Originally posted by Simplynoone
You (LowLevel) said you found the New Agers to be silly in thinking some space ship may come ..Well I find that your rituals and things you do at your meetings to be silly too for a bunch of grown men to be doing.

And, of course, most of the world thinks both are equally silly. You'll notice that any major chain bookstore lumps their Masonic books on the same shelves along with the UFO and Cayce and Wiccan and love charm books. Not in religion. Not in self help. Not in philosophy. (If I had more energy tonight, I'd half be tempted to see what Dewey Decimal or Library of Congress subject headings Masonic texts fall under... how they're categorized and what else they're grouped with or a subset of...)

Originally posted by J.Smit
Christians are meant to be in the World, yet not a part of it, not unequally yoked with unbelievers.

Ah, so you're of the opinion that true Christians should separate themselves from the world... perhaps go off and live on a ranch somewhere. Maybe Waco, or San Diego. Maybe Guyana, if San Francisco gets too hot for you?

Yeah. That always ends well.

Originally posted by J.Smit
Back to the Masons: whatever you do, no matter how you do it, you're damned if you turn God the Father into GAOTU with a lot of names. Jesus did all to the glory of the Father. He would have mentioned GAOTU if God was GAOTU. He did not.

I did not join Masonry for salavation as it does not offer such. I did however join, among other noble reasons, because I gravitated towards its concept of tolerance and acceptance towards others of the Fraternity despite their own personal beliefs.

Unrepentent Masons are damned.

Says you.

Jesus as many in this thread call him, said he did NOTHING IN SECRET and in fact he didn't. There are several other verses about being in these secret societies and the consequences, but who wants to listen to our Creator these days. Masonry is Satanic worship and the highest masons all know this, read the "Masonic Bible" Morals and Dogma by Albert Pike and he says it plain as day that they serve Satan and hide this secret from the lower ranks. If you claim to be Christian and Mason you are lying about something, or claiming that which has been disavowed by the one you claim to serve...

Get out of Masonry, Knights of Columbus and any other Secret Society groups out there if you want o serve the Creator. You can not serve two Masters and if you take the Oaths of Masonry and other such groups you have a Master.

One last thing, in the Bible it says that men sit and plot against God's plan in secret, and he who sits in Heaven LAUGHS. The Creator thinks your funny with your little conspiracies and plots...

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
Jesus as many in this thread call him, said he did NOTHING IN SECRET and in fact he didn't. There are several other verses about being in these secret societies and the consequences, but who wants to listen to our Creator these days. Masonry is Satanic worship and the highest masons all know this, read the "Masonic Bible" Morals and Dogma by Albert Pike and he says it plain as day that they serve Satan and hide this secret from the lower ranks. If you claim to be Christian and Mason you are lying about something, or claiming that which has been disavowed by the one you claim to serve...

Get out of Masonry, Knights of Columbus and any other Secret Society groups out there if you want o serve the Creator. You can not serve two Masters and if you take the Oaths of Masonry and other such groups you have a Master.

One last thing, in the Bible it says that men sit and plot against God's plan in secret, and he who sits in Heaven LAUGHS. The Creator thinks your funny with your little conspiracies and plots...

I am a Christian, and a Mason.

I serve only one master, and that is God.

God is the supreme creator, and ruler, of the universe.

Masonry offers no plan for salvation, and doesn't require me to alter my Christian beliefs in any way. In fact, since joining masonry I have attended church more than at any other point in my life.

If anything, masonry has reinforced my beliefs in Faith, Hope and Charity, and it has reinforced my beliefs of a world beyond our physical existence.

Furthermore it has caused me to examine myself, and my actions, and to give more attention to others in need, to love my neighbor, to be a responsible citizen and to love and cherish my family.

So, while freemasonry does not offer anything in the way of religion, it has helped enhance my Christian beliefs; more so, I would say, than any other activity in my life.

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
Jesus as many in this thread call him, said he did NOTHING IN SECRET and in fact he didn't.

I am so tired of this argument because its not only wrong its based in assumptions that are wrong. Freemasonry is not secret. Never has been, never will be. Get over it.

Additionally, I am so tired of people perverting what Jesus Christ did and did not do. People are so busy and so deleriously excited to condemn others to hell that everyone FORGOT TO STOP AND READ THE BOOK. The bible is very clear, even though some of it isn't the direct words of Jesus Christ. And here is what the good book says:

That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.

- Matthew 6:18

That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

- Matthew 6:4

For the froward is abomination to the LORD: but his secret is with the righteous.

- Proverbs 3:32

The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

-Deuteronomy 29:29

For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

- Ecclesiastes 12:14

Now stop this nonsense. The last verse clearly shows that secrets are not by their nature evil and that god will judge all, and that if the secrets are good, then there is nothing wrong with them. Disagree? Take up with your God, for the Bible is clear and that's all the confirmation I need.

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
There are several other verses about being in these secret societies and the consequences, but who wants to listen to our Creator these days. Masonry is Satanic worship and the highest masons all know this, read the "Masonic Bible" Morals and Dogma by Albert Pike and he says it plain as day that they serve Satan and hide this secret from the lower ranks. If you claim to be Christian and Mason you are lying about something, or claiming that which has been disavowed by the one you claim to serve...

