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15 Year Old Girl Charged as Sex Offender

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posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by schism85
 


Adults acting in a consensual manner isn't the problem here. The problem here is underage kids acting in a very grown up fashion. The problem here is that for some reason people here in this thread are condoning the creation of child pornography because the participant was a willing subject for the photographs.

what two consenting adults do is their own business.

What a minor does is his caregivers business, and if the caregiver isn't competent enough to deal with the situation then the legal system has got to step in. Obviously the caregiver could not teach this child in the proper manner about online etiquette. So I feel that the state should step in and teach this child a rather harsh lesson.

No not labeling her a sex offender

But something more substantial than taking her phone away and telling her "bad girl".


Okay, like you said before, give her a lesser charge. Iam not saying this is ok behavior. Iam just saying, I understand it, not that I condone it. And I think that is where you are getting mixed up.




posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by skeptic1
 


No, if she had taken a picture of herself and kept it for herself that is not pornography.

She sent it to her boyfriend, to turn him on. That is pornography.

If she had taken a naked picture of herself and kept it to herself, none of this would have occured. The reason this is an issue is because she sent it to her boyfriend. Thats why it's distributing child pornography. The instant she sent a picture of herself naked to her boyfriend it ceased being a naked picture of herself and became a child porn picture.



Sending a picture to your boyfriend to "turn him on" is not pornography. That wouldn't have been considered pornography by my parents when I was a teenager. And my mother burnt every porn magazine my brother hid in his room as she considers exploiting women like this to be a crime against humanity. But issues of teenage sexuality and boyfriends was not something she was rigid and harsh about. She was an awesome mom by the way!



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 10:48 AM
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Ok people, I really don't see whats so hard to comprehend here.

Yes teenagers are going to have sex with other teens. This is normal behavior. This happens. This isn't the issue here.

Teens however should not make little pornos to send to their friends or post online. I don't see why people aren't getting this.

What happens when the bf and gf end their relationship? What if it ends badly? Would you trust that this boy not send this photo to all of his friends? Then can you trust that this photo won't be sent even further?

I mean cmon people, lets look at it for what it really is.

This is a stupid act yes. It is a stupid act that is illegal. This is what I don't understand about people in this thread condoning this act. Mandatory counseling? What is that going to do? Sorry but you can't force someone to straighten out in counseling, they will just blah blah blah the counselor till the time is up then nothing is accomplished.

And no making her out to be a sex offender is too much too.

But a serious crime has been committed here. This is what I don't understand about people in this thread. Child porn is being distributed, just because minors are involved does not mean it's not a crime.

I don't think that ruining this child's life forever will help, but I don't think that doing nothing but taking her phone away and scolding her will help this aspiring porn star either.

What needs to be done is an actual charge, lewd conduct and contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Thats what has transpired. Give her a stern real warning about this issue, give her community service, and make sure that the caregivers are also held accountable as well.

People, pedophiles could use some issue like this to gain a loophole into getting their hands on material from our children. If we allow this sort of behavior to go unpunished then this opens up the door for seriously sick adults to take advantage of our children's stupidity.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 10:52 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I have read this entire thread this morning, and I am shocked at the lack of common sense being applied here.

The "Law" is about justice, or at least it should be. The old saying that laws are meant to be broken is really about the intersection between a "set in stone" law and the fact that justice can never be fully incorporated into a "one size fits all" code of conduct. (The New Testament of the Christian Bible addresses this issue in some depth.)

There are those in any society that for whatever reason want laws to be immutable. But humans, and their varied actions, are too messy for such an idea to ever be practical. It is the duty of we the people to use common sense in those areas where shades of gray must be plumbed to reach justice.

As an example, it is illegal to steal. Yet, we have sense enough to know that a child stealing a candy bar, even if they knew it to be morally wrong, isn't the same thing as a robber taking someone's wallet on a street corner. We judge this due to the offender's age. It's wrong, and they knew it was wrong, but we as a society don't hold them to the same standards as an adult.

