911 Truth, Fading Away?

reply to post by jthomas
Could you explain how the 911 truth movement "uses" people please? A bit of background here...I'm a conservative. Yes, I voted for Bush. Twice. That being said, I never questioned 911 until I started investigating with the help of the truth movement. I've never bought a DVD, never given them anything of value other than my time. What are they using me for? To ask people to question their government's story about that day? Hell, use me all you want in that matter. I've got a ton of real, unanswered questions.

If anyone is being used, it is you.

Originally posted by BornPatriot
please clarify which Holocaust are you referring to.. ?
the one in 1913 - the one in 1933 or the one that supposedly happened at hitlers hand... ? all three killed 6 million Jews...
if the movie is correct that is... I don't know I wasn't there... and it does stink of Hollywood... as for the video's yes - those are dead bodies .. lots of them, after all how could food get to them and how could Hitler release prisoners - and to this day - I have seen no such evidence of gas chambers -- if you have a picture of one, well it would look like a decompression chamber for the technology of the day...

I just say -- put up your evidence -- because the deniers already put theirs on the table .... we are waiting....

The similarity between Holocaust Denial and 9/11 Denial is the pathology of "Denial," written about extensively in the literature. See Lipstadt, Shermer, et al.

It's instructive for readers to have you here to illustrate the point for us, BP.

The coming election of Barack Obama is very important. The direction the Obama administration takes will be very important. Obama is a corrective that the powers in the US are applying to the overreaching of the neocons under Bush.

The game needs a revised plan. Will truth gain traction under Obama? We'll have to wait and see.

Is Obama a native born American? Will the election turn into a shambles? Will Hillary be catapulted onto the ticket at the last moment? Will Bush declare martial law? Will the Supreme Court have to nullify the election or remove Obama from office, or change the constitution so that Obama can stay in office and Schwarzenegger can run in the future?

All questions that would have been unthinkable a few years ago. "People get ready, there's a train a'comin."

[edit on 22-10-2008 by ipsedixit]

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999





[edit on 22-10-2008 by driveshaft08]

Originally posted by tmbandt
reply to post by jthomas

 

Could you explain how the 911 truth movement "uses" people please? A bit of background here...I'm a conservative. Yes, I voted for Bush. Twice. That being said, I never questioned 911 until I started investigating with the help of the truth movement. I've never bought a DVD, never given them anything of value other than my time. What are they using me for? To ask people to question their government's story about that day? Hell, use me all you want in that matter. I've got a ton of real, unanswered questions.

If anyone is being used, it is you.

You gave yourself away.

You used the canard: "question the 'government story' of that day." That, my friend, is the 9/11 Denial Movement's propaganda to disguise its inability to deal with the massive, independent evidence that informs ALL of us about what happened that day.

Simply eliminate having to discuss the actual evidence by leading everyone to believe there is nothing but a government, and "official story", to lead one to believe that the "government" has something it's supposed to "defend itself" against - beyond its usual incompetence.

But, as critical thinkers know, the evidence of what happened on 9/11 neither originated with, nor was in control of, the "government" from the beginning. Does it excuse the government from incompetence? Possibly, no. Does it automatically render the government as suspect as 9/11 Truthers want people to believe? Of course not.

But look how easily 9/11 Truthers accept the irrational, but deliberate, propaganda of 9/11 Truthers. David Ray Griffin is an excellent example of a fraud and charlatan who knows exactly how to use propaganda.

Fortunately, 9/11 Denial - it's real name - is dying a rapid death and mose deservedly.

Originally posted by ipsedixit
The coming election of Barack Obama is very important. The direction the Obama administration takes will be very important. Obama is a corrective that the powers in the US are applying to the overreaching of the neocons under Bush.

The game needs a revised plan. Will truth gain traction under Obama? We'll have to wait and see.

Is Obama a native born American? Will the election turn into a shambles? Will Hillary be catapulted onto the ticket at the last moment? Will Bush declare martial law? Will the Supreme Court have to nullify the election or remove Obama from office, or change the constitution so that Obama can stay in office and Schwarzenegger can run in the future?

