A question for our European and Aussie friends...Do you regret giving up your right to own firearms?, page 23

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 15 times

reply posted on 15-11-2008 @ 01:04 PM by Anonymous ATS

reply to post by PaddyInf

Yes, it is the other way around. Giving an honest citizen the opportunity to defend himself limits crime on his person and property. When that right is restricted the defense is lost. Criminales have no respect for laws, restricting the rights of everyone else makes them easier targets.

reply posted on 16-11-2008 @ 09:56 PM by HowlrunnerIV

Originally posted by dooper

Anyone whose ever lived in a society where every person is armed, will verify that the society rapidly becomes a very polite society. Deviants begin to rapidly drop faster than bird dookey in a downdraft.

Well I've lived in a such a society I can tell you that just isn't true. Crime goes up because every drunk moron with a 9mil thinks the solution to a dispute is to pull the trigger.

Armed societies are not polite societies. They are dangerous societies. They are usually less-developed socieities.

You want to live in a western? I don't. I don't enjoy having morons get out of their cars and point guns at me because I had the right of way and used it.

And that HAS happened to me.

That isn't polite.

It's unbeleivably #ing rude.

reply posted on 16-11-2008 @ 10:05 PM by dooper

reply to post by HowlrunnerIV

Armed societies are in fact polite societies.

Partially armed societies are where the punks break out a gun when "dissed."

reply posted on 16-11-2008 @ 10:20 PM by HowlrunnerIV

Those punks you are talking about are the security forces, the military, the gendarmerie, the police, the bodyguards...and that doesn't include the children of privilege.

Armed societies are not polite societies.

Armed societies are less-developed societies.

When society develops it puts away its guns and knives. Those are the toys of teenagers, not adults.

As I said. I've lived there. I live there now. They are slowly growing up. The people have burned their guns and the daily killings have stopped. But the elites and their enforcers still manage to off bystanders weekly.

As I said, I've had them get out of the car. These were not drug-dealing gang-bangers. These were off-duty public servants.

Guns don't breed good manners. Education does.

People aren't polite because they're scared, they're polite because they are secure. Guns do not secure you.

reply posted on 16-11-2008 @ 10:32 PM by dooper

reply to post by HowlrunnerIV

Sorry to disagree, but you'd be surprised at the manners suddenly invoked when looking down a barrel.

Personally, I always found more polite behavior with a gun and a smile than with a smile alone.

Some really furious badasses had a sudden change of heart.

Jerked my car door open to and as he stuck his head in, I put a .45 to his forehead and suggested, "you better think about it." It took him no time at all!

reply posted on 18-11-2008 @ 12:19 AM by HowlrunnerIV

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear...

When I was looking down the barrel of the gun I was not being polite, I was barely hanging on to my rage. Had I also been armed he would be dead. Because I actually know how to use a firearm correctly and he did not.

Had he not been armed he would not have had the balls to get out of his car.

I was not polite to him. I was blankfaced and non-engaging.

He was a rock ape with no manners of his own. He'd lost face and had to get it back. I was focussed on not giving him a reason to pull the trigger to prove that he was more powerful, potent, important and virile than me. I was not polite to him. His having a gun did not make me a more polite person. It made him a less polite person.

Clearly you have never had the interesting view of the muzzle of a loaded 9mil presented to you for your perusal.

reply posted on 18-11-2008 @ 06:13 AM by LoneWeasel

It's interesting reading all these arguments, especially the pro-gun arguments from those who have experienced or consider themselves to be at genuine risk from gun-wielding criminals on an ongoing basis.

I live in about the poorest central London district in the UK. Violent crime is as high there as it is anywhere in the city. I'm aware that gun crime exists too - indeed there have been three or four shootings within walking distance of my house in the last 12 months - all of them drugs related.

However.

I have never seen a gun outside of a museum or specialist shop. I don't know anyone who has. I don't know anyone who has been involved in gun-related crime. I don't know anyone who knows anyone who has. And perhaps most pertinently of all, I don't know anyone who would even consider the idea that their safety or security would be improved by owning one. I don't know anyone who rails against being deprived of their right to bear arms.

