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Obama 2001 Redistribution of Wealth Audio Uncovered

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posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 05:56 PM
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Originally posted by Karlhungis
I am curious why so many republicans are so worried about this? Wealth is currently being redistributed from the working class to the upper class. Obama seems to want to give more to the middle class and below, by taxing the wealthy.

I don't understand why it is hunkey dorey to funnel the wealth to the rich, but it is blasphemy to even suggest the distribution of more of the money to the working people? It seems like an interesting double standard to me. What is really strange to me is that most of the people who are crying about it are people who would actually benefit from it. Most are using talking points that have been generated by people who would be hurt by it though.


How many times does this have to be said to be understood? When you tax the wealthy, they are going to make up for the money taken from them by cutting expenses in other ways.

In other words, take MONEY FROM the wealthy, and the wealthy will cut spending to make up the loss by taking JOBS FROM the middle class.

What good is that extra money taken from the wealthy and given to the middle class if I don't have a job? All I will be doing with that money given to me is paying my bills until I can find another job. The real worry is if the money runs out and I still haven't found anything. Then the middle class is screwed.




posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 05:58 PM
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For what its worth,
i mostly agree with Lucid , Avenginggecko and poet.

We have many socialized things: schools , polce , fire etc......so is not sooooo bad.

I don't think "trickle down economics" works as its been around for like 30 years while I'm still waiting for drips and dribbles. Even a little steam or mist would do.

The rich didn't get rich writing checks.

I can't believe some people cry about a few welfare frauds when its a drop in the ocean compared to money wasted on corporate welfare and crooked military contracts.

We just socialized the losses of a bunch of huge banks and such....??? whats that called?

Socialized losses and privatized profits. how nice.
Im not a polical science type nor an economist but I have a good sense of BS when i hear it.

just my almost 2 cents which is more than trickled down to me thus far



[edit on 27-10-2008 by clearlight808]

[edit on 27-10-2008 by clearlight808]



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by Karlhungis
I am curious why so many republicans are so worried about this? Wealth is currently being redistributed from the working class to the upper class. Obama seems to want to give more to the middle class and below, by taxing the wealthy.

I don't understand why it is hunkey dorey to funnel the wealth to the rich, but it is blasphemy to even suggest the distribution of more of the money to the working people? It seems like an interesting double standard to me. What is really strange to me is that most of the people who are crying about it are people who would actually benefit from it. Most are using talking points that have been generated by people who would be hurt by it though.

"Republicans" aren't worried about this. True Americans that understand what this nation was founded on are worried about this. This nation is NOT a socialist nation. Obama DOES NOT want to "give money to the middle class."

Obama wants to give tax cuts to 95% of the people, but only ~60-65% of Americans actually pay income taxes. What he will be doing is giving a free government check to 35-40% of people THAT DON'T EVEN PAY TAXES. Obama is BUYING votes by stealing your hard earned money and giving it out as a welfare check.

Obama's "tax policy" - if you can call it that; I call it government theft - is simply trickle-up poverty. Obama's tax policy will force businesses to lay off workers and move MORE production overseas to escape our absolutely blanketing capital gains taxes. Everything that is hurting in our economy, under a Barack Hussein Obama presidency, will be amplified greatly. Everything good about the American economic system - where someone can start with nothing and get rich off of hard work, sacrifice and good ideas - will be dragged through the mud.

You're not worried because you just don't understand.



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 06:07 PM
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This is ridiculous nonsense. This man is a Constitutional scholar. He was commenting on the fact that courts have no business redistributing wealth. He was actually arguing the exact opposite of what the disgraceful McCain smear campaign alleges. Do some research of your own instead of believing the sugary poisons fed to you.



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 06:10 PM
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reply to post by ChocoTaco369
 


You're right, I for one do not understand.

I do not understand how you can use that train of thought, and then not also use that train of thought while scrutinizing McCain's "redistribution" of taxpayers money to buy up the bad mortgages.

I do not understand how that act is not also then guilty of


stealing your hard earned money and giving it out as a welfare check.


So, how is it?

[edit on 27-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 06:17 PM
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You know, the problem with the "conservative" talking points on the economy is that so many people parrot them in the hopes that, one day, they too will be rich. And if they're rich, they don't want that mean old government taking away their hard-earned money!

So, let's see. According to the oft-cited statistic right now, about 95% of the people in the United States make less than $250k/year. However, when tax breaks come around, they're almost always given to the wealthy, those in the upper 1-2% of Americans. The "trickle down" idea would make sense if these people weren't allowed to offshore their business operations, if they had to reinvest that money back into the country and economy, but they don't. They either ship it overseas or horde it, and those at the bottom don't get anything. The rest of us are unable to get ahead, because there isn't any way to get ahead!

