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15 Year Old Girl Charged as Sex Offender

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posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 05:49 PM
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Ok this is the last post Ill make in this insane thread I swear Ill delete it from my favorites and never return. Frankly this thread has seriously diminished my views of the morals of the people on this board.

Here is my stance, take it for what it is, if you disagree I really don't care at this point.

This child has acted in an adult manner. Yet she is a child. She has produced something that in an adults or another person's hands would be in fact a criminal photograph. This photograph was produced with the intent to arouse, this is not a baby picture, this is not an innocent photograph.

Now she has obviously done wrong, her caregivers are no longer in control of this situation because the boyfriend who was the recipient of the photograph was caught with the photograph in school. Obviously he was showing inappropriate material off to his friends when the teacher got wind of it and saw the photo.

Now here's the problem with this whole thing...

I do not agree with the punishment that is given in the OP. No we don't need to punish this young lady for the rest of her life for bad judgment. However we cannot allow child porno to be created, nor can we condone such lewd behavior by minors.

The problem is that this young lady is doing something that can have major consequences to her later in life. Had this photograph gotten out onto the internet... (either by her bf breaking up with her and sharing the photo with his friends or an adult getting ahold of it and posting it online) She would have a hard time getting it removed if she could at all.

Is she a victim? No

Are there victims in this instance? No

Has she committed a crime? Yes

Does she deserve to be punished? Yes

Does she deserve a punishment that will last 10 years or more? No

Will taking her phone away and scolding her do anything to curb this behavior? I doubt it.

Will making her go to counseling make her understand the issues at hand? I doubt it, after all shes dumb enough to send a teenage boy nude photos of herself. Obviously shes not too bright.

If it were up to me this is what I would do...

I would charge her with Lewd conduct, & Contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Give her a suspended maximum sentence. Perhaps sentence her to probation and assign her some community service.

I would also strongly recommend counseling. If she chooses to go it probably would benefit her self esteem. If not unfortunately you cannot force someone into counseling.

Now as far as those posters that feel that she has done nothing wrong and that sending indecent and pornographic materials from one teen to another teen is all good. I have to say that this view is disturbing, disgusting, inappropriate, wrong, and altogether atrocious. Why do I feel this way about photographs and not about two teens having sex with each other? The reason is two teens having sex with one another more than likely won't be viewed by anyone else.

While it is illegal for adults to have sex with children, it should not be illegal for two teenagers to have sex with each other. After all they are teenagers and will do this anyway.

The major difference is that no permanent document is made. No photograph is now in existence.

I hope you all understand my point now. I am out of this thread. As I have said before, my views on the morality of the people of this board are forever changed in a negative way. For those that know me, for someone to offend my sense of morality is pretty bad.




posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 05:55 PM
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The morality being violated is in trying to criminalize a normal teenager, and not protecting her from this kind of stigma and procedure. The morality on this board is that parents, in concern and love for this child would intervene in more appropriate and less harsh ways than apparently you, partly because some of them are very experienced in dealing with kids and teens. You don't understand teens very much.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by whatukno
Ok this is the last post Ill make in this insane thread I swear Ill delete it from my favorites and never return. Frankly this thread has seriously diminished my views of the morals of the people on this board.



Oh I am in agreement with that


Ethics and morality is probably the school of thought that appeals to me the most. It's what I invest most of my time in. I know by experience I don't see eye to eye with everyone. I am perfectly fine with this. I know in my heart I am moral.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 06:21 PM
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I don't think WE allow, or condone such lewd behavior. Why do you keep saying that?

Just because she did what she did, doesn't mean you have the right to say she is dumb or a whore.

Who here thinks what she did is all good? No one here has said that.

I don't think a photo is a permanent document, last time I checked anyway. Why can't a photo be deleted?

Yes, you have changed my views also. I now know that some people just can't grasp a point someone is trying to make to them. Oh well, your loss.









edit to clearify



[edit on 17-10-2008 by schism85]



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by whatukno
I agree with this punnishment.

If an adult did it, they would be charged with this crime, just because it was the girl that did it to herself does not mean that naked pictures of a 15 year old girl wern't created. The photos are the problem here. She willingly and with forthought commited a crime and therefore should be punnished to the fullest extent of the law in this case.

This will learn her to not be a little whore.




Man! You have problems! Why does this make you so angry??? I can't believe you're serious... As for the 'little whore' accusation, assuming she's never been convicted of prostitution, she could probably sue you for rather a lot of money.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 06:23 PM
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Technically a crime but actually just a stupid kid trick. The punishment should be no cell phone at all for a while and then a cell phone with no camera so the little ditz can't get herself into real trouble with a sexual predator.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 06:27 PM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


You are entitled to your opinion on this issue. I respect that even though I don't agree with you. I can't see where you are coming from any more than you can see where I am coming from.

