and many such men have spent their entire lives pursuing every resource available within man's grasp to disprove the Bible and all have failed...every single one of them, failed. Why? Because the more a person seeks to disprove our God; the more the person finds Him and has to resort to other methods and angles and directions and areas..there is no escape, they've even sought to leave earth in search of stars, moon, planets and galaxies, but God is there as well, men have dug so deep within the earth seeking out anything that might prove there is no God, only to find evidence there as well and men have dove as deep as they can in the oceans to find one piece of proof to bring to surface that there is no God..only to return empty handed.

My question is this..why do people go to such great lengths to prove what is evident? When all I've done is nothing good, no great thing or work, I just opened The Bible and found the source of this earth, the heavens, the oceans and seas and every living creature and more than anything, I found an offering and gift of eternal life and it all cost me nothing and I never even had to leave my home.

Originally posted by seb2882
I believe the human mind needs to believe in something, anything, to cope with despair, hopelesness, or just things that go beyond its comprehension.

So my question to all believers is: would you stop believing in Organized/Widespread Religion if there was some way to disprove it beyond any reasonable doubt???
For instance: let's say that we can prove that Jesus, Mohammed, Buddah or whatever are all lies, fabricated by some elite who made up this figure just to get you under control... what would you do? Would you be angry? Would you still believe?

I've read a lot of posts that go like "In Enoch, God tells that... " as if the Bible is an undeniable truth, but I have yet to read why the Bible is an "undeniable truth" based on a very solid argument.
Even if God exists and it's exactly as depicted in the Bible, are you aware that this book has been manipulated over the centuries over and over, right? Are you aware that they took some books off and put some on, just because they (the Vatican) "liked them more"?

I'm not making this thread to get flamed, I just want to know how people think.
Personally, I believe that there's some higher being that pulls the strings, and have been a christian since a long time, but some events in my life made me question all these "undeniable" things and today I can honestly say that I don't know whether this things are true or not, surely there are a lot of incongruences and the ones I've mentioned are just a few of them. I won't blindly follow some doctrine just because it gives me some comfort, specially if I may have been lied to in order to benefit others... but what about you?

I am a Christian Deist and we do not believe in the Organized religions we see today.
en.wikipedia.org...
and only believe in the writing of the original bible written in Hebrew/Aramaic.
en.wikipedia.org...

Most Church's today use one of the many improperly and falsely translated copies.

The bible was written originally in Hebrew/Aramaic this was translated into Greek of the Greek orthodox church
and they changed it to fit there beliefs.

Then the Catholic Church translated it to Latin and then few but the priesthood could read and preach there version of the bible. and they changed it to fit there beliefs.

Then in 1534 Martin Luther translated the Latin bible to German and you have the first protestant bible the Luther Bible
and they formed a new church of course they changed it to fit there beliefs.
en.wikipedia.org...

The Luther Bible was then translated to English and became the king James bible
www.greatsite.com...
With another church and changes to fit there beliefs.

With all the different Church's and changes it now all most imposable to find what the original bible really said,

The closest you can come in a word for word translation of the Hebrew/Aramaic version to English by a linguist and not a bible scholar.

This would be the most unchanged and the closest to the true bible.

All of the Organized religions are a lie and use falsely written bibles to perpetrate there views there people and to use to force other to conform to there beliefs through laws .

Christian Deist being a unorganized religion using text from the original Hebrew/Aramaic bible are the closest to being true Christians.

We hold that a Deist has the right to view god in his own way whether they be gay , nudist or any other practice its up to them and god and we do not believe that as a Deist we should judge them in any way.



PS there are a number of Jewish Deist
and Mormon Deist (mostly excommunicated Mormons)
and i have even met a few Muslim deist but they have to keep it very secret from other Muslim sects who would kill them because of there form of Muslim deist beliefs

all of these Deist sects get along together just fine as we are all Deist






[edit on 4-11-2008 by ANNED]

reply to post by seb2882


Of course I would, but i stopped believeing in religion ages ago. It doesn't make sense to me, and I find religion to be very hateful and brainwashing. I won't set foot in a church again, nor will my kids ever set foot in a church. As to believing in God, i am uncertain if one exists anymore. I never felt a connection to God, or Jesus for that matter. I never felt a great presense in my life like most people describe, when i was a Christian I never felt like most christains are supposed to feel. i felt fear and hatred, and judgement, it wasn't the greatest feeling for me. Now that I am an adult, i don't have time for belief, I don't have time to pray, read a bible, meditate or astral project or anything your supposed to do in a religion. Who does have time to believe in something??? I don't!

You are kidding right?