Here we have a youth, 14, who committed an act that would be a serious crime for an adult. But, because of their age and lack of life experience, we ought not hold them to the same standards as an adult of 40 years.

And in the context of the case itself, how can the 14 year old be a minor as the victim of child pornography, (it was a picture of a minor that is the crux of this case) and also be guilty as the perpetrator of the crime? If the 14 year old is an adult in the eyes of the law by sending the picture, then she can't also be a minor in relation to the picture itself. By the same token, the juveniles who received this picture cannot be given adult status for the cause of charging them, and yet at the same time be seen as children receiving porn.

With the idea of justice, as opposed to law, then all involved need to be seen as adults, in which case no law was broken, or all seen as children, in which case the same standards used for adults is not applicable. It is idiocy to try to have it both ways.

And please, refrain from telling me how this picture could/would end up in the possession of a pedophile. His act of obtaining the pictures would be where a separate incident would began. Nor is it morally justifiable to use the "intent" of a child, whatever it might be, as legal grounds for prosecution, because if the person is a child, as would have to be the view for it to be child porn, then they are not legally able to differentiate right from wrong enough for such an idea to have validity.

Now, as a human being, I clearly see the "wrong" in her actions, and in no way think she ought be excused from consequences. But the punishment here should/must be in accordance with her age and/or legal status. If she's an adult, then there was no child porn, and if she is a child, then her legal status must be protected the same as we protect any other child.











As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


I don't think what she did had anything criminal about it. She's not a criminal, and you have absolutely no clue what she is aspiring to be. I would not be sooo freaked if she was only charged with lewd conduct. She got caught, time to pay the piper. I think all of us has had to stand up and face something in our lives, because of a mistake we have made, and have hopefully learned from it. And in this case, I hope she does learn something about how screwed this world really is, and that she is potentially putting herself in danger.

But she is no felon. She is not a distributer of child pornography, and she should not be treated as one. She is not the devil you are making her out to be.

[edit on 17-10-2008 by schism85]



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by NGC2736
 


Exactly....

A little common sense goes a long way.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 10:55 AM
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They shouldn't because it could be dangerous to them, it could get into the wrong peoples hands. Teenagers don't think these things out, and really don't know the dangers online behavior can cause, even in chat rooms. A police officer phoned me the other day promoting a new learning program for teenagers about online safety. I didn't need it, we run linux and restricted accounts in xp and my kids are shy suspicious types like me, so he surprised me by complimenting me in the end on how knowledgeable I was and that my kids were in good hands concerning the net. But he told me that the vast majority of kids didn't have a clue, and the parents didn't know enough to keep them safe. This online sharing of her picture, which is not pornography and isn't in the same ballpark, even by my mother, who hates the stuff's definition, is dangerous to her, and she needs to be taught online safety. This isn't a criminal matter however. Its a parental instructional moment.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by NGC2736
 


I think that pretty much sums up my opinion too. If you would have said that yesterday, there would have been no reason for me to post. Very well put. Starred.


You should be stared just for reading the entire thread. I bet you have puked a few times by now. I have.


[edit on 17-10-2008 by schism85]



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 11:12 AM
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What is sickening is that people in this thread don't think that sending a nude photograph of an underage child for the intent of turning on another child is pornographic.

Seriously? No criminal charges should be filed? I guess we better take all those people off the sex offender lists that send each other child porn pictures then. If this isn't a crime then why is that?

Because shes a minor this doesn't make it a crime?

So I guess a minor that brings a gun to school and kills his classmates shouldn't be charged with anything cause hes just a kid and didn't know any better?

Seriously?

She in fact took a picture of herself. This in itself is not a crime or wrong to do.

The wrongdoing here is sending the picture to her bf.

The parent's obviously aren't capable or understanding enough to punish the child of this behavior, so the state must get involved.

A scolding of the child and taking away of her cell phone will do nothing. While charging her as a sex offender is too much I don't think we should condone this behavior. Really people, these are indeed children, but at the same time these are children that are turning into adults. They need to be held accountable for their actions at the age of 15.

