Originally posted by midwestmama

Wake up people, before its too late.

I already have.

The People don't have the power.

Originally posted by sos37
How many times does this have to be said to be understood? When you tax the wealthy, they are going to make up for the money taken from them by cutting expenses in other ways.

In other words, take MONEY FROM the wealthy, and the wealthy will cut spending to make up the loss by taking JOBS FROM the middle class.

How many times does this have to be said to be understood? IT has nothing to do with taxing the worthless creeps, it has to do with slave labor overseas. WE STILL (but not much longer) have the most buying power in the world. BEFORE we lose that buying power we need to even the playing field by getting rid of NAFTA while we still have enough buying power to make the greedy bastards bring the factories back. Taxing them slightly more will not deter them they are already outsourcing China to places like Vietnam because we have free trade and will take any cheap goods.

Get rid of NAFTA raise the tariffs on imports and the jobs come back. Wait until we lose enough of our buying power (that is coming soon) and we lose that window of opportunity. Listen to your heart and soul not your corporate mass media brainwashed mind.

I have been on unemployment.....once. Why? The company i worked for moved to mexico. What for? Lower taxes....lower salaries.

I was guaranteed 2 years of unemployment because of this. Yes, 2 years. There was even a program that would help pay for you to go to college...it's a provision that the government can allow if you are left unemployed by an employer leaving the country.

How long was i on unemployment? 4 months. The first week...i thought hey...this is kind of nice..no work...free check. The second week...started to get bored. The third week i felt like a damn loser because i was bum sitting on my ass doing nothing and gaining nothing. What did i have to do? Had to move in with family. Wasn't the greatest time of my life to say the least. But eventually i did get a job. IF people try hard enough they will get one. It's a sucky process, and for those who care about not being unemployed...it can be self degrading. Others will suck it dry for all it's worth. THAT is the problem.

I moved to Michigan after leaving Indiana while receiving unemployment benefits from indiana. What was my requirement to keep receiving my check? Fill out an online form with at least one job that was applied for. Anyone can lie their butts off and odds are it wouldn't be checked and they keep receiving their money without doing a single thing. I didn't do it and i could of. People knowingly take advantage of this and don't care...but yet they still have the money to buy dvds, cds, video games, etc.




Often, when i'm at break at work (i park on the street across from the building), people will ask me for a cigarette as they walk by. (Yes i'm a smoker) I always give them up...even though i don't want to as they aren't cheap and i can barely afford them myself. The last time this happened....a woman came up to me and asked for one...i gave her two. She said thanks and walked away. 5 minutes later she came back up to me with a big stack of stapled papers...they looked like hospital/doctor documents...i really didn't look at them i just noticed the papers were wadded up and dirty.

Anyway, the woman started to talk..and as she talked...she began crying. She pointed to the papers and said that she had cancer (I can't remember what kind of cancer sorry). She asked if i could spare some money as she was hungry and had no money to eat. I reached in my pocket to see what i had...and i rarely have any money as i don't like to carry it on me, but i had 6 dollars. I gave it to the woman and she thanked me and left. I remember feeling horrible because it was all i had.

But later i started to think more of the situation. I thought...well she bummed a smoke off me....then came back and told me she had cancer, which you'd think if you had cancer of any kind you should probably quit smoking, and asked for money. I couldn't help but think that she was going to go buy some smokes with that money. I hope that wasn't the case but i'll never know for sure.


There are many layers to people that don't have much. There are those that were put in that situation that was not in their control. There are some who have let there life deteriorate by drug or alchohol use. There are some who just don't give a damn and are looking for nothing but a handout.

I do understand that those people need help, but the government implemented programs are always extremely flawed and wasteful. It gives people a reason to not work and earn a living.

Another problem is that people are a product of their environment. If you are born in raised in a violent neighborhood, the odds aren't with you to get out. If you are born in a good neighborhood your chances are much better. That is something that needs to be fixed...and it ties in with education.

I believe in a limited government. I think people should be helped...but not to the degree that the government has to have such a large part in their lives. Government should be smaller. Taxes should be smaller. Everyone would benefit from this.

Yes there should be some government ran programs....but it's to the point now where they have their hands in everything. I feel it needs to end.

Very sorry for the long post....didn't realize i went on for so long

Doesn't the actual tax law and codes say that the only people that should even be paying federal income tax , even a penny of it, is people who work outside of the united states, and live in the United States?

Somewhere I ran into this, is it propaganda? They say there are millions of americans who don't pay taxes and don't get prosecuted because the IRS doesn't want to bring the actual tax code to a public light.

The problem is our capitalist system isn't really capitalist, it is in a sorry state. In a correct capitalist society, there would be plenty of wealth for everyone. So the people that turn to socialism are probably tired of this broken capitalist system. I can't be certain of this, I haven't researched it much, but I'd take a socialist system over a broken capitalist system. Of course, the number one choice on my list would be true capitalism but it just isn't going to happen.

Qualities of capitalism needed for it to function:

Competition - Companies hate it, and it doesn't exist in many areas. Look at buying drugs in Canada as an example. The medical system and education systems in America have no competition hardly.

Market-based - Not exactly, prices should be lower on some products probably but lack of competition is a problem.

