School Clams Up on 'Gay' Pledge Cards Given to Kindergartners

Originally posted by fmcanarney
A link to where parents think like I do.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

You think that is the majority of parents? How many parents do you think are on the planet? Seriously, the posters that agree with you make up one majority only. They are the majority of people that post on ATS that think like you. That is all.

You said the majority of parents think like you.

Prove it, take it back, pretend I never called you on it, but for heaven's sake, please do not try to tell us that the people posting on one thread on ATS represents the majority of parents in the world or even the U.S.

Are you a parent, are you jezsu?
How long have you been a parent? If you are.

If you are not a parent, then you cannot pretend to even have the capacity to understand how a parent thinks.

You are merely sitting on the sidelines wasting oxygen about a subject you know nothing about.

No more than I as a man can ever have the capacity to understand what it is like to be pregnant.

I would state that parents think they are the primary educators of their children. Primary in terms of morals and values.

Schools primairly teach reading writing and math.


[edit on 14-11-2008 by fmcanarney]

Can you understand now why some parents take offense to their children being exposed to certain influences, including the aforementioned and homosexuality? When a parent shields their child from these influences from television, the internet, and music they tend to focus their attention on schools, where children are exposed to sexual information before leaving elementary school.

Originally posted by fmcanarney
Are you a parent, are you jezsu?
How long have you been a parent? If you are.

If you are not a parent, then you cannot pretend to even have the capacity to understand how a parent thinks.

You are merely sitting on the sidelines wasting oxygen about a subject you know nothing about.

I'm not a parent but I can understand EXACTLY how a (good) parent thinks.

They just what their children to be okay, to be happy...Period.

You brought something into this world, you feel responsible for it, and you want it to like existing.

And guess what...everyone is someone's child, even a gay guy.

And imagine how you would feel for your kid if he said he was gay, would you tell him to control his homo feelings and get with a girl? Would you try to give him drugs to change him?

OR

What you accept him...accept him for who he is, and love him?

Because that is my point, we should all have unconditional love for each other...just like a parent.

Unconditional love? What if I don't want my children to be hippies and demanded some sort of functionality and ambition from them? Heck, what if I wanted my children to be badasses with their hearts set on conquest and who commanded respect and servitude from those around them?

reply to post by Gamma79


You took the words right out of my mouth

reply to post by Jezus

I'm not a parent but I can understand EXACTLY how a (good) parent thinks.

No, sir, you cannot.

I still remember when my wife gave birth to our daughter. I walked into that delivery room a man with ambitions and dreams that centered around me and what I would accomplish in life. I held her hand (and have the fractures to prove it ) while my daughter was delivered. The nurse washed her off, and since my wife's blood pressure was spiking and she needed immediate care, handed the child to me.

There are no words to describe what I felt. You cannot understand, because I still cannot, even after a repeat performance with my son. I was holding in my hand this tiny little human that was a part of me. I had the honor of carrying her to the nursery and handing her to the nurse, and of being the one to show my mother and aunt their new granddaughter and great niece on the way.

My whole life changed in the space of maybe 100 yards. I no longer had ambitions for myself; I had ambitions for her. That little infant was the most important thing in the world to me, more important than my dreams, more important than my career, more important than my wife, and even more important than my own life. She still is, 17+ years later, and so is my son.

No man, no woman, no person can imagine in their wildest dreams what that is like until they experience it. I no longer had a house; I had a home. I had a legacy. I had a future that had nothing to do with me, and somehow that made it immeasurably brighter. There is nothing in this life I can do, nothing I can accomplish, nothing I can build or design or create that can even compare to what I had at that moment.

No, sir, you cannot understand. Perhaps one day you can, and when that day comes, you will understand this:

I will gladly lay my life down for either of my children, with no regret, no remorse, and a smile on my face. I assume every parent (or at least the vast majority) feel the same way. That's why they say the most dangerous animal is any mother protecting her cubs.

I pray no one, and no agenda, makes me that animal.

TheRedneck

hey Karlhungis shut up queer lover boy, quit raising your kids like fags!!!!!