We can't all be star business owners, incredibly successful entrepreneurs with that amazing idea that nobody seemed to think of. We can't all find the cure for cancer, develop cold fusion, or do a number of these other extraordinary things. Many of us get by with menial jobs, doing what we can do to make ends meet because we're more concerned with taking care of ourselves and our families. The conservative point of view doesn't benefit us. It benefits the wealthy, and if we're good little worker bees, perhaps the wealthy will be gracious enough to bestow minimum wage jobs upon us.

So while so many of us lose our homes, are unable to buy food, or have to choose between food or health care, transportation or heating oil, the wealthy laugh at us, because they've convinced so many of us to do things for THEIR benefit, all believing it's ultimately for ours.

If you want to talk about wealth redistribution, what about inflation? What about $700 billion bailouts that go to banks so they can buy other banks and horde the money? What about tax breaks to the upper classes, all while the middle class gets taxed the same or more? If we're going to be redistributing wealth, I say let's put it out in the open, and have it benefit all of us, not just those who lie and cheat their way to the top so they can look down on the rest of us.

But, only in America is it considered foolish and stupid to put the health and happiness of your family and neighbors above the pursuit of wealth. Only in America can you be looked down upon for wanting everyone to have a good life, a fair chance, and the ability to just be happy. Only in America are you unpatriotic if you don't support the rich, and if you don't deride the poor.

If we're the wealthiest nation in the world, if we're the most free, the most evolved, the most enlightened, why do we have poverty? Why do we have classes? Why do we have to struggle to make ends meet? Because this nation doesn't exist to serve or support us, the people, but to support them, the American aristocracy. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

This country is long overdue for enlightenment. It's not going to happen with McCain and the Republicans. They're interested in preserving the status quo and their fortunes, not in ensuring that America is prosperous and happy for all her people.



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by sos37
How many times does this have to be said to be understood? When you tax the wealthy, they are going to make up for the money taken from them by cutting expenses in other ways.

In other words, take MONEY FROM the wealthy, and the wealthy will cut spending to make up the loss by taking JOBS FROM the middle class.



And how many times does it have to be said that trickle-down-economics has proven to be unrealistic in America time and again


But hey, wanna put some cash on whether or not you will be fired right after Obama becomes President?



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by Karlhungis
I am curious why so many republicans are so worried about this? Wealth is currently being redistributed from the working class to the upper class. Obama seems to want to give more to the middle class and below, by taxing the wealthy.

I don't understand why it is hunkey dorey to funnel the wealth to the rich, but it is blasphemy to even suggest the distribution of more of the money to the working people? It seems like an interesting double standard to me. What is really strange to me is that most of the people who are crying about it are people who would actually benefit from it. Most are using talking points that have been generated by people who would be hurt by it though.


Redistributing wealth to Executives and Wall Street are not Republican principles, they are Fascist (Corporate Socialist) ..

There is no Conservative Party anymore aside from the Constitution Party and Libertarian.

There is the Social Conservative Socialist Party or in other words (Fascist) Party IE Republican Party.



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by deathhasnosound

Originally posted by ashamedamerican
First off I would like to point out the FACT that some people (even here in this thread) talk about "poor" people like they are some kind of leech, or lower life form that deserves to be poor and suffer.

The choice was made for them, and against their will may I add, by the rich fascist pieces of human trash who are sucking the life out of this nation like vampires.


They made their own choice and now they are poor because of it.
Plenty examples out there where people have pulled themselves out of the gutter and decided to not be victims. Obama for one is a good example.


I can agree somewhat with both of these opinions. However, let me add that this government over the last several decades have slowly and increasingly added more and more toxins to the food and water supply... causing more people to be on medications. The only people who can afford to stay healthy are those with the money to afford better food and water filters to protect themselves from fluoride and the prescription drugs in the water. So the worse the economy becomes, the less money the middle class has. The less money they have, the more they have to rely on cheap, processed foods to feed their families. All that goes back to the "dumbing down of America". There are less and less people these days who can pick themselves up by the bootstraps and make something of themselves because the massive amount of chemicals they are exposed to are contributing to their apathy and their inability to focus. This rabbit hole goes way deeper than most people even know.



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 06:56 PM
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This needs to be said again and again. Trickle down economics is does not mean that the janitor or the guys lower on the totem pole in a business are going to get paid double than what that position would normally pay.

