Originally posted by Karlhungis
I am curious why so many republicans are so worried about this? Wealth is currently being redistributed from the working class to the upper class. Obama seems to want to give more to the middle class and below, by taxing the wealthy.

I don't understand why it is hunkey dorey to funnel the wealth to the rich, but it is blasphemy to even suggest the distribution of more of the money to the working people? It seems like an interesting double standard to me. What is really strange to me is that most of the people who are crying about it are people who would actually benefit from it. Most are using talking points that have been generated by people who would be hurt by it though.

How many times does this have to be said to be understood? When you tax the wealthy, they are going to make up for the money taken from them by cutting expenses in other ways.

In other words, take MONEY FROM the wealthy, and the wealthy will cut spending to make up the loss by taking JOBS FROM the middle class.

What good is that extra money taken from the wealthy and given to the middle class if I don't have a job? All I will be doing with that money given to me is paying my bills until I can find another job. The real worry is if the money runs out and I still haven't found anything. Then the middle class is screwed.

For what its worth,
i mostly agree with Lucid , Avenginggecko and poet.

We have many socialized things: schools , polce , fire etc......so is not sooooo bad.

I don't think "trickle down economics" works as its been around for like 30 years while I'm still waiting for drips and dribbles. Even a little steam or mist would do.

The rich didn't get rich writing checks.

I can't believe some people cry about a few welfare frauds when its a drop in the ocean compared to money wasted on corporate welfare and crooked military contracts.

We just socialized the losses of a bunch of huge banks and such....??? whats that called?

Socialized losses and privatized profits. how nice.
Im not a polical science type nor an economist but I have a good sense of BS when i hear it.

just my almost 2 cents which is more than trickled down to me thus far



[edit on 27-10-2008 by clearlight808]

[edit on 27-10-2008 by clearlight808]

Originally posted by Karlhungis
I am curious why so many republicans are so worried about this? Wealth is currently being redistributed from the working class to the upper class. Obama seems to want to give more to the middle class and below, by taxing the wealthy.

I don't understand why it is hunkey dorey to funnel the wealth to the rich, but it is blasphemy to even suggest the distribution of more of the money to the working people? It seems like an interesting double standard to me. What is really strange to me is that most of the people who are crying about it are people who would actually benefit from it. Most are using talking points that have been generated by people who would be hurt by it though.

"Republicans" aren't worried about this. True Americans that understand what this nation was founded on are worried about this. This nation is NOT a socialist nation. Obama DOES NOT want to "give money to the middle class."

Obama wants to give tax cuts to 95% of the people, but only ~60-65% of Americans actually pay income taxes. What he will be doing is giving a free government check to 35-40% of people THAT DON'T EVEN PAY TAXES. Obama is BUYING votes by stealing your hard earned money and giving it out as a welfare check.

Obama's "tax policy" - if you can call it that; I call it government theft - is simply trickle-up poverty. Obama's tax policy will force businesses to lay off workers and move MORE production overseas to escape our absolutely blanketing capital gains taxes. Everything that is hurting in our economy, under a Barack Hussein Obama presidency, will be amplified greatly. Everything good about the American economic system - where someone can start with nothing and get rich off of hard work, sacrifice and good ideas - will be dragged through the mud.

You're not worried because you just don't understand.

This is ridiculous nonsense. This man is a Constitutional scholar. He was commenting on the fact that courts have no business redistributing wealth. He was actually arguing the exact opposite of what the disgraceful McCain smear campaign alleges. Do some research of your own instead of believing the sugary poisons fed to you.

You know, the problem with the "conservative" talking points on the economy is that so many people parrot them in the hopes that, one day, they too will be rich. And if they're rich, they don't want that mean old government taking away their hard-earned money!

So, let's see. According to the oft-cited statistic right now, about 95% of the people in the United States make less than $250k/year. However, when tax breaks come around, they're almost always given to the wealthy, those in the upper 1-2% of Americans. The "trickle down" idea would make sense if these people weren't allowed to offshore their business operations, if they had to reinvest that money back into the country and economy, but they don't. They either ship it overseas or horde it, and those at the bottom don't get anything. The rest of us are unable to get ahead, because there isn't any way to get ahead!

We can't all be star business owners, incredibly successful entrepreneurs with that amazing idea that nobody seemed to think of. We can't all find the cure for cancer, develop cold fusion, or do a number of these other extraordinary things. Many of us get by with menial jobs, doing what we can do to make ends meet because we're more concerned with taking care of ourselves and our families. The conservative point of view doesn't benefit us. It benefits the wealthy, and if we're good little worker bees, perhaps the wealthy will be gracious enough to bestow minimum wage jobs upon us.

So while so many of us lose our homes, are unable to buy food, or have to choose between food or health care, transportation or heating oil, the wealthy laugh at us, because they've convinced so many of us to do things for THEIR benefit, all believing it's ultimately for ours.

If you want to talk about wealth redistribution, what about inflation? What about $700 billion bailouts that go to banks so they can buy other banks and horde the money? What about tax breaks to the upper classes, all while the middle class gets taxed the same or more? If we're going to be redistributing wealth, I say let's put it out in the open, and have it benefit all of us, not just those who lie and cheat their way to the top so they can look down on the rest of us.