I have two friends from the US - one from New York and one from California. Both have been victims of gun crime.

Now, I don't claim these statistics to be scientific. But what I do consider to be a fact is this: the reason people in this country do not regret giving up their right to own firearms is not because they have been surpressed into believing guns are wrong by an over-zealous or oppressive government. It's because they feel safer without them, and they would laugh at the concept that their security would be improved if they all owned revolvers.

I do appreciate the role of cultural difference between the States and Europe on this issue, and that gun ownership is much more of an issue of a citizen's right than it is over here. But the reality is that for the vast majority of the population of the UK, the concept that we should all own guns is inconceivable. Do us the credit of not presuming we have all been brainwashed.

On all these sorts of threads I come back to the Eddie Izzard line: "It's said guns don't kill people, people kill people. But I think the guns help..."

LW

reply posted on 26-12-2008 @ 09:08 PM by civilized mammal

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by HowlrunnerIV

Sorry to disagree, but you'd be surprised at the manners suddenly invoked when looking down a barrel.
Personally, I always found more polite behavior with a gun and a smile than with a smile alone.
Some really furious badasses had a sudden change of heart.
Jerked my car door open to and as he stuck his head in, I put a .45 to his forehead and suggested, "you better think about it." It took him no time at all!

I'm starting to notice that the streets of Europe and Australia are indisputably quite A LOT safer than those of the US.
Usually a mere "Please sir/monsieur/Mein Herr, mind your manners!" suffices in remedying any rudeness.
How does this come about... an absence of firearms, perhaps?

reply posted on 15-9-2010 @ 04:42 AM by fog mountain

Originally posted by BlackOps719
reply to post by andy1033

Violence isnt native or unique to America. I hear of assualts and knife attacks and all sorts of violence taking place in other countries. These violent video games that you speak of are sold in all countries as far as I know, and most are produced outside of America as well.

Yes the US has a history of violence, but show me one major country that doesnt.

Hi there Blackops,
I'm an Aussie, and you are right of course, violence is no stranger to all Western countries and nearly all eastern (there is one tiny place that isn't, up in the Himalayas, but, it is also ture to say our pals the good ole USA has more than their fair share of gun violence.

However, if it is taken on a percentage basis of population, some Aussies might be surprised that we rank up fairly high too, for all sorts of violence, but, in my opinion, guns just make a violent action too easy and too quick.

Anyone can get a gun license in Oz, as long as you are not a crim, or a looney, however they gauge that?

What is not allowed is fully automatic weapons, no machine guns, no rapid fire pistols or rifles. The "Cockies" (Oz for rural farmers) were annoyed at having their auto- rifles taken off them, as in times of need when they need to kill a lot of animals, because of drought, it is quicker with an auto, of course.

But, we should not be so suspicious of our governments, if they do wrong, we can take them to court, of course, I realise in the USA there has been a steady stream of illegal activities by your government, including assassinations, so I understand your lack of trust.

The only probelm with guns is the people brandishing them, trouble is, they are usually crims in our country anyway.

I miss not having cracker night though, (fireworks) that REALLY gets my goat!

In closing, most people on the planet do not have the wisdom, talent, or insight to have a gun. Frankly, I'd disarm most in the world, particularly children, but I would allow weapons with one exceptione, gun clubs; join the club, buy a gun there and use it there, where it never leaves, then, to my mind, you could have any weapon you like, just as long as it doesn't come home with you!

Oh, and I should remind those who are slightly critical of America, that its origin, the right to bear arms, comes from a past in America where everyone needed to help defend their new country, (then the North against the South) and was an important aspect of America's history and development. But, these days, the massively over powerful US military more then compensates for defense of the nation, and her buddies, like us Aussies! (Remember that BlackOps, we are your mates, who fought (rightly or wrongly) alongside you in many wars over the last 100 years, so don't go buddying up with Indonesia again! (just joking...but ask what the West Papuans think of Indon)

Cheers matey,

fog

reply posted on 15-9-2010 @ 09:14 AM by LeftWingLarry

I could own a gun if I wanted one, but honestly I don't have the money or the need for one.

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