Natural Selection and the Genetic Basis for Homosexuality

[So you're a calvinist, eh? That would definitely be a slippery slope since that would mean that God has chosen some people to salvation and the rest of the world to their "sinful" nature. So, basically what you are saying there is nothing to do about it, so why speak up?

Anyway, again, does homosexuality hurt you? If so, how?]


I dont even know what a calvanist is ..so I dont know about that one .

And I was being a smart alec when I said that ...

It doesnt hurt me at all ..in fact it is none of my business what you do or dont do ...
But when people sit back and say they have no CHOICES in what lifestyles they live or what sexual preferences they have due to genetic flaws etc ...and that they are how they are because of this that or the other then yes I have a problem ...the only people I believe did not have a choice in the things they do or say ... is someone who is Mentally Retarded or does not have the ability to be able to choose right from wrong ...

Othewise they are all just excuses .

IF you choose to live a certain way and want everyone to just accept you as you are ..then at least ADMIT you do it at your own peril and that it was YOUR CHOICE ..not something GOD forced on you at birth through some genetic defect ...that would be saying God did this to you and your gonna pay for it which is unfair and God is not unfair ..(unlike humans are) ...which is one of the MOST COMMON posts I see on this board .....to excuse their ungodly behaviours .....by blaming GOD and how he made us this way or that way ...


He would not condemn you for something you had no choice in like a genetic defect ...that is the only reason why I am even in this stupid post ..opening my big mouth ..when I really and truly do not care what you do .
I do care about how God is being blamed for everything ...
And most of you come out and are the first to say to us ..when we screw up that we blame the DEVIL ..well yall are getting really good at blaming God .

I dont blame God or the devil for anything I do bad ..I KNOW I DID IT because I CHOSE TO DO IT ...I am the one who GAVE Into the thought that the devil put into my head ..He didnt do it I DID >>>>....
the least yall could do is say ok ..I choose that ..so what ..and we can all just move along then ..

reply to post by AlexG141989




My parents were not Christian ..I was not indoctrinated .
So what else have you got ?

reply to post by Simplynoone


Oh I don't blame God for anything.

I blame the Church and the people that allow themselves to be indoctrinated by it.

double post, sorry

[edit on 10/20/2008 by schrodingers dog]

Nature in itself is neutral. The natural world just is. The forests, the animals, the clouds, have no conceptual position of themselves. Humans, depending on their society and culture, put concepts and labels to all that surrounds them.
Let me give you an example:
Let's say that in this moment a little baby girl is born in either of three places.

1. Thailand: In Thailand, no matter what our Western sensibilities might be, it is legal if she registers with the state, for her to become a prostitute at the age of 18. Not only that, but this girl will not be ostresized and will often be respected for supporting her family.

2. Saudi Arabia: According to their modesty laws women can't drive so as to not be exposed to potential sin.

RIYADH (Reuters) - Saudi police have detained a woman for violating rules banning women from driving in the conservative Muslim country, a newspaper said on Sunday.

The woman from Buraida north of Riyadh was stopped by a police patrol after driving 10 km to collect her husband, al-Hayat newspaper said.

The woman's "legal guardian" -- her husband -- was required to sign a declaration that he would not allow her to drive again, it said. It was not immediately clear if she was released or would face legal action.

Saudi Arabia is the only country in the world that forbids women from driving on the basis of fatwas, or religious opinions, from clerics who say it is un-Islamic.
Reuters Sun Jun 15, 2008

3. USA: Here, neither of those two extremes are acceptable.

Same girl, born in three different cultures, all of them convinced that under their cultural interpretation of their religion, have their moral compass absolutely right.
Three cultures that all have their "doctormcauley/Conspiriology" and will judge each other's morality from their own blinder assisted view.

But this little girl is the same little girl no matter where she is born. Same thing applies to homosexuality. No choices here, just natural babies being born, the luck of the draw will determine if they are fortunate enough to be born into a tolerant culture.

Moral Relativism:

The term ‘moral relativism’ is understood in a variety of ways. Most often it is associated with an empirical thesis that there are deep and widespread moral disagreements and a metaethical thesis that the truth or justification of moral judgments is not absolute, but relative to some group of persons. Sometimes ‘moral relativism’ is connected with a normative position about how we ought to think about or act towards those with whom we morally disagree, most commonly that we should tolerate them.

I dont blame God or the devil for anything I do bad ..I KNOW I DID IT because I CHOSE TO DO IT ...I am the one who GAVE Into the thought that the devil put into my head ..He didnt do it I DID >>>>....
the least yall could do is say ok ..I choose that ..so what ..and we can all just move along then ..

Homosexuality is not a choice dude... common sense alone should tell you that...

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy



Yes Lucid I have been in love ..I am still very much in love ..
I do not see sexual acts with him as me showing my love to him .
I see it as fulfilling a lust of my flesh ...it is very temporary and does not do one single thing for me spiritually..and it does not show I love him any more or any less ....LOVE IS NOT PHYSICAL ......it is spiritual ..



Some of you are not getting what I am trying to say ..maybe its the way I am trying to say this .