But, only in America is it considered foolish and stupid to put the health and happiness of your family and neighbors above the pursuit of wealth. Only in America can you be looked down upon for wanting everyone to have a good life, a fair chance, and the ability to just be happy. Only in America are you unpatriotic if you don't support the rich, and if you don't deride the poor.

If we're the wealthiest nation in the world, if we're the most free, the most evolved, the most enlightened, why do we have poverty? Why do we have classes? Why do we have to struggle to make ends meet? Because this nation doesn't exist to serve or support us, the people, but to support them, the American aristocracy. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

This country is long overdue for enlightenment. It's not going to happen with McCain and the Republicans. They're interested in preserving the status quo and their fortunes, not in ensuring that America is prosperous and happy for all her people.

Originally posted by sos37
How many times does this have to be said to be understood? When you tax the wealthy, they are going to make up for the money taken from them by cutting expenses in other ways.

In other words, take MONEY FROM the wealthy, and the wealthy will cut spending to make up the loss by taking JOBS FROM the middle class.

And how many times does it have to be said that trickle-down-economics has proven to be unrealistic in America time and again

But hey, wanna put some cash on whether or not you will be fired right after Obama becomes President?

Originally posted by Karlhungis
I am curious why so many republicans are so worried about this? Wealth is currently being redistributed from the working class to the upper class. Obama seems to want to give more to the middle class and below, by taxing the wealthy.

I don't understand why it is hunkey dorey to funnel the wealth to the rich, but it is blasphemy to even suggest the distribution of more of the money to the working people? It seems like an interesting double standard to me. What is really strange to me is that most of the people who are crying about it are people who would actually benefit from it. Most are using talking points that have been generated by people who would be hurt by it though.

Redistributing wealth to Executives and Wall Street are not Republican principles, they are Fascist (Corporate Socialist) ..

There is no Conservative Party anymore aside from the Constitution Party and Libertarian.

There is the Social Conservative Socialist Party or in other words (Fascist) Party IE Republican Party.

Originally posted by deathhasnosound

Originally posted by ashamedamerican
First off I would like to point out the FACT that some people (even here in this thread) talk about "poor" people like they are some kind of leech, or lower life form that deserves to be poor and suffer.

The choice was made for them, and against their will may I add, by the rich fascist pieces of human trash who are sucking the life out of this nation like vampires.

They made their own choice and now they are poor because of it.
Plenty examples out there where people have pulled themselves out of the gutter and decided to not be victims. Obama for one is a good example.

I can agree somewhat with both of these opinions. However, let me add that this government over the last several decades have slowly and increasingly added more and more toxins to the food and water supply... causing more people to be on medications. The only people who can afford to stay healthy are those with the money to afford better food and water filters to protect themselves from fluoride and the prescription drugs in the water. So the worse the economy becomes, the less money the middle class has. The less money they have, the more they have to rely on cheap, processed foods to feed their families. All that goes back to the "dumbing down of America". There are less and less people these days who can pick themselves up by the bootstraps and make something of themselves because the massive amount of chemicals they are exposed to are contributing to their apathy and their inability to focus. This rabbit hole goes way deeper than most people even know.

I ran a business for 20 years. If the Fed doesn't tax you, the local and state will make up the difference. I paid, at last count, 7 kinds of taxes in a very small business that madea gross profit of well under $200,000 in even my best year. In 1989 I cut a clipping out of the local paper that showed that IBM, Xerox, and Chrysler paid NO TAXES that year. My company, therefore, paid MORE TAXES THAN IBM, XEROX, AND CHRYSLER COMBINED. So, when you think small business needs tax relief, you're right. The last big tax relief I had was under Reagan's 1986 tax reform. However, that was quickly trashed by the Clinton administration and never ever brought back again, even by the Bushes.
Back then, there was tax relief if your kids were working in the business, too.
NOT ANYMORE.
So, to me, Dems and Reps are the same now. I don't see either looking out for me. The Dems make a big deal out of the war cost of $50 billion a year, but the cumulative cost of their liberal attitudes toward illegal aliens is costing the US taxpayer over $380 billion per year.

Liberal: give money away for stupid reasons.
Conservative: spend money on important issues, and lose accountability of where the money went.

And what about that guy's book that proved that all income tax paid west of the Mississippi River was equal to the government waste?

Originally posted by Raist
Socialism feeds those who do not try to feed themselves.

No.

In Socialism every one is a member of the working class, and they are fed because of it.

I personally do not agree that a computer programmer is of more importance than the construction worker. And I am a programmer

I do not think the scientist is more important then the janitor.

These jobs are all integral to society.

[edit on 27-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

A lot of people are kicking and screaming, but has anybody done the math? Has anybody who will be affected by Obama's tax plan actually sat down figured out what their hit will be?

I'd like to see figures.

Originally posted by Raist
Again it is about motivation to try to do better in life or to be satisfied with getting by like many I see in my area.

I agree, it is about motivation.

I am motivated to improving every ones life. We just have different opinions as to how that is achieved.

Originally posted by Raist
So yes it feeds those who do not try to feed themselves.

One very important distinction needs to be made. I was addressing Socialism. Your examples are about 'socialistic' things in a Capitalist society. That is a huge difference.

[edit on 27-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]