All questions that would have been unthinkable a few years ago. "People get ready, there's a train a'comin."

[edit on 22-10-2008 by ipsedixit]

I'll be voting for Obama, too.

Which demonstrates how 9/11 Truthers are blinded by their religious conviction that Bush must have been, somehow, magically, behind 9/11.

reply to post by jthomas

Honestly, what a load of horse manure. I'll admit, you certainly sound convincing, but I'm an old pro at this dude. Save it for someone with less education on the matter.

Let's just agree, to disagree.

Originally posted by tmbandt
reply to post by jthomas

 

Honestly, what a load of horse manure.

I'll admit, you certainly sound convincing, but I'm an old pro at this dude. Save it for someone with less education on the matter.

Let's just agree, to disagree.

No way. I saw right through you. As I am now by your response. No argument, no substance.

You gave yourself away as a newbie. Sorry. I've been debunking 9/11 Denial nonsense since early in 2002 and I know all the evasions.

You'd do better not to give yourself away but to educate yourself in critical thinking.

reply to post by jthomas

Ahhh, critical thinking... Yeah, that's listening to the official story and buying it hook, line and sinker? I was once there too man.

At threat of derailing this thread, what would you like to discuss? As in, what part of the official story, to you, holds an absolute truth to it?

See, I don't delve into the building collapse, nor the holograms, nor the "what hit the pentagon" stuff.

I'm more into the real questions, like who profited? Who lied? And so forth.

Maybe we should start a new thread. I dunno.

Originally posted by IvanZanaI see the resident debunker is dreaming in TechniColour again.

Alot of wishfull thinking. Never happen. 911 truth and world truth is on the rise and your sweating.

Victims and the children of 911 are reaching that age where they are very angry as to why they dont have parents and are demanding answers , this is only the beginning.

I have only read up to this post thus far and so apologize if I am injecting a point of view that has already been stated.

First off, wouldn't the debunkers technically be those who are denying the events of the days? I don't see the OP as a debunker, but rather someone who can think logically. Your only problem is that logic states that 4 planes were hijacked and 3 were flown into buildings all of which validates the official story.

What you have failed to see is that the OP has stated elsewhere that he does not agree with all of the decisions the current administration makes.

When will ppl realize that we will get so much further with this when we can acknowledge that things happened as we were told but that the REAL questions that need to be asked can be derived from this official story.

If any of you had any proof that your claims were legit, then there is no doubt in my mind you would not still be around to post. You are on the wrong path. There IS a path, but this is not it.

I am glad that it is declining. Life should be appreciated for the moment RIGHT NOW and not spent in the moment of the past. There will be justice, but trust me........ there is not one person on this whole board who is seeing the full truth and thus justice will not be brought about by your feeble attempts at creating fables. Better to focus your attention on what is going on right now than to dwell on something that can never be changed.



[edit on 22-10-2008 by justamomma]

yea, I know ... I cant stop laughing either. But I love letting them think - I haven't seen the evidence and actually have already reached the bar, that activated every Veteran I come across and so far thats about 10,000 + people and we use the word of mouth system brother to brother ... beyond a shadow of a doubt... plus, the more we occupy their time the more Americans actually learn of the treasonous acts... and the Murderous Acts ... as if USS Liberty wasnlt the final straw they thought they could come back and do it again... and did.... they got balls.... but now its pay back time ... 300 million awake Citizens... one person at a time... AH what do you have to say about that.... Mr. RoadApple

[edit on 22-10-2008 by BornPatriot]

Originally posted by IvanZana
Hey cash, this is funny eh?

Everytime a fact thread such as the ones i recently posted, they (debunkers/Liars) get schooled in a thread then they start up another " 911 truth is dead" threads in hopes to counter act it...... at a 9/11 forum. GO figure.

Do you remeber this classic thread that backfired on a debunker?
www.abovetopsecret.com...&colorshift=yes

Look at how many stars I got.....

[edit on 22-10-2008 by IvanZana]

My post was not derailing. It is right on topic. Your wishful point is that '911 truth is fading' because of ATS stats or whatever while I am showing viewers that you couldnt be more wrong.