Trickle down economics simply means the more money the people have that create jobs will create more jobs because they will invest in more companies.

So in other words, that small start up that somebody is working for, or that rapidly expanding business that just got an injection of venture capital so they can hire more people, your witnessing trickle down economics.

Besides I didn't hear anybody complaining about trickle down economics when Clinton was in office. Also people are forgetting that Bush also inherited the Dot-com bubble that burst right at the end of Clinton's term. Trickle down economics and tax cuts got us out of that recession didn't it? It sure did.

Now what has made the economy bad is a combination of things such as the Community Reinvestment Act introduced and passed during a Carter administration, and given more teeth during the Clinton administration. Which lead to the deregulation of swaps. Then also during that, the fact that Greenspan lowered interest rates and kept them low for a lot longer than they should have.

Trickle down economics also got us out of a major recession during Carters term and brought down the interest rates and a whole lot more.

The problem is the government and neither McCain or Obama is a good choice, but if it has to be one of the two McCain is definitely the better choice.

Obama, as proof out of his own mouth, wants to drastically change America and not for the better.

Then also everybody is forgetting the war on poverty that has been going on since 1964, here is an analysis of that. So don't sit here and complain about how the republicans have been redistributing the wealth to the rich for the past 28 years.

www.humanevents.com...



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 07:07 PM
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I ran a business for 20 years. If the Fed doesn't tax you, the local and state will make up the difference. I paid, at last count, 7 kinds of taxes in a very small business that madea gross profit of well under $200,000 in even my best year. In 1989 I cut a clipping out of the local paper that showed that IBM, Xerox, and Chrysler paid NO TAXES that year. My company, therefore, paid MORE TAXES THAN IBM, XEROX, AND CHRYSLER COMBINED. So, when you think small business needs tax relief, you're right. The last big tax relief I had was under Reagan's 1986 tax reform. However, that was quickly trashed by the Clinton administration and never ever brought back again, even by the Bushes.
Back then, there was tax relief if your kids were working in the business, too.
NOT ANYMORE.
So, to me, Dems and Reps are the same now. I don't see either looking out for me. The Dems make a big deal out of the war cost of $50 billion a year, but the cumulative cost of their liberal attitudes toward illegal aliens is costing the US taxpayer over $380 billion per year.

Liberal: give money away for stupid reasons.
Conservative: spend money on important issues, and lose accountability of where the money went.

And what about that guy's book that proved that all income tax paid west of the Mississippi River was equal to the government waste?



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 07:26 PM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 


Let me rephrase that then. I believe only those working or proven to be unable to work should reap from society’s profit. Those who linger by the side wanting hand outs for free are on their own.

Also just because a few steal does not make it right nor does that mean that everyone should partake of such actions. That is part of the reasoning we are in the crapper now the greed and lack of morals and ethics in society as a whole. You can help your neighbors that will feed off of your kindness until you are bone dry and then they move on to another victim (friend) if you wish. I will help only those who need it not the bottom feeding scum I see sucking society dry now.

Socialism feeds those who do not try to feed themselves. Read the post in this thread about a guy I work with. That is someone I refuse to share my earnings with. He is satisfied living on nothing and then complaining what others have while not trying to make things better for himself. It is called motivation either you have it or you don’t. One feeds your family the other lets them get by. To clarify some more I do not believe someone flipping burgers should get paid what or more than an EMT. Nor do I think the average factory worker should get paid what a computer programmer does. This is about doing your job to get paid if you have worked to get to a higher paying class than you deserve to keep what you earn. Those who do not apply themselves will stay where they are at.

Raist



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by Raist
Socialism feeds those who do not try to feed themselves.


No.

In Socialism every one is a member of the working class, and they are fed because of it.

I personally do not agree that a computer programmer is of more importance than the construction worker. And I am a programmer


I do not think the scientist is more important then the janitor.

These jobs are all integral to society.

[edit on 27-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 07:34 PM
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reply to post by ashamedamerican
 


I never said anyone was inferior nor did I imply such. You are reading things into my post that are simply not there.

For the record I never said all are that way I said many. And there are quite a few that are more than happy to ruin things for those who need it. They need to be dropped from the programs that support them and forced to find another way to put food in the bellies. Maybe they can sell the 2K rims that are on their car or the $150 shoes on their feet. Maybe then they could learn to start spending money in a wiser way and get a real job that teaches them how to work at least an 8 hour day.