Don't ruin her life forever, but at the same time don't just slap her on the wrist either. What she has done isn't a minor problem, it's a growing problem amongst our youth. It's a problem that must be dealt with harshly at the same time it must also be dealt with so that the child's life isn't ruined forever. But to do little or nothing about it is wrong and neglectful.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


There is a difference between a 15 year old girl sending her 15 year old boyfriend a nude picture of her that she took herself and a 40 year old man who took a picture of a nude 15 year old girl and passed it around to all his buddies. It is not the same thing. One is a stupid thing to do while the other is criminal.

That's what some of us are seeing that others are not.

You said yourself that her taking the nude picture of herself was not in and of itself pornography, child or otherwise. It was the sending of the picture that turned it into child pornography and the distribuation thereof.

This situation is teenagers doing stupid things that they did on their own with no force or malice involved. This is not a pedophile or child molester passing out child pornography. And, the criminal charges mentioned were created to protect children from adults, not to protect teenagers from each other and their hormones and the stupid things that hormones can sometimes make teenagers do. No violence here, no malice, no criminal intent......just a stupid act by teenagers.

If so many of us can see the difference, why can't you?


[edit on 10/17/2008 by skeptic1]



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by skeptic1
 


im just gonna copy and paste this...


A scolding of the child and taking away of her cell phone will do nothing. While charging her as a sex offender is too much I don't think we should condone this behavior. Really people, these are indeed children, but at the same time these are children that are turning into adults. They need to be held accountable for their actions at the age of 15.

Don't ruin her life forever, but at the same time don't just slap her on the wrist either. What she has done isn't a minor problem, it's a growing problem amongst our youth. It's a problem that must be dealt with harshly at the same time it must also be dealt with so that the child's life isn't ruined forever. But to do little or nothing about it is wrong and neglectful.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

As a "people" and "in this thread" I'll comment.

I am NOT for just ignoring it. Her behavior needs to be looked at closely; she may need intense counseling over this, and the underlying causes. I agree that she needs to have more than her cell phone removed.

However, you and others have to make up your mind if she's a child or an adult. Either she is or she isn't. There's no such thing as being a little pregnant.

And the sickening part would be to act like the "law" is for deciding right and wrong/degree of guilt. Logic says that you can't be both victim and perpetrator. I understand your disgust at this action. But charging her with a crime doesn't solve the problem. (It may make enough headlines for the prosecutor to become governor though.) I even agree that a crime has been committed. I just fail to see justice in tagging her as a felon, thereby insuring reduced chances of gainful employment in the future, the right to hold sensitive jobs, or even to vote.

(On a side note, maybe TPTB want everyone tagged as a felon so only they and their cronies can vote. That's a surefire way to make a dictatorship.)




As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 11:31 AM
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The difference is simple. The law is there to protect a child from being exploited by an adult, not from misbehaving. An adult is allowed to send a picture of herself nude to her boyfriend to "turn him on". So is she being charged as an adult for something that isn't a crime for an adult. That is not considered pornography even for an adult.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 11:59 AM
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Yeah, and yet child molestors serve a couple of years and are turned back loose on society.

My son's good friend has to spend his life as a registered sex offender because he mooned a couple of old ladies on the interstate when he was 19. He was with a couple friends, driving and something happened, these ladies went to pass them and supposedly almost clipped their car; anyway, he told his friend driving to get up in front of them and he mooned them. They called hiway patrol and the rest is history. I could see him getting a misdemeanor and community service but this is our justice system today.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by asmeone2
 


ya know its pretty weird too.. im up in Canada and my (bear with me) brothers ex girlfriends brother got charged with child pornogrpahy.. like a whole bunch on his computer and did less than a year.... I cant see a 15 year old girl being more of a threat then a 25 year old loser with priors.. thats odd indeed



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


Well what else do you suggest? Being put on the sexual offenders register will label her as a paedophile. So please say what you think is the correct procedure for such an incident? Personally i think her parents should havea go at her, her phone taken away, along with internet access ad the police should give her a talking to.

