A question for our European and Aussie friends...Do you regret giving up your right to own firearms?

Excuse me Zindo

But I think you must do some brushing up in regards to your history, England stood alone against the might of the German Reich for two years before you were "duped" into joining in the fray.

btw.
After thinking a bit on the OP's question...If I ever "needed" a gun, I'm sure the local Black market would deliver!

Australian Here.

I thank you for your thoughts, but The Right To Bear Arms can bend over and take it from f**kin Crocodile Dundee.

In Australia we don't use guns and sh*t as much as Americans, and hey we have a hell of a lot less deaths. The other reason we don't need guns - we're not pussies, we fight we don't shoot eachother.

And hey if the world turns to sh*t and anarchy and we need guns, there's always the local Cop station to get a gun from.

Peace.

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
We have never been subjects of a ruling class regardless of how many here fear that we are owned.

Heh. You really believe that there is no ruling class in America? Honestly? Do you only see a see a ruling class if they happen to be wearing crowns or something?

If this election turns out to have the result so many see comming, those that have come here to tell us how barbaric we are for wanting to protect ourselves will see exactly how many Americans are not willing to knuckle under. Luckily, our politicians still fear the US citizen and should always remain so.

Yes, because the politicians and generals are really listening and really care what any of us think!

reply to post by BlackOps719


Hi,

here in Finland it has been relatively easy, even for a young person of no hunting persuasion to get a handgun - until the two school massacres in two years. Now the law will be made tougher - many have supported a total ban of handguns. I don't mind handguns as long as they stay at shooting galleries and under lock and key which is not going to be happening here, it seems.

I never had a gun, never felt I needed one. Never feared or thouht of a "violent revolt" as a possibility - we had one back in 1917, though.

Just my humble input, folks.

regs, MFAP

Legally held weaponry, in the form that exists in the US, would be a great thing for the UK.

In the UK we have some of the tightest gun legislation in the world- legislation was tightened after the horrific dunblane massacre- guess what has happened since, gun crime has exploded.........

Criminals use guns regardless of the legal position

reply to post by blueorder


Ohhhh brother, your gonna get in trouble now. Speaking the facts here doesn't play well with the Anti's!!! One idiot decided to commit an unspeakable act and the blessed PTB decide everybody is crazy and needs to pay for this cretins acts. Yup, makes perfect sense......to idiots!!
Zindo

Originally posted by ZindoDooneWe have never been subjects of a ruling class regardless of how many here fear that we are owned.

This just isn't true.

We can have all the guns in the world, but if we don't even know the situation that surrounds us, how useful will they be?

Guns may be useful, but information is the most powerful weapon.

reply to post by Jezus


That may well be true, but, if your facing some crazy that could not care one wit how much powerful information you have and he's shooting at you, all the words and powerful knowledge in the world ain't gonna help you much! Like I've said before, I chose to own and use firearms because I have the right to choose and nothing anyone says will change that!

Zindo

Originally posted by aliensexiststoplying
And hey if the world turns to sh*t and anarchy and we need guns, there's always the local Cop station to get a gun from.

Haven't you noticed over the past 20 years the change from small, open police stations to secured establishments ?

You cannot get in or out without being allowed, and that's just to the enquiries counter!

How can you get a gun (actually called a Firearm) when you can't get into where they are?

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
reply to post by Jezus

 

That may well be true, but, if your facing some crazy that could not care one wit how much powerful information you have and he's shooting at you, all the words and powerful knowledge in the world ain't gonna help you much! Like I've said before, I chose to own and use firearms because I have the right to choose and nothing anyone says will change that!

Zindo

that is just it - because there are fewer guns owned by people there are fewer guns falling into the hands of criminals. This means that it is more likely that a knife will be used in crime and not a gun.

knife atttacks are much more common in Australa than gun attacks and with a knife you cannot kill as many people is as short amount of time

Right, first of all I'm pro-choice as far as gun ownership is concerned. I believe that any firearm should be allowed. However I am also in favour of some sort of registration of ownership and the requirement of police checks.

Originally posted by ZindoDoone

...if your facing some crazy that could not care one wit how much powerful information you have and he's shooting at you, all the words and powerful knowledge in the world ain't gonna help you much!