People star and flag usually if they agree or think the post had substance Therefore, I made my point that the majority of users here dont agree with the official story on at ATS and most of them do not buy into your soliciting of the official myth concerning 911. You have failed to show any sources to back up your claims so you credibility is bunk like the official story.



[edit on 22-10-2008 by IvanZana]

This video (audio, really) gives an illustration of something that is pervasive in the 9/11 story and one of the most glaring signs of a centralized cover up. The responsibility gap.

No-one is responsible for anything. Who didn't do their job protecting first responders in the aftermath of 9/11? Was it Whitman? Was it Giuliani? Nobody does time in this story or loses their job, no matter how bad the eff up.

Originally posted by justamomma
If any of you had any proof that your claims were legit, then there is no doubt in my mind you would not still be around to post. You are on the wrong path. There IS a path, but this is not it.

To me this sounds like something coming from a person who acknowledges that they are already living in a murderous tyranny. You sound like a "good German" in the pejorative sense of that term from the Nazi era, that is, a well behaved German who maintains personal values but is standing aside for tyranny, or at least political murder.

Most people are like this but I would have associated this kind of thinking with a repressive dictatorship in the past, not with the United States of America.

Originally posted by ipsedixit To me this sounds like something coming from a person who acknowledges that they are already living in a murderous tyranny. You sound like a "good German" in the pejorative sense of that term from the Nazi era, that is, a well behaved German who maintains personal values but is standing aside for tyranny, or at least political murder.

Most people are like this but I would have associated this kind of thinking with a repressive dictatorship in the past, not with the United States of America.

Hmmm.. the VERY first part is correct.. someone who acknowledges that they are already living in a murderous tyranny. The murderous tyranny however, this time, would be a result of the greed that the PEOPLE of this country have accepted.

But I take offense at the assumption that I am okay with this. Hardly. Just because I see the logic in accepting the events of that day does NOT and should NOT lead to the conclusion that I am okay with our state of affairs and that I do not have questions about that day.

I do, however, acknowledge that I can blab all day long about wanting things to be an "ideal" way, but it makes no difference if I don't implement my ideals into my life myself. While you all wait around to get your gov't to admit to something they would never admit to even if you had evidence to support your theories, I am busy seperating myself from all that I find wrong in our gov't.

That day was a tragedy. The worse tragedy though is that ppl are spending their lives trying to prove something that they won't be able to prove. IF I were one of the victims, my message from the grave would be to deal with what you have before you. Seperate yourself from those you find to be unjust and wrong.


[edit on 22-10-2008 by justamomma]

reply to post by justamomma


I'm fairly realistic about this stuff. I know that we all can't be like the people who resisted Hitler; Bonhoffer, von Stauffenberg and others. And we all can't be like the people who are resisting the New World Order; Alex Jones, David Ray Griffin, Webster Tarpley and many others.

I think it is wise for people to inform themselves, but to take care of their own lives first, with one exception.

In these types of world historical times a moment will come to every one of us in our own little lives. It will be a moment where, momentarily, even the humblest of us can make a positive difference, no matter how small. I hope that when the moment comes, people do seize it and make that difference.


[edit on 22-10-2008 by ipsedixit]

reply to post by ipsedixit


k... noted BTW... I know Alex and although I think he means well, I no longer agree with his methods. People should not feel so *snipping* fearful and angry. Remember, Ben Frankin did much good when he went to the French in a respectful manner.. Charm will take you even further than just having the right message but being too fearful to act productively.

Originally posted by justamomma
Remember, Ben Frankin did much good when he went to the French in a respectful manner.. Charm will take you even further than just having the right message but being too fearful to act productively.

10-4.

Originally posted by jthomas

Originally posted by tmbandt
reply to

I've been debunking 9/11 Denial nonsense since early in 2002 and I know all the evasions.

When I read this I thought to myself whoa this guy must be the master debunker. I mean the 9/11 Commission wasnt even set up till late 2002, People were still putting flags up everywhere , the pile might still of been smoking in early 2002.

Your trying to tell me people have been "denying" as you put it since from back then?