I use NO EXCUSE whatsoever for my actions ..you shouldnt either ...
I am totally responsible for whatever I am doing because I am making CHOICES ..some are good ones some are bad ones ..you should see that for your life too ...stop trying to search for genetic reasons why you do what you do ........
I could blame all my ills on the fact I was beaten,I was raised in Alcoholic family .they also took pills galore ....those are also considered in society as GENETIC defects ..or hereditary stuff whatever ....
I CHOOSE not to do those things ...and I dont .......so if they were genetic then how am I able to NOT DRINK and NOT BEAT my husband or kids ???

Because they are not genetic defects they are CHOICES >.otherwise I would be doing them too wouldnt I ?


Just admit to that .And get off the genetic defect stuff ..it is just not true ...and is not going to justify it for you at all ..in fact it is showing a desperate attempt at trying to find some other reason other than its a CHOICE your making all on your own ..

Just like my smokeing is ..Oh wait arent addictions also considered hereditary .that is just a bunch of BS >....see what I mean ?

[Homosexuality is not a choice dude]

Well then maybe yall need to talk about that among yourselves because some would disagree with you .
Lucid did ..

reply to post by Simplynoone


Homosexuality is NOT a choice

I didn't say that.

Put your Bible down and go read my post again please.

reply to post by Simplynoone




[edit on 20-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


So your saying that the Church and the people in it is to blame for all the ills of your life ? And Society as a whole ?

Now see thats even worse than saying its all Gods fault ..

Sheeshh ..


I got out of Church and do not blame ANY OF THEM FOR ANYTHING I have done or will do ...

IT IS ME WHO IS IN CHARGE of my LIFE and my BODY ..only I will be held accountable for what I do or didnt do ..Not anyone in the Churches or any of the people who are there ..I wont blame athiests ..or satanists either .
So what on earth is that crap ?Now I have heard everything ...

It is all MY FAULT if I am messed up ..Not anyone elses fault.
No one forces me to FEEL stuff ..or do stuff ..or act a certain way ..
IT IS ALL ME ....

I mean really ..come on ..thats just rediculous ....

Originally posted by Simplynoone
So your saying that the Church and the people in it is to blame for all the ills of your life ? And Society as a whole ?

What in the hell are you talking about??

Where did I say anything to suggest that?

I agree Lucid ..but some on this thread are saying just that ..(about it being genetic )
So maybe you should chime in and explain that to them too .
That is the only reason why I felt the need to speak out on this issue.


[edit on 20-10-2008 by Simplynoone]

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Originally posted by Simplynoone
So your saying that the Church and the people in it is to blame for all the ills of your life ? And Society as a whole ?

What in the hell are you talking about??

Where did I say anything to suggest that?

Wow so because I didnt show your quote you decided to be deceitful and delete it then deny what you just said ...okay then ..never mind I was a raving lunatic making stuff up that you said ..whatever ...

I believe I have had enough of this ..now your not playing fair ..
have a nice day Lucid ..
This is not a game to me ...

reply to post by Simplynoone


We don't know if it is genetic. We know that it is born. Exactly how is the question we do not yet have an answer for. It is a natural born orientation.

First off.

Fundamentally we are not seeing eye to eye at the very root of it.

You think it is a problem, that it is wrong, for a homosexual to act on his or her orientation.

I see no reason to believe that it wrong, or immoral.

reply to post by Simplynoone


I had no idea that you were replying to that post. I deleted it very shortly after I made it because I was going to rewrite it.

So you are saying by me saying it is not a defect that implies I am blaming society for all my ills in life???

I didn't think you replying to that post because that sounds even more odd to me. Please explain if you will.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Simplynoone

 

Oh I don't blame God for anything.

I blame the Church and the people that allow themselves to be indoctrinated by it.

Here is your quote Lucid ..
This was what I was replying to .
What do you blame on the Church and its people then ?

reply to post by Simplynoone


So I didn't delete it then Calm down.

First off what are my ills? When did I talk about my ills? Why are you making wild accusations?

You complained about the problem of people blaming God for things.

I said I blame the Church and the people that allow themselves to be indoctrinated by it.

I did not say however what I was blaming it for.

You made the assumption I was blaming it for everything.

Would you like to know what I personally blame it for?

OK I misunderstood what you were saying ..I mean it was very short ..with no explanations as to what you were talking about .


I posted a few posts above ..I did not grow up as a Christian ...I did not get indoctrinated ..In fact I have been tossed out of church a few times because I didnt believe some things they did and I questioned it ..
I indoctrinated myself ..all my choice ..to read that bible and all my choice to believe it ...And live it ....

I do not blame anyone else for anything that I am ..or that I have done .or what I believe ..neither should you ..
I am a grown woman who can determine right from wrong ...

I dont blame you for making me mad and losing my temper either .
It is my FAULT that I cant control myself ...(same thing with the choices that we make in our lifestyles etc ) ...

Thats my whole point .

ATS made me get mad lol ..ATS makes me sit here and stress ...Church peoples make me hate other Christians etc etc ...NOT ....
Athiests etc cause my blood pressure to boil etc etc ...it is not a blame game.
We are all responsible for our own actions ..
And we cant blame everything on genetics either .

Now will you please undo me as a foe ? lol please ...it hurts my feelings ......I mean you no harm and your not my enemy ....and I am not even a good foe am I ?