No, no it does not. There are no verses that say such things, your making it up - but thats what most people do these days. They make up a God that fits what they want Him to say instead of reading what He has already said.

You truly have no idea of what satanic is - Freemasonry is not satanic in the least. There is no religion in Freemasonry, so its rather hard to turn it evil as much as you want it to be. You will learn to be wise and do your research before making statements you clearly know nothing about "Morals and Dogma" is no more the bible of Freemasonry than the proclamations of a parish priest the bible of Christianity.

If you claim to be a Christian and make such ignorant and pompous statements, you are lying about something, and I pray God will lift the scales from your eyes.

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
Get out of Masonry, Knights of Columbus and any other Secret Society groups out there if you want o serve the Creator. You can not serve two Masters and if you take the Oaths of Masonry and other such groups you have a Master.

Get out of your false teachings, get out of your pompous hypocrisy, get out of your glee to condemn others. You cannot serve two Masters and if you do these things you already have a Master, and it is not God.

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
One last thing, in the Bible it says that men sit and plot against God's plan in secret, and he who sits in Heaven LAUGHS. The Creator thinks your funny with your little conspiracies and plots...

You know God condemns those who add anything to the Bible that he did not say, and you are yet again making up things the Bible does not say. I am sure that God does NOT think your funny with this.

On behalf of all Christians, I am sorry for people like this.

Originally posted by J.Smit
Well, thank you. It is clear, from your post (follow link above, and the next one a few postings down), that no Freemason can be a true Christian.

It is very clear to me that Christians to condemn others without knowing anything about the subject are not true Christians.

Originally posted by J.Smit
Christians are meant to be in the World, yet not a part of it, not unequally yoked with unbelievers. And in the sense of Christianity, unbelievers are those who refuse to believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ, that He is the only Way to eternal Life, and hang on to the Divine Fairytale of One God served by all, under different names.

Christians are meant to be wise and not quick to judge. And in the sense of Christianity, those believers who refuse to read the Word of God and instead sit in judgment against everyone are not real Christians.

Oh and of course it goes without saying that your wrong on this, but you know that (you just must get a kick out of judging people). There is nothing that has been said which says Christian freemasons do anything BUT believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ. In fact, had you bothered to research anything, you would know that Christian freemasons MUST do so, since they must be members of their own religion.

Originally posted by J.Smit
No Freemason who has heard the gospel before joining, or who was a Christian beforehand, shall enter into the Heavenly Kingdom, the New Jerusalem. Neither shall those who have heard it afterwards, yet kept on in their craft.

Those false prophets who sit in judgment against others will not enter into the Heaven.

Thankfully, my God knows of the true nature of Freemasonry and has no issues with it. Your God, which appears to be Satan, might, but I don't really care what followers of Satan like you think.

Originally posted by J.Smit
And never make the mistake of viewing Roman Catholicism as Christianity. Not while the Pope is calling for a one-world religion. Not while they sell sin through Indulgences.

Not while Mr Ratzinger keeps the Office of the Inquisition open, now called the "Holy Office," and still believes that the main aim of the RCC is currently the eradiaction of the protestants.

God will judge you for you bigotry, Satanist.

Originally posted by J.Smit
Back to the Masons: whatever you do, no matter how you do it, you're damned if you turn God the Father into GAOTU with a lot of names. Jesus did all to the glory of the Father. He would have mentioned GAOTU if God was GAOTU. He did not.

Oh what ignorance you speak. You must indeed be enchanted by Satan. Will you also condemn, El Shaddai, El Elyon, and all the other names of God for God that never appear in the English Bible? Has it occurred to you that Jesus Christ never used the name GOD in his life time, and yet you are using it and condemning others with it? How hypocritical.

Originally posted by J.Smit
You are a lot of religions thrown together. Ever heard of the Parliament of the World's Religions? I know you have. And i am sure, you are for it.

And you are like a den of vipers, be gone, follower of Satan.

Originally posted by J.Smit
Unrepentent Masons are damned.

Those who dam others who are not God are damned. Especially those who follow Satan, like you.

[See, I can accuse you of being a Satanist too. Enjoy.]

[edit on 20-10-2008 by LowLevelMason]

Originally posted by theindependentjournal

If you claim to be Christian and Mason you are lying about something, or claiming that which has been disavowed by the one you claim to serve...

You can not serve two Masters and if you take the Oaths of Masonry and other such groups ...

The Creator thinks your (sic) funny with your little conspiracies and plots...

These strident personal opinions (and let's be clear that they're just that -- personal opinions) exhibit a boastful certainty that, last time I checked, was not among the seminal traits of a Christian, those "fruits of the spirit" so carefully iterated by Paul in his letter to the Galatians -- love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance. (Notice how arrogance, pride, and malice seem to be missing?)

It is not edifying, and it is certainly not prompted by any moving of the Spirit in the writer -- it's motivated by pride. So in gentle rebuke, I offer these words of Jesus the Messiah. Read, ponder, and inwardly mark:

For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
Matthew 7:2 (NIV)

Now, let's get back to the love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance efforts, shall we?

