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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by fromunclexcommunicate
 


I agree that fundamentals are still bearish on natural gas but the excess of supply argument has already pushed natural gas below 3 dollars to new 52 week lows while everything else in the markets, with bearish fundamentals, are making new 52 week highs. Natural gas will inevitably go up if markets remain this high or go higher just due to the fact that people will bargain hunt...and natural gas is coming into season...I think if storage fills, that is the time to buy natural gas for an easy 100% return or more with producers this winter. That is, if storage fills. Which we will know about that like in about a month.




posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by seabisquit
reply to post by GreenBicMan
 


Do you really want dollars now? The 30 year treasury auction is at the end of the month; if the Chinese don't show (like the 3 & 5 year auctions) the dollar will be toilet paper by year's end.


Actually the 30 year bond sale was this last Weds.

And they said it was a HUGE Hit - that buyers were clamoring to buy the 30 year bonds!!

Funny, didn't say China bought any - Only "indirect buyers" nobody or country specific! yeah, Indirect buyers - sure - more like the Fed - buying it themselves - through their friends!

BUT the article says it was a smash and those indirect buyers were all bidding over each other, to be able to get those 30 year bonds!!

Give me a BREAK! I am not that dumb to believe that story!

I have tried to find the story I read about it - it was from the govt. that day - about how "awesome" it was.

But here is another take on it from Bloomberg

www.bloomberg.com...



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
 


Let me say this

If you scale into UNG now (that is they still let you continue to trade this thing down the line) this could prob. be the best long term investment in history.. and I dont think I will have to eat my hat on this one



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by GreenBicMan

Let me say this

If you scale into UNG now (that is they still let you continue to trade this thing down the line) this could prob. be the best long term investment in history.. and I dont think I will have to eat my hat on this one


And let me say this, don't ever tell anyone to 'invest' in an etf that tracks a commodity by rolling into forward futures contracts. The contango kills the price, along with the fees.



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 10:48 PM
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reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
 


ok, if you really see UNG sitting at around 10-12 or lower over the next 10 years ...

i would take my chances



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 10:52 PM
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Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
 


ok, if you really see UNG sitting at around 10-12 or lower over the next 10 years ...

i would take my chances


No I don't think that. But look at USO for example vs. oil drillers. Oil drillers up like 500%...USO is up like...70%. Even when oil is up 100%. And that is oil. Natural gas futures seem to have wide spreads for the price of the contracts varying each month. Until those spreads come down, UNG is a decaying instrument...a good natural gas producer is better imo.



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
 


ok

but it would have to be the worlds worst performing chart in history to divebomb to 10 and just sit here for years.. like I said, I (would) like my chances

edit: - discounting any nasdaq tech stock in early 2000 (yikes!)

[edit on 12-9-2009 by GreenBicMan]



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 11:53 PM
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I was just looking at the dollar bull etf (UUP) and their 24 dollar October call is only .07/contract...does anyone think this is really low when the stock is almost at 23? I know there is like zero volatility in the stock because it doesn't move...but still.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 06:52 AM
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Ha!




The Dow closed Friday at 9,605.41. On September 11, 2001, the Dow closed at guess what? 9,605.51. A lousy 1/10th of one point difference for 8-years of risk.


urbansurvival.com...

And more...




Far as I can figure, eventually we get lots more inflation since the Federal Deficit "hits $1.38T through August."


This would pencil out to a $1.505 trillion deficit at the present run rate by the time things wrap up on September 30th. And, if we assume a gross domestic product of around $13-trillion, that implies to my simple-minded way of looking at things a baked-in inflation rate (or speed of purchasing power being watered down, whichever you can cope with) of 11.5%.






[edit on 13-9-2009 by DangerDeath]



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 08:10 AM
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Nice eh? All Buddy-Buddy now... :shk:


As axis of power shifts, Wall Street goes to D.C.
www.msnbc.msn.com...

WASHINGTON - J.P. Morgan Chase for the first time convened its board in Washington this summer, calling the directors to a meeting at the downtown Hay-Adams hotel, then dispatching them to Capitol Hill for meet-and-greets.

Last month, a firm run by the billionaire investor Wilbur Ross hired the head of Washington's top mortgage regulator to pick through the wreckage of the housing bust looking for bargains.

And the world's largest bond fund, Pimco, which has traditionally assessed the risk of any new investment according to five financial criteria, recently added one more: the impact of any change in federal policy.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 08:40 AM
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reply to post by Hx3_1963
 





As axis of power shifts, Wall Street goes to D.C.



He he he - Fiascocracy



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 03:16 PM
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Down the road, the USA will lose its world position to China. The Chinese are not a hard capitalist country, so they won't allow blowing any bubbles, like subprime mortgages. Any unproductive, economy hurting speculations by individuals are not allowed.


One Year After Financial Crisis, Banking Reform Looks In Trouble


No, kidding . . .


The USA burned its ass on a red-hot plate and will do it again.

Those who can't learn from mistakes should be barred from issuing the world reserve currency. I wonder how many sharp global economic downturns caused by the USA are needed for the world to take a resolute action.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by stander
 


Stander if only governments had total control over the markets. I think we have learned throughout history that they don't/ The markets eventually win.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
 

hex keeps an eye on the banks that have folded. That brings about the question, which bank is considered the safest place to put your money in. As it turned out, the winner by a consensus is KfW Bankengruppe in Germany, which is entirely government owned. It's a very large bank. I guess the Germans don't consider "socialized banking" as such an evil as the ATS server usually advertises to keep folks in the dark.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 07:16 PM
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DOW futures -58FV
SP500 futures -5.5FV
Crude 68.90 -.56%
Natural gas 3.00 +1.25%
Gold 1010 +.35%

Dollar mostly up against basket of currencies.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 07:49 PM
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Futures are now down over 1%. Haven't seen such an anomaly in a very long time.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by stander
Those who can't learn from mistakes should be barred from issuing the world reserve currency.


That my friend is PERFECT Sig line material




posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 10:04 PM
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Some news...and yes Asia is down quite a lot...maybe the market can come back to what it's supposed to be? Below 7000? Especially the banks.

Stiglitz Says Banking Problems Are Now Bigger Than Pre-Lehman

Just you watch another crisis...this time the dollar will be taken out.

But don't you worry, Obama will fix it all with his speech tonight!


Axelrod Says 'Tea Party' Protesters Are 'Wrong'
Bad protesters! Doesn't matter that there was around 1 million in Washington DC alone...



posted on Sep, 14 2009 @ 12:08 AM
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Great read with pictures of the immense amounts of idle cargo ships (more ships than the US and British navy combined) in the waters near Malaysia. Just docked there doing nothing when usually this is the busiest time of the year for them. This reflects the TRUE state of things, not the equity markets...

www.dailymail.co.uk...



posted on Sep, 14 2009 @ 12:41 AM
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Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
Futures are now down over 1%. Haven't seen such an anomaly in a very long time.

Turbulent times ahead. Slight panic is in the making. The financials are not actually stable. They were regarded as being in a serious but stable condition, but now complications set in. Bernanke is up to sleepless nights, I guess.



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