Katrina EXPOSED! Must Watch! This makes me sick!!

Originally posted by stinkhorn
reply to post by KaginD

 

Lol, so you sit there and bitch about the government not coming soon enough then go on to say they told you to stay there. Duh, maybe you should not rely on the government anymore.

Humans have lost touch with their survival instincs and have become fat, lazy, greedy slobs. You have 5 days to get away from a hurrican, go buy a $10.00 tent at walmart and start walking north or inland, dont listen to the governement when they tell you everything is fine, you will be safe with us, thats the time to take your life in your own hands.

I'm not going to sit here and explain the services our taxes pay for to you. Do some research. Me, I pay taxes.. And when something big goes down I expect to have those services I paid for come in and DO WHAT I PAID THEM TO DO. Bottom line. These people suffered, and they shouldn't have. I am not going any further on this topic with you. I will leave you with this. You might want to read up on what your taxes pay for. Its bad enough we are getting scammed into paying them to begin with, but it makes it 10x worse when they don't even provide the tax payers with the service promised in return. It has nothing to do with "depending on the gov." How would you feel if you went to a store and paid for something then the clerk turns around and don't give you what you bought?? Would you simply say I shouldn't have depended on her to give me what I paid for???

The video still shows the horror of total unorganized chaos from all levels.

reply to post by Simon_Boudreaux



You know....I am very capable of surviving in the wilderness just as you are. I know what to eat, and what not too. I can build a shelter out of what ever is available. But...that doesn't make me better than someone who can't. You come across that just because you can do it, everyone should and can. Sorry...it doesn't work that way.

......and, you make me feel very disturbed that you still think it is funny that people were stuck on their roofs. Do you have any idea what that water contained? Sewage, trash, and oh yeah...how about the people who died that were floating in the water?! No way...anyone in their right mind, would have just jumped into that water. Survival or not, the water was not a safe place to be.

About the looting.....I agree that there were some that just looted for the heck of it. But why are you just pointing out the ones that did it in NO? What about Hurricane Andrew of '92. (this is the one that hit Miami). I remember watching the news and seeing all the people looting there as well. No matter where you are, there will always be looters. To just say that they stayed behind to loot...maybe true for some, but you make it sound like all stayed behind to do just that.

Nope...I absolutely don't agree with you on this.

Yes....you and I know how to survive. Good for us. But I don't come down on those that don't have this ability.

Originally posted by TARBOX
About the looting.....I agree that there were some that just looted for the heck of it. But why are you just pointing out the ones that did it in NO? What about Hurricane Andrew of '92. (this is the one that hit Miami). I remember watching the news and seeing all the people looting there as well.

The looting was THE LEAST OF IT! They were shooting at helicopters trying to pick up near dead patients at the hospitals. Was that happening in Miami?

So far I have been unable to even post on this thread ..mainly because I was CRYING SO HARD for those people then (when I watched it all unfold) and I am CRYING AGAIN NOW >...it makes it hard to type when tears are running down your face..


There were some really great posts made in this one and alot said that needed to be said .
I starred a couple of you for sure.

There are a few things though that need to be cleared up.
1st of all ...How is that the GOV could not have known what was happening when WE ALL KNEW from the TV from the first day it happened ...
Yeah right ok ..they dont watch TV right ..NOT >..
That whole event and WHY It took place the way it did WAS A SET UP ..
The GOV was just waiting for the masses to BEG THEM TO TAKE OVER >
TO be the SAVIOURS and come to the rescue ...(Problem reaction solution)
There was no doubt in my mind that it was planned to come down the way it did .It gave way to FEDERAL TAKE OVER of STATE AND LOCAL (everything)
So who benefited from this mess ..YES THE GOV ..sweeping POWERS now by PERMISSION Of we the people .....what a grand plan that was ..
It also was planned to show the peoples that you cannot survive without the help of the GOV ......(We need their food and water and their physical presence to keep law and order mentality) or WE ALL DIE >..(TOTAL DEPENDANCE ON THE GOV Is what they WANT And what we will willingly give them over time due to events happening just like that one did) ..What has been before will be again ..nothing new under the sun ..Think back to the days of PHAROH during the FAMINE ....He had everyone enslaved using what they needed the most ..(Food and water etc ) .....

Another thing needed to be addressed from some posts in this thread (The blame game )....
RAY NAGIN ...CRIED pleaded and begged for help (DAY 1 ) of that mess .I listened to him on the NOLA News online ...that DAY and every day after that ..... >.
Brown testified at the hearings that THEY (THE GOV) KNEW ABOUT IT ALL from DAY ONE >>(He was another fall guy in that mess just like Nagin was) ...