So you remember being 15? This would scare the hell out of most 15 year olds. However do you think she shoudl be put on the sex offenders register? I mean you say she shoudln't be labelled a paedophile but seem happy for her to be on the register so i'm confused.

I'm sorry but she's 15, for gods sake she should not be prosecuted over such an action.


I ask you again, what is the difference between this girl and a girl who is groomed online and sends pictures of herself to a paedophile? Afterall many cases of grooming ar prosecuteda nd i have never yet seen a victim prosecuted for sending pictures of his/herself.

Dont' you think that is a double standard?



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by whatukno
What is sickening is that people in this thread don't think that sending a nude photograph of an underage child for the intent of turning on another child is pornographic.


I'm sorry but you just twisted logic to breaking point. No one here says child pornography is right! Your strawman (that's what it is) is obviously wrong. But a 14 year old sending a picture to people of her own age group is not the same thing.

Your black and white world scares the hell out of me.

EDIT

whatukno

You never answered this question

When a person grooms a child and asks for pictures they are prosecuted to the full extent of the law and the child never gets in trouble for sending the pictures.

So if this case goes through does that mean all groomed children will also be prosecuted for distributing child pornography? Or will we let them off because of the circumstances? If we let them off then how can we prosecute this child?

If you can't answer this question then you have no arguement.




[edit on 17-10-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 12:19 PM
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This case will be dismissed on appeal. In this case one might cite Riggs v. Palmer (NY) in which it was ruled that something may be within the letter of the law (i.e. she committed the crime as it is written) but not wihtin the spirit of the law (what the intention of the framers of the statute were). It was obviously not intended to punish a young girl for possessing nude photographs of herself in a manner such as this. A slap on the wrist? Counseling? Perhaps. But to charge her as a sex offender seems like an overextension of the law, and one that no federal judge would stand for. Go Sox!



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 12:19 PM
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Well she is from ohio which is in the US land of the free. if i read that right.
THe U.S. were to legalize drugs, and underage drinking and stop concerning ourselves so much with non violent "crimes". I assure there would not be a meth lab on every corner and pandemonium on every street.
I am sad that we as a people dont understand that? are you kidding me.
How about a little personal responsibility. You do drugs you damage your health you die. You take nude pictures and send them via picture messaging. You run the risk of him showing his friends and she feels like a...it rhymes with strut

well surely you know some fifteen year old girl isn't trying to start a child pornography ring? are you a human being? Do you not remember that awkward weird age where everything sucks and you are not sure of anything especially yourself, i mean your hormones are going nuts and it all has to do with becoming an adult. Your body is going from caterpillar to butterfly. and she committed a crime,
get real people we have in the u.s. the highest percentage of incarcerated people in the world. We have murderers, corporate criminals(HALIBURTON anybody) and we are going to waste our time with turning this girl into a sexual predator. I know shes not going to jail were just ruining her name for 10 years

That is not America thats not freedom. I mean what is going on here. if you do drugs then your killing yourself, So let them. Instead of spending money to incarcerate innocent people. we can use it towards research, so we can have effective rehabilitation system for people who are sick, because drug addiction is a sickness not criminal behavior! . They need medical attention and help.

oh and by the way im glad we got those dope fiends in jail instead of hospitals so we waste their LIFE and our money. In the future, 20 years from now if that they will see us a barbaric cruel ignorant people.
Its sick that you think the govt has the right to know if two kids are doing whats natural. and then charge her right along with uncle pervert. WHen your a sexual predator you have to touch someone else you morons. Uncle pervy was showing his thing to eight year olds.

if two freshman in highschool see eachother naked on the phone is the same as uncle pervy then you have a sick head. and you never got horny in high school. Its high school her life is hell as it is trying to figure out who she is, but well help her out. predator.

One last relevant point if you didnt at least think about sex 5 times a day as a freshman then your not a human.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by SantaClaus
 



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