Having strong morals is one thing, but rigidity is another. Morally, I think that child molestors, child pornographers, and sexual predators should be punished to within an inch of their sorry lives.....but I am also morally flexible enough to judge each case based on the circumstances, people involved, intent, and results and not blanket every situation with the same generalization just because a naked picture is involved.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


I said to myself that I would give up by now. Anyways, I wouldn't let this change the way you see ATS now, just because people don't see eye to eye with you. I think its a pretty big leap to say that we are all morally corrupt, just because we don't agree with you 100%. It must feel like everyone is ganging up on you, but really all we are trying to do is make you see our point too, which it seems like you keep ignoring.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 06:33 PM
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Originally posted by whatuknoThis will learn her to not be a little whore.


If you define whore by someone who takes a nude photo of themselves and shares it with a boyfriend and a few friends you need to buy a dictionary. I doubt if this were a male you’d be using such a phrase to describe a child who did something that was misguided, not criminal or necessarily “whorish”, as I think you’d classify it.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by whatukno
This child has acted in an adult manner. Yet she is a child. She has produced something that in an adults or another person's hands would be in fact a criminal photograph.


But it isn't in another person's hands, unless you're planning on charging the teacher and principal with possession of child pornography? We don't in fact know this picture didn't have artistic pretensions, but it doesn't matter.


Now she has obviously done wrong, her caregivers are no longer in control of this situation because the boyfriend who was the recipient of the photograph was caught with the photograph in school. Obviously he was showing inappropriate material off to his friends when the teacher got wind of it and saw the photo.


If in fact this is what happened, I certainly hope the boy is punished for being a schmuck and a jerk. By his parents. Maybe a little peer ostracization would be in order too, but I'll leave that up to the kids. Teenagers are pretty good at leveling their own punishments, as I recall.

I still don't understand how you conclude that her caregivers are no longer in control. She did a stupid thing. Did you never do stupid things as a teenager? If you did, should the police have been involved?

Kids do dumb things, especially where sex is concerned. They almost never do them in front of their parents or caregivers; usually they do them at school or elsewhere. Then the parents find out, and it is their responsibility to instruct the child. That's what being a parent, foster or natural, is about.


I do not agree with the punishment that is given in the OP. No we don't need to punish this young lady for the rest of her life for bad judgment. However we cannot allow child porno to be created, nor can we condone such lewd behavior by minors.


Why do "we" have to do anything about this case? Why can't we just drop it and wish the poor girl could have learned her lesson in an easier way? And who is condoning such behavior? Plenty of things that are not condoned are not prosecuted as crimes. This is a point I haven't seen you address once.


The problem is that this young lady is doing something that can have major consequences to her later in life. Had this photograph gotten out onto the internet... (either by her bf breaking up with her and sharing the photo with his friends or an adult getting ahold of it and posting it online) She would have a hard time getting it removed if she could at all.


See, this is where I'm in total agreement with you. The person most likely to be harmed by this girl's thoughtless action is herself. She has discovered that if you send naked pictures out into the world, it has a way of becoming public knowledge. Don't you think she's feeling pretty embarrassed, not to mention betrayed? In my recollection of being a fifteen-year-old girl, embarrassment and betrayal were much more potent teaching mechanisms than community service.


Has she committed a crime? Yes

Does she deserve to be punished? Yes


If she has committed a crime according to the statutes of the state she's in, then you are right on the first count. But not on the second. If she had exposed herself to her boyfriend behind the school building, she would have been "guilty" of public indecency, but surely you wouldn't drag her to court about it?


Will making her go to counseling make her understand the issues at hand? I doubt it, after all shes dumb enough to send a teenage boy nude photos of herself. Obviously shes not too bright.


What on earth does her intelligence have to do with it? Haven't we all done stupid things under the influence of teenage hormones? Or are you one who believes that "good" girls and "smart" girls just don't like sex?


If it were up to me this is what I would do...

I would charge her with Lewd conduct, & Contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Give her a suspended maximum sentence. Perhaps sentence her to probation and assign her some community service.

I would also strongly recommend counseling. If she chooses to go it probably would benefit her self esteem. If not unfortunately you cannot force someone into counseling.


Well, that's better than labeling her a sex offender, but still in my opinion unnecessary and (except perhaps the counseling) less effective as a deterrant to future unwise actions than letting guardians handle it.


Now as far as those posters that feel that she has done nothing wrong and that sending indecent and pornographic materials from one teen to another teen is all good. I have to say that this view is disturbing, disgusting, inappropriate, wrong, and altogether atrocious. Why do I feel this way about photographs and not about two teens having sex with each other? The reason is two teens having sex with one another more than likely won't be viewed by anyone else.

While it is illegal for adults to have sex with children, it should not be illegal for two teenagers to have sex with each other. After all they are teenagers and will do this anyway.