I am sick of the way of thinking that wants to give handouts to those who are more than able to fend for themselves. But that is okay after all it is not their choice it was forced on them. Yeah it is always someone else’s fault. It is that attitude that has taken away from what America was.

Raist



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 07:35 PM
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reply to post by Avenginggecko
 


Get off your high horse partner.

If you read my post you will see that those I have a problem with being on food stamps are those who I see standing in front of me buying a carton of smokes, a 12 pack of beer, and some lunchmeat for their very poorly dress child that is underweight while they themselves are wearing $100 dollar brand name shoes.

I am sick of see these people have satellite TV and cell phones all the while not working because they chose not to do so. I am well aware there are those who need welfare to get back on their feet (read that again if you must) but it most certainly should not be used to live on for years upon years.

And for the record I have never used either welfare or even unemployment. I found my ways to get food and shelter on my own when it came to it. Nor am I a Neo Con since you want to throw terms around when you have no clue where I stand. Both parties everyone seems to be so happy to bow to are corrupt and have stomped on the Constitution while people more than happily hand over their rights for the might chosen two.

Raist



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 


I never said construction worker. Most of them are contractors or their company is so they get paid nearly as much as a low level programmer anyway. I said factory worker and programmer and I work a factory (at least for now).

With the redistribution of wealth the spread the wealth plan you would be stealing from the construction worker to give to the burger flipper though. The construction worker (owner of the contractor company) gets paid over X number of dollars a year he will be taxed so that someone else can get some cash. Someone working a minimal amount to none at all. This will place more money into the social welfare programs (of course to get them off their feet yeah right) so that they can get some more game stations and high dollar shoes.

So yes it feeds those who do not try to feed themselves.

Again it is about motivation to try to do better in life or to be satisfied with getting by like many I see in my area.

Raist



Edit to add:
I want to add that both the Dems and the Reps are the reason we are in the place we are now. Both have ripped off the public and should be removed entirely from their places of office. But no one wants to believe that there is anything better than the two unholy parties.


[edit on 10/27/08 by Raist]



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 07:46 PM
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reply to post by Karlhungis
 



The reason it's not hunky dorey to me to "redistrbute" wealth is the fact that when people work and earn their money...when they go to college and make sacrifices...take out student loans and work to pay them back for years...move hundreds of miles away from home and family because that is where a good job opportunity presented itself...scrimped and saved during hard time to have money for times later in life...they should not have to give an even greater share of their money to people who didn't make these same choices and sacrifices. Many many Americans who are middle class, or even upper middle class, are in that section of society because of the choices regarding education and jobs and savings and they should not have to support to an even greater extent than they do now those people who made other choices. I always thought one of the greatest things about our nation is that if you dream big enough, invest in your education, work hard enough, make choices and yes...take chances...anyone can realize the American dream. It's not a good idea to then turn around and take an even bigger chunk of a person's income and penalize them for what they've achieved. I don't see why anyone...no matter how rich you are...should have to pay more than a third of what you make to the government. An awful lot of what is going on sounds like sour grapes to me and a way for people to try to get ahold of something they didn't earn...sorry, I earned mine and I should get to keep the majority of it. If someone else wants to have my life, then I would suggest doing what I do...EARN it...go to school, go to more school, go to even more school, work hard, make good choices, save for a rainy day and live within your means...that's what I think the American Dream is about.

That's my two-cents worth.



[edit on 27/10/2008 by xtradimensions]



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 07:48 PM
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I have had a change of heart, the Anglo in me is big enough for it; I have had a change of mind; the Racist in me always knew my bias was wrong; I am not just changing my party and vote, I am changing my mind about the potential future of America.

Ironically, I like the man more every time I heard him and I can't express the chill that went down my spine when I saw Henry Kissinger endorsing and speaking up for McCain but that was the final blow.

I am voting for Obama and the fact that I despise Palin and her type has nothing to do with anything.

Watch the Biographies on the candidates and it will open your eyes.

www.biography.com...

www.biography.com...



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 08:01 PM
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A lot of people are kicking and screaming, but has anybody done the math? Has anybody who will be affected by Obama's tax plan actually sat down figured out what their hit will be?

I'd like to see figures.



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by Raist
Again it is about motivation to try to do better in life or to be satisfied with getting by like many I see in my area.


I agree, it is about motivation.

I am motivated to improving every ones life. We just have different opinions as to how that is achieved.


Originally posted by Raist
So yes it feeds those who do not try to feed themselves.


One very important distinction needs to be made. I was addressing Socialism. Your examples are about 'socialistic' things in a Capitalist society. That is a huge difference.

[edit on 27-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]



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