Given that, and I'll paraphrase from Hebrews 11.x?, ‘Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things to come’! You’re talking about sheeple drugged and hooked on this opiate called Religion (and yes it includes those that try to fool themselves by subscribing to a more ‘pure’ version of the drug that they don’t get from a recognised dealer like Catholicism and use words like, “my divine soul”, “my own inner god”, “I am my own God”, “Higher power” etc etc).

These people will never admit to being fooled by essentially themselves for their entire life and their desperate clinging to their ‘Faith’ in the lie.

Thank you all for your replies.

I have to clarify a few things: first of all, I "messed" with Buddah because I was beign hypothetical, I didn't wanted this thread to become a Christian thread only. I really don't care very much of what Buddah or any religious figure has to say unless it's provable, which isn't, at least in our current state of evolution.

I made this thread because I'm starting to see that a lot of people is beggining to believe in UFO's almost in a mystical way, much like religions of old.
I believe in UFOs because I've seen UFOs, but this subject is being mystified to the point that it may become a new kind of "religion". So maybe we're witnessing how a new religion is created.

Like many posters, I believe in a superior entity, God, which has to have some logical explanation even if it's beyond our comprehension. Unfortunately, as I see it happening with UFOs, there are lots of greedy bastards who want to make money toying with people's beliefs, and when I see organized religions I can only see similarities between the two.

For instance Catholic church: They decide who's going to be a Saint and who's not. What the hell is that? Are they just creating "demi-gods" in front of our eyes, and people just fall for it? This is one of the many things I don't understand when religious people just blindly follow any church or other form of organized religion.

I wouldn't stop believiing in God because i know from personal experience that He's real.

It wouldnt' matter if religious institutions were proven false - I'd still believe God is real.

reply to post by doctorex


I'll read this paper later, but if it contains biblical prophecies it won't ring a bell on me, because if you read what I wrote, the Bible itself and its history it's filled with discrepancies and gray areas.
Sadly, the same things are said about Nostradamus, which supposedly prophetiziced a lot of things including 9/11, Hitler, and so on.
If I have some free time I can give you an example: I can too write a prophecy that will be fullfilled sometime. All I have to do is to be creative, ambiguous enough and get it published. So from that moment on, 'till the end of mankind, it's very likely that someone will read that and say "look, this guy was right, it's happening now!"

Originally posted by CosmicEgg

I'm not here to expound my discoveries or to preach my beliefs. I just wanted to point out that science demands and receives the same sort of devotion to practice and mindless defense that the church does. It is no less an organized religion. And it is unlikely that many people actually go through life as objectively as they like to think.

Just look at the debunkers here.

Interesting, it's true that there are "scientist zealots" everywhere. I wonder if half of these people just takes its time to study science and see if what they're been told is bogus. I don't think so!
Stanton Friedman said "why is it that people believe something just because a scientist said it?"
Scientist are working for big companies with agendas, so they too shape reality as they want.
One of the biggest grays on science is Tesla... check him out!

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by cancerian42

 

Good habit because it helps to keep me in check. It keeps me from being an alcoholic. Keeps me from losing my anger and doing something I may regret later. Keeps me from ridiculing people just because of the way they act or look. I feel like it gives me the motivation to be a good member of society. Keeps me away from drugs and bad influence. All of these these things and many similar ones is why I call it a good habit.

We are all just one step away from being in prison stripes especially when we don't control our anger.

[edit on 4-11-2008 by jam321]

Well I think it's great that you take it that way. It's great if it makes you feel good about yourself and gives you a path on life. As you said, it's a "good habit" for yourself, but that does not prove or disprove anything, I mean, you would still be religious even if it is disproven someday, so it's more like a life-philosophy than a religion in this case.

Originally posted by 12.21.12
Heres what Religion and other institutions have done for me.

Made me think that I was powerless.
Made me think that my problems were bigger than I am and that I must hand my problems over to a higheer power, because I had no control over them.

Sound familiar? I was court ordered to take AA classes. AA is just as much of a brainwashing cult as religion is.

Made me confused as to why One Nation Under God kills in the name of God.
Made me wonder how somebody could be born of a virgin and die on the cross and then rise again.

Then logic struck in and I called BS!

THANK GOD you weren't living in the middle ages... you would be roasting by now!

I think maybe people should stop being such religionphobes. And I am not religious. I'm just not afraid of religions.

There is nothing wrong with giving someone something to feel good about. I've seen religions pick people up off the streets, clean them up and turn them into productive members of society.

Some may argue that religious people tend to force their views upon others, but doesn't every group do so? This thread is a perfect example of such. The OP does not believe in religion and wishes everyone else to not believe also. We all still have free will to listen or not.

The only thing that needs to be corrected is to stop people with power from using religion to push an agenda. That's the problem, the power, not the religion.