Originally posted by Epinephrine
Unconditional love? What if I don't want my children to be hippies and demanded some sort of functionality and ambition from them? Heck, what if I wanted my children to be badasses with their hearts set on conquest and who commanded respect and servitude from those around them?

Well I guess I wouldn't care what you wanted...

oh great, you mean my 5 year old
will come home from school and ask me
"whats a lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender?"

just teach kids to be nice to others no matter what.

anyway, i will tell my kid that some men prefer to be with other
men, and thats very wrong, but we still have to treat them nice.

Originally posted by Epinephrine
Unconditional love? What if I don't want my children to be hippies and demanded some sort of functionality and ambition from them? Heck, what if I wanted my children to be badasses with their hearts set on conquest and who commanded respect and servitude from those around them?

Thank you very much for demonstrating what a complete waste of a thread you are. You have nothing intelligent to add and no real point to make. This thread has gone from the false claim of recruitment to a debate over whether or not being gay is ok, to how you should be free to do whatever you like as a parent.

Given your logic, what if you wanted to make love to your children, eat them for dinner, keep them in cages? It should all be acceptable since you are the parent and this is such a free country right? Or is there a line where you think someone else might know better than the parent?

Tell me, where is the line between you wanting to teach your kids to be thoughtless warmongers and say keeping your daughter in a closet for almost a decade so at 11 yrs old she has the physique and health of a dying 4 yr old? It is obviosuly in there right? So where do WE all draw that line in this country? At what point does that parent no longer get to do just anything they like simply for being the parents?

reply to post by angel of lightangelo


Thoughtless warmongers? Sex with children? Keeping girls locked in closets? What does any of this have to do with how I wanted to raise my children? I want my children to have the ambition and spirit of warriors and to acquire power and social dominance. I'd be thrilled if they conquered a nation or two but going out and thoughtlessly causing violence or war is just the behavior of degenerate hoodlums and I'd expect better of my children.

To be honest though, if my children don't show any psychic abilities and/or extraordinary mental abilities, I'll probably lose any emotional investment I have in them. In my eyes, a child that never exhibits precognition, never experiences poltergeist activity when upset, and never exhibits any other psychic talent or paranormal connection(i.e., alien abduction) would just be an epic disappointment and a failure to improve the human genetic stock.

Unconditional love, I think, can only be accomplished by those who feel they have achieved nothing in life and whose highest expectation for their children is the same or less. I don't think it can be used as part of the definition of a great parent nor can it's absence be associated with all manner of horrific abuses.

[edit on 15-11-2008 by Epinephrine]

well jezsu,
Thank you for telling me you are not a parent.
That frames your opinion rather well.

Parents are the persons who decide what moral and value their children subscribe to, especially at five years old.

And angel,
you are an extremist in terms of escalating a point someone makes to the ridiculous extreme. That is not rational discussion, and hints of drama production. How many children do you have?

The child protection services are filled with people who have no children who keep them selves busy telling those with children how to raise them.

reply to post by Epinephrine


You said that you should be able to parent ANY WAY YOU LIKE. You said that the parent has the ultimate say. While I agree that that sounds nice and all...there is a downside. So I was asking you to tell me where that line is between "I am the parent and can do whatever I want" and keeping your kid in a closet for 6 years.

You said it, you can be any kind of parent you like. Ok, then where does the line get drawn between your "any way you like" and sick crap like I mentioned.

Are you really saying that parents have the right to do anything they like with their children or is there a limit to what parents have the right to do to their own kids? It was a simple question in response to your statement. Apparently that is too much for people here at ATS.

Originally posted by angel of lightangelo
reply to post by Epinephrine

 

You said that you should be able to parent ANY WAY YOU LIKE. You said that the parent has the ultimate say. While I agree that that sounds nice and all...there is a downside. So I was asking you to tell me where that line is between "I am the parent and can do whatever I want" and keeping your kid in a closet for 6 years.

You said it, you can be any kind of parent you like. Ok, then where does the line get drawn between your "any way you like" and sick crap like I mentioned.