The major difference is that no permanent document is made. No photograph is now in existence.


What about all the generations of teenagers who were having sex in cars and suddenly found themselves in the glare of a cop's flashlight? They didn't think anyone else would see them either, but someone did. My experience was that the cops usually said "zip it up and move along," though sometimes we were in for a bit of teasing first.

As for the permanent document, don't you understand that this is the punishment for the girl? Knowledge of this will do more to convince her and her friends that sending their boyfriends naked pictures is dangerous than any suspended sentence could. At least if this was kept as a private matter, all the photos could be deleted from phones, instead of having to keep copies in court records!


I hope you all understand my point now. I am out of this thread. As I have said before, my views on the morality of the people of this board are forever changed in a negative way. For those that know me, for someone to offend my sense of morality is pretty bad.


I'm sorry that you have seen this thread that way. I have seen very few responses that implied that what had happened was of no moral concern, just of no criminal concern.

-adb



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 06:54 PM
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Another point I must make is that the kids of today are NOT the kids of yesterday. Due to the way information is freely available and what is expected of kids in terms of idols, celebrities, and rolemodels, the definition of kid I think has been drastically changed over the past twenty years.

When I was in middle school, sex was common. This was only ten years ago, actually a little less. The girls knew what it was, how to do it, and what happens if you dont cover up your member. They knew about diseases, and they knew about statutory rape and all these other laws. They were not the innocent little barbies playhouse girls that everyone thinks their daughters are. And sadly, the age of experimentation has been steadily going down over the years.

These days, what was going on in middle school is now beginning in late elementary school! Kids in 4th and 5th grade being caught with drugs, having sex in the bathrooms, and incidents such as this only with younger kids. Who do we blame? The parents? the media? society in general? With a focus on sex and perfect female body its no wonder someone who is growing up, going through changes, and hormonal imbalances may do something such as this. Does that make them a bad person? No. Should they be punished? of course, but not ten years on a sex offender list.

Certain laws need to be revised over time. In this case, it shows that while it is a very much needed law, the way it is currently written can result in what I would consider cruel and unusual punishment for flashing someone, albeit digitally. Laws need to accomodate the teen to teen relationships accordingly. As someone said earlier, you cannot charge her as an adult for taking pictures of herself as a child - thats so backwards. She needs to be charged as a child if thats what it is, child pornography, and no child should ever recieve something as harsh as this for a mistake. She wasn't taking pictures and putting them on a website, selling them, or anything like that. This was a private picture that she never intended to be seen by anyone other then the intended recipient. If anything, the guy who went around showing everyone the picture should be held accountable more so then the girl, although again - give a teenager a naked picture and hes going to show his friends, so that must be addressed in a matter relative to the crime.

Such a tough situation and I hope this girl gets through this ok. I think by blowing this up into such a big deal is actually doing more harm then if they kept this a private matter. Why does the world need to know the girl sent out a private picture to a private person? Let the parents deal with this, but this no way deserves to be the horrible, damaging, situation that it is currently.

I have a feeling this is only the beginning. Many more teenagers will be seen on this sex offender list as more and more of them make the same mistakes all teens make, just this time the ones who get caught are going to be ruined instead of punished.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 06:55 PM
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Alright WhatuKno you gave your closing thoughts, so I will give you mine too.

reply to post by whatukno
 



This child has acted in an adult manner


A child did not act in an adult manner. That is what you are unwilling to acknowledge. A teen acted in a teen manner.


Why do I feel this way about photographs and not about two teens having sex with each other? The reason is two teens having sex with one another more than likely won't be viewed by anyone else.

Had this photograph gotten out onto the internet...


I understand that concern.

Why not...

...use the child porn laws as they were originally intended and we will punish those adults that acquired the footage for the purpose of sexual exploitation. At which point I am also okay with calling the footage child porn.

You are attributing a malicious intent to this teen girl based on the hypothetical outcome of the footage. That's really silly to me. Again, let's just go after those adults when the hypothetical actually occurs. Let's not play Minority Report here. Let's also not punish the inventor of science because we got nuclear bombs from it.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

I think a mandatory educational video, and a month suspension of her cell phone should be the entirety of her punishment.