The chances of being killed in the US with a firearm are approx 3.98 per 100'000 or thereabouts in any given year. This doesn't sound like much, but when you compare it with the UKs 0.15 per 100'000 (approx 1/26 the number of the US) you start to see that the unrestricted access to firearms does have an effect on numbers of firearms deaths. At its' basest level firearms registration with police checks will identify and reduce availability to many people who pose a danger to society.

Like I've said before, I chose to own and use firearms because I have the right to choose and nothing anyone says will change that!

I fully support your right to own firearms. I also fully support the right of the population as a whole to live in a safe environment. I would never suggest that firearms restrictions should be at the level of those in the UK, but I don't understand the fear of gun owners in the US of registration.

What problems should an individual have with the police doing a backround check on you before you own a firearm?

Originally posted by BlackOps719
reply to post by wayno

 

I dont think it equates to civility on your part, I think it stems from living in a bubble and being hidden away from the realities of the world.

I really, really hope you've have lived for some part of your life outside the United States. If not, I politely advise you to cease talking, right now.

Life in Uganda is dangerous,

Because Uganda is a warzone. You have heard of Josef Kony, right? You do know what his followers do, right? Does anybody do that in the US? No? Then why are you talking about it in the context of America's right to bear arms? The average Ugandans' right to bear arms would not have prevented this situation because Kony does not, has never and will never represent the Ugandan government.

life in El Salvador is dangerous,

Yes, because El Salvador is a post-conflict nation. Say, who engineered that conflict? Not to mention who deports their criminal gangs to El Salvador...

Violence and danger are a reality for a great portion of the world, hence they prepare for it, they speak of it, they do not fear it.

Yes, they do. They fear it every day of their lives. I live in a post-conflict country. You do not. You do not get to comment on this from your American point of view (That’s wrong, you do get to, but exercising said right only shows your ignorance). I strongly urge you not to filter their experience through your American goggles. Because you have no clue what these people have gone through, what they are going through or what they sincerely dream, wish, desire and fantasise about.

They dream of a day no-one has guns.

People who live in peaceful and passive countries do not get exposed to this sort of thing, therefore it is shocking and primitive to them. It offends their prim and proper sensibilities. A hard life hardens the soul and spirit, it takes extreme pressure to make a diamond.

Absolute crap from beginning to end.

But I ask you, which group is more likely to survive in the event of extreme violence breaking out...those who know it and are used to it or those who whimper at the thought of defending themselves or harming another?

Each will survive equally well. Those who know and are used to extreme violence are so traumatised by it that they can do nothing. They have no hope for the future, they have no belief system that allows them to save money for next week because they could be dead tomorrow.

As a short instructional guide, I suggest you watch Blood Diamond.

As for the rest of it, well...

Your entire post has proven that you know virtually nothing about the rest of the world you were so piously speaking of.

Travel, son, meet the people, speak to them, then comment on their experiences...from THEIR point of view. Not yours.

The point that I was making by using Uganda, El Salvador and other countries as an example was to show that the US is not the only dangerous place to live in. We do not corner the market on violence as some seem to believe. If you had bothered to read the entire conversation in which that statement was posted you would probably know that.

Secondly, I love the pretentiousness in your words in assuming that I have not traveled in other parts of the world. I have seen first hand how other cultures interact and I have spent months at a time in other countries. You speak as if you know me or where I have been in life. So far to date I have managed to visit over ten different countries. I have spoken with native people of other nations at length and I have heard their points of view on many topics. Strike 2 for you.


Lastly I am not your son nor do you know me on any meaningful level whatsoever, and I do not appreciate your tone or your choice of words. Perhaps you had best re-evaluate your own smug attitude and pious judgment and take the time to know who you are speaking with.




Edit to add: I have seen Blood Diamond...it sucked.

[edit on 11/5/08 by BlackOps719]

Your words made it clear what you do and do not know and what you have and have not learned. That you have travelled and still spout that garbage about peoples in conflict zones being "prepared" for violence and not fearing violence says a great deal.

My words made it clear from where I speak.