Laissez Faire - yeah, also not really existent. Government is way too involved in things.

So when things are weakened, the consumer/middle class gets screwed which is what is happening now, helps the rich though. Weak capitalism = wealth distribution to rich.


[edit on 27-10-2008 by ghaleon12]

[edit on 27-10-2008 by ghaleon12]

It seems that before every Presidential election the candidates promise
extremely expensive programs that end up being whittled/watered down,
or never enacted at all. I remember all the extreme emotions surrounding
the Clinton's desire to revamp the health insurance system in the early
1990's. Lots of passionate pleas from uninsured folks on the airwaves, but
not a single aspect of their program was ever enacted.

A common sense approach, based on the history of these campaigns,
would indicate that isn't much to fear, or to hope for, from either Obama
or McCain. People love to label politicans as masterful liars. So why get
so emotional over what they say if they are not truthful or reliable??
-cwm


[edit on 27-10-2008 by carewemust]

One thing I learned early in my finance career is that the people
(Congress/Senate/Attorneys/Judges) who make tax laws in this
country have business or business-owner backgrounds.

They put in place tax-breaks that even the average person can
take advantage of if they start some type of business. If you
pay a few hundred dollars and start one of the MLM type of
businesses, like Amway, Isagenix, etc., you are instantly
empowered to lower your taxable income and therefore, the
amount of taxes paid to Uncle Sam. Just Google "tax deductions
for home based businesses" and you'll see what I mean. For example,
if you take a cruise (or any vacation) with your family and hand
out some business cards upon arriving at your destination, the
cost of that "working vacation" is deductible as a business expense.

Regardless of what Obama, or McCain would do to shift around
the tax burden, there will always be legal loopholes for businesses
and business owners. To change this would be tantamount to the
country leadership shooting themselves in the foot. That aint gonna
happen. My advice is to get in the game and learn how to keep
the maximum amount of your hard earned dollars for your family.
-cwm

What surprises me the most about all this issue of tax policy is that even with the time that McCain and his supporters has spent trying to portray Obama as a socialist he still favored in the polls as the best option to resolve our crisis.

When it comes to this issue the problem is not that Obama's plan is that great, is appealing to the masses but not great, but is certainly better than whatever John McCain is offering this week, I can't keep track of how many times he has change his economic plan.

The reality is IMO, that whoever wins is going to raise taxes regardless and accross the board, that just the economic reality that we are facing, also they would have no choice but to cut government spending.

McCain is done talking about the issues, he can't win on those so I would expect more of this, which by the way is fair game IMO, but just reeks of desperation, I think most people have just turned a deaf ear to this type of stuff.

I have decided long ago to vote for Obama, still is not a vote of confidence is a vote to first, prevent McCain to reach the White House (I dont like his policies AT ALL, I would have voted for Romney though), and second a vote for change, but I will still have my fingers crossed.

Have you guys ever been to a drivers license, social security, or any
other government office? Ever notice how they don't seem to be in
a hurry, or even care about much of anything? The more government
intrudes into our society, the more lethargic zombies we'll have to
deal with. I worked for the government for 2 nightmarish years on
a special project. People who want little out of life were in heaven.
For me, it was hell.

The people who are driven and/or feel that they are unique, flock to
America in droves. "The land of opportunity" isn't just a hollow
phrase, or slogan. It embodies what America is all about and why
people to this very moment are risking their lives to get here by foot
and in makeshift boats.

There should be more government regulation of certain industries,
but for the most part, Uncle Sam should leave free enterprise alone.
-cwm

I think some of the biggest critics of "Capitalism" are hypocrites. You have these high $$$ earning "entertainers" backing Obama and his "spread the wealth" mentality. If they are so fond of spreading the wealth, then donate to a damn charity!

On the other end, the other critics of "Capitalism" are those who haven't gained anything from it, or, "the poor". Yet, "the poor" sit back and watch Oprah or Jerry Springer during the day on their LCD TV's fattening themselves up on Government Assistance Food, when most of us work to make a living. The middle class who are voting for this idiot "Obama" are just plain ignorant or self-righteous in their liberal beliefs, or, they have the "white guilt" the Democrats are so capitalizing on.

If Socialism works so damned well, maybe you should consider renouncing your citizenship and moving to Europe. Hell, go to North Korea, China, Cuba, or Vietnam. North Korea would be excellent for you! Kim Jong Il had his citizens go "green" long before anyone else did, requiring his citizens to turn off all lights after nightfall to save on greenhouse gas emissions from their powerplants. I like all the pictures coming out of North Korea of families huddled around their LCD TV's at night, lights off of course. The young ones are on their laptops posting on ATS about how GREAT "spreading the wealth" has worked for them! And lets not forget the fond memories of Pol Pot in Cambodia, how every citizen (that is left after the "killing fields") has the wealth spread so even between them!

You people amaze me. You will support a government system that has a history of the most atrocities against its own citizens because you don't know any better. Maybe in a few years, when Obama has one of his thugs knock on your door because you DARED to speak out against him, you will learn.

On a side note, here is an adage I live by:

Be careful what you ask for. You might get it.

[edit on 28-10-2008 by CreeWolf]