The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

Both dow and S&P tanked in last few minutes to close down. Are they seeing the doom at the end of the tunnel perhaps?

reply to post by Hx3_1963


Yes they are putting the fact that foreclosures are back with full force because most of the deals been made has been in mortgage refinancing while new mortgages are still at a low.

So the mortgage companies most be making something out of the refinancing alone.

Maybe they heard the light at the end of the tunnel blowing its whistle.

The suicide of Freddie Mac's CFO is IMHO the most important finance related story of the day. We're going to be getting the results of the Bank Stress tests soon. I'm most interested in the methodology they are using. I've heard that the assumptions they are using for the Stress Test are using unemployment and job loss numbers that we are already nearly at.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac mortgage delinquencies among the most creditworthy homeowners rose 50 percent in a month as borrowers said drops in income or too much debt caused them to fall behind, according to data from federal regulators.

from rueters

It appears to be Prime Time now.

[edit on 22-4-2009 by jefwane]

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by RetinoidReceptor

 

You might want to check out the KBW banking index and the call volume for those underlying securities, so far you have presented nothing but your opinion, while I am stating firm facts.. so I am awaiting your response I suppose if you would like to discuss this further

Call volume? So what? I buy calls all of the time if I am short in markets like this to hedge my bets. That is what smart people do. Put to call volume ratios on GE going into earnings was 3:1. Blogs were saying GE would crash due to this put volume. It didn't. Don't trust options activity all of the time because people tend to buy options opposite of how they really think things will go

reply to post by jefwane


His suicide does make you wonder if he may have known something that we don't know, and didn't want to deal with it. Then again, maybe he just suffered from chronic depression (no pun). Who knows?

[edit on 22-4-2009 by theWCH]

Originally posted by TH3ON3
Both dow and S&P tanked in last few minutes to close down. Are they seeing the doom at the end of the tunnel perhaps?

No it is probably just day traders unloading. Like I have said, this is a traders market.

I really really wish they would just call this a damn depression already. It meets the requirements of quarters of rising unemployment and a big ass fall in the market.

reply to post by marg6043

marg, are you there?

You are such a hard-nosed tax payer. Just give the banks some room to breath.

'TARP babies' struggle to pay back government

Banks trying to return bailout funds find doing so isn't quite as quick and easy as they might have hoped, due to problems on how to handle warrants.

money.cnn.com...

Come on, marg. How can you be so cruel? Look at those little cute babies. Look it those cheeks . . . . tyatyatayatya.

Stay away for them!!

My "formerly hot" governor is begging...

Michigan's governor appeals to Chrysler lenders
www.reuters.com...

DETROIT, April 22 (Reuters) - Michigan's governor appealed on Wednesday to Chrysler's secured lenders, including banks and hedge funds, to help the automaker avoid bankruptcy by going back to the bargaining table with a new offer to cut debt.

In letters sent to the top executives of at least eight banks and hedge funds, Governor Jennifer Granholm said she was deeply disappointed with the offer Chrysler's secured lenders presented to the U.S. Treasury, and urged the parties to come back to the table.

"With just over a week to go before the government's restructuring deadline, I urge you, too, to do your part to avoid the devastation that a bankruptcy or liquidation will bring," Granholm wrote.

More at Link...

How sad is it, that a formerly powerful state governor has come to this...

The "Masters of the Universe" must feel super powerful today...

Not that it will matter now...

GM plans to close U.S. factories for nine weeks
www.ksdk.com...

[edit on 4/22/2009 by Hx3_1963]

Can anyone say, "Pre-Cooked?"

Banks Need More Capital If Unemployment Exceeds 10% -FBR Test
money.cnn.com...

NEW YORK -(Dow Jones)- Most of the largest U.S. banks will have enough capital to withstand an unemployment rate of 10%, but their viability without more capital-raising is questionable above that level, according to a "stress test" of several large banks released Wednesday by FBR Capital Markets.

Several bank executives have said they believe the unemployment rate will peak around 10%, and in the "adverse" scenario - outlined in the U.S. Treasury Department's stress test - unemployment crests at just above that level.