Your points about Uganda and El Salvador were wrong. These people do fear violence and they do not "prepare" for it. They are not "toughened" by their experiences (in some sort of Darwinist fantasy), they are traumatised by them, just as Australia was truamatised by Hoddle Street, Queen Street and Port Arthur. But where we were truamatised as a collective whole and can rapidly recover as a collective whole, they are traumatised as individuals and never recover. Talk to a Khmer Rouge survivor. You can find them in Long Beach or Lowell if you're actually interested in learning something.

Blood Diamond may have sucked. Doesn't make it any less true.

And, as I said, what Joseph Kony and the LRA are doing in northern Uganda cannot in any way compare to crime in the US.

I'll try to clear the record for those of you that don't know or understand the laws in the US.
1) In order to purchaes a firearm you must pass a back ground check by the FBI.
2) In order to carry a firearm in a State that allowes it, you must pass a trainning corse.
3) There are over 10,000 gun laws on the books now. Rangeing from how old you must be, to the type of firearm you can buy.

FACT The states with the strictest gun laws have the highest crime rates, such as New York, LA, and Washington. Therefore I don't believe laws are the solution. Our crime problems can be solved by simply enforcing the laws we have. If a criminal comments robbery and is sentenced to 20yr. in prison you don't let him out in 3yr. he should stay his full term. The justice system is much more to blame than the gun.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS

FACT The states with the strictest gun laws have the highest crime rates, such as New York, LA, and Washington. Therefore I don't believe laws are the solution.

Erm, these states have the strictest gun laws BECAUSE of the higher crime rate, not the other way round.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
I'll try to clear the record for those of you that don't know or understand the laws in the US.
1) In order to purchaes a firearm you must pass a back ground check by the FBI.

BS. Handguns can be same-day bought at gunshows with no background checks.

australia has firearms you can own a handgun i dont have a gun licence (so im not 100% on laws) but u can own oylmpic qualifing pistols semi automatic pistols i dont think u can bring home from a gun club and there always talking about abolishing them al together u can not own a automatic rifle (maybe in a gun club i dont think so after the martin bryan masacre we surenderd them ) so you can get bolt action winchestor ect. pump action shot guns you cant get ive heard some farmers can get court orderd one maybe. you cant own a cross bow in most states without a gun licence paint ball guns i think are confind to clubs aswell

should we have abolished them well stupid migrant shooting roberys and crazzy masacers are low in australia and if we had civil war in australia like stupid migrants wanting a stupid stupid state for their stupid belives would have a hard time seeing that people of colonising family ties (ie the rednecks of aust have guns ive met families who were part of previous wars defending aust and they have guns illegal ones even the holliest of cristians have illegal guns every man must have a land to give and one to protect

if you get caught with a hand gun in a car in nsw prepare to cop 2 yrs on the bottom if you have priors on violence or a migrant prepare to cop 3-4 yrs caz judges know migrants carring is usually mob related or stick up

reply to post by BlackOps719

Do you regret giving up your right to own firearms?

Yeah, Kevin07 is still trying to imagine buying a defence force for Australia.

One must always take in cultural differences. Here in the US, we never did put criminals in iron cages and let them rot for all to see. Barbaric? No, it was a requirement of the day, determined by a culture. We in the US never cut off heads as a means of execution. Barbaric? No. Again, a requirement of the day, determined by a culture.

Now if our deaths by guns are higher in the US than in other countries, one statistic is never entered into the equation. We have entire subcultures that deal heavy in drugs, and you'll note that in most large cities where the highest number of murders occur, it is almost always a drug-related murder or multiple murder.

Anyone whose ever lived in a society where every person is armed, will verify that the society rapidly becomes a very polite society. Deviants begin to rapidly drop faster than bird dookey in a downdraft.

Keep in mind, probably 90% of the violent crimes is committed by 2%-3% of a population. Kill them, and you reduce violent crime drastically.

Every year, five times more crimes are prevented here in the US with the use of firearms, than crimes are committed with firearms.

Hell, statistically, it's safer for Americans to face the Palestinians in Israel than walk the streets of London. That's because of recent British laws, the murder rate has soared, and criminals with guns in Britain has blossomed. You have a much shorter shoreline than the US, and can't keep guns out?

No, the fact is, you can't.

In the US, those states with easy carry laws have seen all violent crimes drastically reduced.

Go figure.