Cheers,
Sandalfon

Originally posted by LowLevelMason

That has absolutely nothing to do with why the dark is north, and since when did someone declare the God's throne was in the north? The biblical reference to that is zilch - theres 1 verse that says at one point the "Glory of God" was in the North. Do you just make this stuff up as you go along?

Ancient Christian custom holds 'east' as the sacred direction from which Christ will return to his expectant people. This is easy to understand because east is the direction where the sun rises and from which light returns after darkness. (The metaphors are endless.)

"For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be"
Matthew 24:27 KJV)

Churches traditionally put their altars and pulpits at the east end of the building, because Christ would return "from the east."Architecturally, even when a church is not built on a true east-west line, the wall that the congregation faces, or where the altar is located is considered "east" for tradition's sake.

So, about "north" being asserted as the place where God dwells, this is a slight misunderstanding of scripture. (Of course, being omnipresent, God dwells anywhere everywhere, but for purposes of this particular Old Testament scriptural tradition, read on.)

Isaiah 14:13 (AKJV) says this:

"For you have said in your heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also on the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north ..."

About which, the Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary says:

mount of the congregation-the place of solemn meeting between God and His people in the temple at Jerusalem. In Da 11:37, and 2Th 2:4, this is attributed to Antichrist.

sides of the north-namely, the sides of Mount Moriah on which the temple was built; north of Mount Zion (Ps 48:2). However, the parallelism supports the notion that the Babylonian king expresses himself according to his own, and not Jewish opinions (so in Isa 10:10) thus "mount of the congregation" will mean the northern mountain (perhaps in Armenia) fabled by the Babylonians to be the common meeting-place of their gods. "Both sides" imply the angle in which the sides meet; and so the expression comes to mean "the extreme parts of the north." So the Hindus place the Meru, the dwelling-place of their gods, in the north, in the Himalayan mountains. So the Greeks, in the northern Olympus. The Persian followers of Zoroaster put the Ai-bordsch in the Caucasus north of them. The allusion to the stars harmonizes with this; namely, that those near the North Pole, the region of the aurora borealis (compare see on [709]Job 23:9; Job 37:22) [Maurer, Septuagint, Syriac].

Masonic lodges are, of course, oriented with their seat of authority in the east, as well.

Cheers,
Sandalfon

[edit on 20-10-2008 by Sandalfon]

Originally posted by theindependentjournal

[Well I use the Authorized KJV Red Letter Edition, which is considered by most to be the Accurate and True WORD.

(Color added by Sandalfon)

Really? There's that judgement thing again. I always love the pseudo-authoritative "most" citation. (i.e. "most" of the people at my church; "most" of the people I talk to on line; "most" of the pastors in my particular denomination, etc.)

So unless you've got it somewhere that Paul said: "Verily I say unto you, therefore, useth only thou the Authorized King James Version Red Letter Edition of the Holy Bible or a plague of locusts will descend upon your fields and the Lord God will smite you." -- I suggest we AGAIN, avoid being certain and judgemental and INSTEAD encourage people to use whatever translation and edition of the Bible they want.

Lastly, and seriously -- as logos (Gk: "word") Christ is himself the True Word. Be careful not to equate any particular version of his sacred scripture with the Lord himself. (To do might be, ironically, an accidental form of idolatry.)

Cheers,
Sandalfon

I think we should make something clear at this point. Albert Pike and Madame Blavatsky do not speak for Freemasonry.

In fact, no person speaks for Freemasonry.

Freemasonry likens the building of character to the operative masonic method of building a great structure.

Much as an architect can help you build a great building, ensuring that your structure meets all the accepted standards that society/government prescribe as 'right' without necessarily knowing or telling you what the building is to be used for, Masonry teaches you how to build your character according to the standards of behavior set by God (faith, hope, charity, truth, brotherly love, relief of the distressed) without actually prescribing what your faith in God and religious practice are.

Masonry does not care what name you ascribe to God, but be assured it IS God, the infinite, the divine, the supreme creator and ruler of the universe.

You cannot be a true Satanist or Atheist and be a Mason. Freemasonry goes against everything that Satanism and Atheism teaches.

Aside from asking if you believe in God, Freemasonry never asks about the nature of that belief, or the name you give Him. You will only be happy in masonry if you believe in the one true 'I AM'.

Personally, I believe there is no name that can be given to God by man that is correct.

So, whether you call Him El, El Shaddai, Adonai, Elohim, Shepherd, Judge, El Elyon, Abhir, Kadosh, Yeshua, Gaol, Magen, Stone, Zur, Malech, Father, The First and The Last (Old Testament) or Kurios, Despotes, Theos, I AM, Word, Almighty, Alpha and Omega (New Testament)... Freemasonry requires that you believe in Him, but does not address or condemn any belief in Christ.

Originally posted by theindependentjournal


I won't even start on the Shriners nor their connection to Islam and therefore the Pontificus Maximus the Pope and Rome. All this information is freely available to anyone who seeks it out.

Of course not. That would mean you would have to present evidence and not just opine/flame/troll...

[edit on 10/20/08 by emsed1]