But FBR Capital analyst Paul Miller, who authored FBR's report on stress tests, believes the banks and government's expectations are overly optimistic. In the firm's survey of 62 buy-side firms, about 80% think the unemployment rate will peak between 10% and 12% and about half expect the peak to come as late as the second or third quarter of 2010.

More at Links...

U.S. Senate backs panel to probe financial fraud
www.reuters.com...

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Senate voted on Wednesday to create an independent commission to investigate the cause of the worst U.S. economic crisis in decades.

"The only way to get an objective evaluation of where mistakes were made is to create an independent commission of experts to ask what went right, what went wrong and what could we have done to prevent this," said Republican Senator Johnny Isakson, a chief sponsor of the measure.

On a vote of 92-4, the Senate approved the measure as an amendment to a bipartisan bill headed toward anticipated passage that would crack down on financial fraud. Both the House and Senate would have to pass legislation to create a commission before it could be signed into law by President Barack Obama.

[edit on 4/22/2009 by Hx3_1963]

reply to post by stander


Don't do this to me, you are touching a tender spot with the tax bail out scam that is hurting very bad.

How can banks pay back the bail out when they are reaping supposedly profits? because the profits that they are reaping is done by downgrading their stocks.

And the deals that they are doing while buying out other banks and merging with other institutions.

Is not such thing as profits as long as they own money everything is nothing but an illusion.

Seriously, Michigan is already screwed, and it will get worse. IMO most of the US will look like post-GM-Chrysler collapse Michigan in 2 years maximum.

And those of you who want to flee here in Canada.... sorry but our economy will tank a few weeks after yours.

Going to Mexico? Even worse.

So if you want to stay in the US, prepare. Otherwise, get out before the year is out.

Originally posted by marg6043
How can banks pay back the bail out when they are reaping supposedly profits?

That's right. How can you pay your mortgage when you are employed? How can you get rich by making lots of money? It doesn't make sense, does it? In our new economy, the more you make, the less you can afford and vice versa. That's why there is a growing unemployment caused by clever people who have figured the NEO (New Economic Order.) How do you think the morgage crisis started? All those folks who had declared bankrupcy and were unemployed qualified for loans.

Originally posted by Hx3_1963
Can anyone say, "Pre-Cooked?"

Banks Need More Capital If Unemployment Exceeds 10% -FBR Test
money.cnn.com...

NEW YORK -(Dow Jones)- Most of the largest U.S. banks will have enough capital to withstand an unemployment rate of 10%, but their viability without more capital-raising is questionable above that level, according to a "stress test" of several large banks released Wednesday by FBR Capital Markets.

Several bank executives have said they believe the unemployment rate will peak around 10%, and in the "adverse" scenario - outlined in the U.S. Treasury Department's stress test - unemployment crests at just above that level.

The new capital injection will come from the taxpayers and that will diminish their purchasing power, which affects factory orders, which in turn is the prime cause of unemployment. The Circle of Doom span by The Centrifuge of Perpetual Madness shall expand its diameter measured in nautical miles. The 3D representation of The Final Circular Reckoning is The Ball of Unusual Desire.
www.geocities.com...


kristinasworld.files.wordpress.com...

We must seek salvation by opening the Arc of the Covenant.

i see the stock market holding above 7500 until the second quarter earnings come out .......in late july........where they may test march lows..... i think the market may get up to 9000-9200 by late june early july. i do not have any confidence that a Bear market low is anywhere in the horizion unless a co-ordinated currency devaluation occurs and reprices assets up ward.....bear markets that unwind from long credit bubble's deleveraging take a lonnnn time for earnings to come back....there may be some blips of hope that people who lost money hang onto (wishing they may re-coup their losses) but people without emotional ties to these rally's can see them for what they likely are........also any fear that people will miss the "bottom" doesn't apply to a credit driven crisis in a credit driven economy.......because in that scenario earnings don't bounce back like in typical recessions.....(even if it takes a quarter or two more of bad earnings for people to realize this)....just like anyone afraid to miss the bottom in RE is not thining logically.....prices there are going to enjoy a long "bottom"........with unemployment and bank's lending averse.....home prices will not rally back with any authority.....one thing that would help would be more tax benefits for home buyers....but this will only slow the slide......it takes time.....