Are you really saying that parents have the right to do anything they like with their children or is there a limit to what parents have the right to do to their own kids? It was a simple question in response to your statement. Apparently that is too much for people here at ATS.

Remember this angelo, you are the poster who raised the "Sick Crap" in this thread, and have continued to push the issue to that extreme. The idea of this sick crap comes from your mind and your thoughts, and you did not exercize any restraint at choosing to not write it and post it. Then you expect other rational and reasonable adults to even pick up the theme that you vomited out of your head and discuss it?
You do not think with any idea other than drama as your goal.
What kind of reasoning, will you explain to me, causes you to spew this "SICK CRAP" out onto a post and be okay with it?

As far a drawing a line, that is some medicine that you need to take healthy doses of, draw the line within your own dramatic cranium. You are incapable of "drawing a line" within your own thoughts, speech and actions, so do not demand or expect others to do so until you yourself can do that.

Originally posted by fmcanarney

And angel,
you are an extremist in terms of escalating a point someone makes to the ridiculous extreme. That is not rational discussion, and hints of drama production. How many children do you have?

The child protection services are filled with people who have no children who keep them selves busy telling those with children how to raise them.

Yes, I brought up extremes. REAL extremes. Everything I mentioned is a real child that was rescued from real parents because they were REALLY being tortured and abused in such ways. Yes, they are the rare cases but does that make them any less real?

How about the baby that was put in a garbage bag and then slammed into the walls until it was jelly and broken bones because it would not stop crying?

This is my question, was that the parents right to do that? It was their kid after all right? You both keep saying that no one knows better than the parent. Does that mean that baby needed to be smashed to death against a wall inside a garbage bag or is it possible that some parents do NOT know best. Some parents do make poor decisions. Sometimes, someone else DOES know better.

I am just asking if you two can see beyond your perfect black and white statements into the real world where everything has shades of grey.

I gave you real examples and asked how your absoloute truths fit there. Both of you refused to actually answer and instead got hostile toward me for asking. I can only imagine how well that is going to work for you when your kids are teenagers.

Before you both get all upset and come attacking again, remember, I am just asking a question. You can try to answer it or ignore me but anything else will obviously be deflection. If neither of you can stand by your original statements, I suggest you rethink your stance before getting upset when someone throws a little bit of the real world into the mix to upset your applecart.

reply to post by angel of lightangelo


Well, what about teachers who sexually molest, torture, or murder their students? By whatever logic you use, does this not counter whatever point you're trying to make?

angelo,
I was a foster parent for ten years and I raised several children who were abused and neglected, and yes several of them had parental inflicted brain damage, fetal alcohol syndrome, cigar burns around their private parts to facilitate potty training.

In the ten years I had over one hundred children in my home as well as raising my own children.

So your extrene examples are moot to me, are you a parent, or a foster parent, or a social worker involved in those kinds of cases?

If not, then your drama comes from reading books and newspapers about the issue, not from real life experiences.

My comments come from real life, not from the sideline.
The line is when a crime is committed by a parent to their children.
That line when it is crossed must be enforced to protect the children.
So postulating that it being the parents right to raise their children how they see fit, does not include breaking the law. That is pretty black and white.

So do you have children?

Originally posted by Epinephrine
reply to post by angel of lightangelo

 

Well, what about teachers who sexually molest, torture, or murder their students? By whatever logic you use, does this not counter whatever point you're trying to make?

No, I never said that teachers should be able to do whatever they like to children did I?

You said that parents should be able to do whatever they wish.

I did not advocate such freedom for teachers or anyone else.

I asked you where the line gets drawn between parents being so perfect as to have carte blanche and the things I am discussing.

I simply asked a question and instead of answering you have continued to deflect. Got it, you cannot answer. Your logic is flawed, your statement did not hold up, give up.

reply to post by fmcanarney


Questioning my parental status? Instead of simply answering my question, the best you can do is remind everyone that what I am saying is true and then question me? I asked my question twice now. And two people have responded numerous times. I still have no answer to my question but I have to answer to you? That is not how it works. Sorry.