I completely agree with you there. With myself being a 16 year old, any person my age who thinks their in a serious relationship sends pictures. This article is bias AGAINST the girl. Since her parents already know, mayb a month or two of her cellphone banned, and a good talking to. I bet you $10 this girl has trusted these guys while they've gone out, and they've never deleted the picture when i ended.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by Chalky01
 


It's good to hear from someone who is in that age group, and can shed some light on the behavior of people these days as opposed to twenty years ago. The older generations do not understand what they had when they grew up is completely different then what the younger generations have. Our society is more focused on money, sex, fame, power and war, we learned from what we grew up around. The older generations had a much stronger upbringing due to parents actually being parents. These days the kids are plopped in front of a TV to absorb all the wonderful things the media has to offer. /* sarcasm */ The old notion of parent is long gone in my opinion. Disciplining your kids has drastically changed, you are no longer allowed to teach them a proper lesson. I remember getting owned with a belt for stealing a quarter off my dads desk, and guess what - I never thought twice about stealing the rest of my life. The courts are turning into the parents sadly, deciding what they think is best instead of the parents. Government is getting too involved with things that should be personal matters, and until we start reverting back to the way society used to be, without the fame, sex, drugs, and socialite lifestyle that we see everywhere around us.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 09:02 PM
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I can't believe this thread is still going on WTF????

Seems like a minority of posters/trolls maybe?? want to see this girl destroyed. Why..... why..... no need for that. Seems as though she's had a tough enough go of it already. Sex offender for 10 years??? Do you have any idea what that will do to her??? My heart goes out to this girl. Shame on you all!



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 09:35 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I was born when there were less than 50 states in the union, so I'm a fossil. Yet, in that bygone era human stupidity was just as rampant. And sex, while maybe not discussed, was alive and well. Things have changed to a great extent, but the more they change, the more they stay the same.

The real difference is that now children feel they should think for themselves, as opposed to the old "Father Knows Best" attitude. We adults wanted this change, actually foisting it on our children. Johnny can come home and nuke his own super while Mom and Dad chase the almighty dollar. Little Lucy can babysit her 9 year old brother while the folks have a well deserved night on the town because we have burglar alarms and nanny cams. And when they do think for themselves, and make errors in judgment, (as this young lady did), we want to punish them for the remainder of their lives because they lacked the common sense values we never took the time to instill in them.

Kids aren't born knowing the right choices to make. That's why we call them children and don't allow them to have all the freedom and rights of an adult. It's why there is a very long maturing process for the human animal; to give them time and experience to learn the rules of life.

Yes, she needs to be aware of consequences. But not to the point that these consequences should adversely effect her for life. Would any moral adult seeing a child reaching for a pan of boiling water say, "Little Annie needs to learn, so we'll just let her burn." Or if she set the house on fire playing with matches, want her charged with arson or even destruction of private property? So why would it be right to allow her to be tagged as a sexual deviant because as a child she did a very stupid act? What, aside from the cruelty of adults, would that teach her?

I feel that part of the reasoning here is the prevalent Nanny State Syndrome. Because parents are not allowed to punish children, the burden of child rearing is falling to The State. And The State is a blind, devouring, heartless, machine.

Yes, she needs punishment. But just as 10 minutes in a time out corner seems forever to a 6 year old, so does 3 months of community service to a teen. (Remember the last few months waiting to get your drivers permit? As Einstein explained it, time really is relative.)




As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 10:40 PM
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posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by mystiq
The reason she got caught was probably had nothing to do with her foster parents not loving her. They probably where required by law to report the incident to the state agency overseeing foster home placement. Would have been required even if there was not a law against such activity. I work with adults in the mental health system. If I found out one of them was engaging in such activity I would be required to report it even if it is there legal right to do so.

This is just another example of making laws that turn regular people or kids into criminals and giving law enforcement and prosecutors to much say over who gets punished. The law is bad and needs to be changed.
 



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 11:50 PM
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Hey, I just gotta add my 2 cents worth…

… but this is just another case of

PARENTAL DELINQUENCY!!!!

Why in the world does a child NEED a cell phone in the first place? I’ll tell you what the problem is, it’s the PARENTS that don’t have enough back bone to say, “I don’t care if you’re the only kid in school without a cell phone, you don’t need one.” Are they going to persecute the kids who do web cam porn, too? ((Don't tell me it doesn't happen.)) The kid DOES need to learn a lesson, BUT TEN YEARS?!

IT IS THE PARENTS WHO NEED TO DO SOME TIME!!!!

Could you imagine reading the headlines on a story about a toddler given a hammer as a toy to play with? If the little tike killed the cat or broke something, who would you blame?
“Bad Junior!”
NOT!

Go ahead, plea the common and predictable response… “everybody does it; all the kids in school have phones.”


I will follow this case, though. If they actually follow through with the prosecution of this girl and the kids who received the pictures, the prosecutors should be forced to get their heads examined after being disbarred.
This is complete and utter lunacy!



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 01:09 AM
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reply to post by apaulo
 


A fifteen year old without a cell phone is the minority. Most teens have cell phones.

And that's not a delinquency of a parent. Saying the parents should spend time in jail doesn't make any sense. In this case it's a foster harm btw, and the caretakers shouldn't spend time in jail either.

My parents gave me a cell phone when I was a teen specifically so I could contact them in case of emergency.


Go ahead, plea the common and predictable response… “everybody does it; all the kids in school have phones.”




[edit on 18-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]



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