[edit on 22-4-2009 by cpdaman]

LAYOFF DAILY
Wed 4-22-2009

GM to Shut Most Plants 9 Weeks
Castaic Schools -10
City of Surprise AZ -23
Plum Creek Timber -39
Apache Corp. -200
InTest Corp. -25
Jacksonville FL Bus Drivers -660
Chicago Tribune -53
GMAC Insurance -54
HSBC in Hong Kong -100
Mass Mutual Cuts Again -53
Phillip Morris Closing Plant -1,100
Kokomo Indiana on Thin Ice
Newspaper Closes -10
ERMCO -90 S
pray Nine Corp. -71
Lansing MI Schools -170
T. Rowe Price -288
Honolulu Shriners Hospital -10
Thousands of Sun Workers Fear for Jobs
Marlboro Workers Face 20% Pay Cut
Sanlo Inc. Closes Plant -70
Fraser Marine and Industrial -35
GSI Commerce Call Center -279
Munksjo Decor Closing Plant -120
exmark Closing Mexican Plant -270
American LaFrance Closing 2 Plants
Tannery Closing -16
Warvel Products Closing -35
Northumberland Hills Hospital -24
Brighton MI Schools -50
Nordstorm in Cedar Rapids -62
Southfield MI Schools -104
Volvo in Sweden -1,500
Mooresville NC Schools -60
Mystic Seaport -18
Pratt-Read Corp. -20
Mass. Bay Transportation Authority -75
Goodyear -27
OshKosh B'Gosh -90
Fire Truck Plant Closes
Independence Blue Cross -100
Latrobe Specialty Steel -165
Yahoo -675
TOTAL - 6,750 +
and...
Wal-Mart China -10,000?

Slowing down?
um.. not really.



[edit on 22-4-2009 by spinkyboo]

Originally posted by cpdaman
i see the stock market holding above 7500 until the second quarter earnings come out .......in late july........where they may test march lows..... i think the market may get up to 9000-9200 by late june early july.

If that happens, then the next year the Dow is free to hit the ionosphere, coz in June and July, GM, which somewhat symbolizes corporate America, will have to announce its decision on how to deal with the problems. Since the palette of options is getting smaller with a bankrupcy taking the lead, that environment won't be much conducive for the Dow to surf the 9k waves. But since the investors don't call the shots; traders do, many things are possible.


[edit on 4/22/2009 by stander]

Originally posted by theWCH

Originally posted by Hx3_1963
Great...just what the USSA needs...

Biden announces new position "intellectual property czar"
www.foxnews.com...

I actually think that ironing out some intellectual property issues could be a very good thing. Of course, if they don't get these things ironed out while people still have enough money to enforce Intellectual Property laws, then it's all a big exercise in futility.

I heard that Biden intends on reclaiming all current and future alien technology for ownership by the American people.

Current Unemployment Rates for States and Historical Highs/Lows

www.bls.gov...

[edit on 22-4-2009 by spinkyboo]

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by RetinoidReceptor

 

You might want to check out the KBW banking index and the call volume for those underlying securities, so far you have presented nothing but your opinion, while I am stating firm facts.. so I am awaiting your response I suppose if you would like to discuss this further

Call volume? So what? I buy calls all of the time if I am short in markets like this to hedge my bets. That is what smart people do. Put to call volume ratios on GE going into earnings was 3:1. Blogs were saying GE would crash due to this put volume. It didn't. Don't trust options activity all of the time because people tend to buy options opposite of how they really think things will go

Ok.. so the point you are making is that since you buy calls to hedge your bets high call volume isnt a bullish indicator?

Either way high volume of calls is bullish, and that was my only point I guess..

There's more than put to call or even volume etc. when institutions start selling calls and whatever sorcery they do.