Didnt yall watch the hearings on Katrina ? It was very enlightening about what happened .....Why the GOV has not been arrested for all of that mess is beyond me ...That was out and out MURDER on their part if you ask me of the POOR in NO ...
And do not think it cant happen to you ..Because it will more than likely keep happening just like it did in Katrina .

Originally posted by Sonya610

Originally posted by TARBOX

The looting was THE LEAST OF IT! They were shooting at helicopters trying to pick up near dead patients at the hospitals. Was that happening in Miami?

Please don't get me wrong....I am not condoning it in the slightest bit. NO was far worse than anyone can imagine. My point was that there are those that stayed just for this purpose and this purpose alone. And...Miami had aid faster than NO if I remember correctly. That's not an excuse however for those that shot at the helicopters. It was plain wrong and they should be held accountable.

Your posts are well thought out and they are noted seriously.

reply to post by KaginD


CajinD

What services did taxes pay for that the Government should provide for in the middle of a disaster?

Sewage service, chlorinated water, trash service, cable tv, public attorney, law enforcement, fire fighting, paved roads perhaps, sorry if there are any I left out.

Your feeling of indignance is apparent in your last post.

The announcement was made and knowledge given several days prior to the hurricane landfall to evacuate. That means that the Government is not going to be responsible for providing those creature comforts in the near future.

Implied in that is also the fact that those services will be temporairly interrupted.

And those who choose to ignore the ample warnings, are assuming those responsibilities upon themselves.

Unfortunately, those who died were most likely, under the care and protection of an adult, whether they were children, or elderly, or ill, all of those vulnerable age level people were relying on an able adult for guidance and direction. Unfortunately, the Government did not fly in on angel wings delivering food, clothing, water, blankets, medical, trash removal or a host of expected services and needs.

To expect the Government to have done that is in my humble opinion, irrational. It is irrational to expect the Government to be so Omnipotent and Omnipresent as to be capable of responding to the magnitude of this natural/manmade disaster.

Like some other non-US residents on here, I have been unable to watch the video. That site doesn't function in my country. I tried a proxy server as suggested by a poster on page 4 of this thread -- my sincere thanks for your help -- but still no success.

My main interest in watching the video is to see if it contains things that were not previously shown to us on TV news reports here. I've heard that US reports may have been "sanitized" to some degree, but whether that is true or not is something I can't confirm and this video might help with that. It also might contain some telling truths about the way things were handled for those of us in other countries to take note of, especially as we all have governments that are far from perfect.

Mike

The evacuation of New Orleans was actually quite successfull. They managed to get millions of people out within a short period of time with a limited number of hangups.

No one could say they didn't see this coming. Studies after studies showed that if a major hurricane were to hit New Orleans, there would be major problems.
yes, that the levees would break and the parishes would flood.

AS for the people who chose not to go:

Lets look at it this way. The majority of the population of New Orleans is poor.

80% of the population still made it out. So poverty really had nothing to do with it.

The majority of the people that stayed behind were old. 75% of the victims that died were over 60. Half of those were over 75 years old.

A poll was taken of katrina victims asking why they did not leave. Most did not say it was a lack of transportation, in fact many reported they did have a way out.
They reported it was because they did not think the storm was going to be as bad as it was.
Over half reported that they could of left if they had wanted to.

Out of those who stayed behind, the coast gaurd rescued 34,000 people without even waiting for orders.

34,000 people actually isn't a complete sign of neglect.
So before totally blasting rescue efforts, think about that number.

Harvard did a survey after Katrina on people living in high risk hurricane areas. They interviewed several thousand people and while posting scenes of the Superdome, asked if they would leave if government officials ordered an evacuation. 25% of them said they would not. Because they thought their homes would survive a major hurricane.

Nagin was advising people to evacuate on Saturday. That was a full 48 hours before the storm hit. I saw that thing churning through the gulf for a full week before coming to New Orleans.

this wasn't a surprise people.

If you are evacutating somewhere, why don't you have your medicines, food, and water with you?

That doesn't make sense to me.

New Orleans isn't the first city to flood. And Florida sits at sea level as well.

There aren't any excuses. None. For people not taking their welfare into their own hands.

The police officers in New Orleans don't even have full uniforms. The area is not capable of taking care of their own people. What makes you think someone is going to rescue you in 24 hours?

I go hiking for a few hours, but I always pack at least 2 days worth of food,lighters, and water, just in case.

Because I don't pretend that if I am gonna get lost, someone will find me in 12 hours.

But then when I lived in Arizona I would watch people go hiking in the desert with no water at all, so there are dummies everywhere.

If I was in that town with a hurricane coming, and I had children, there would be nothing stopping me to make sure my family is safe.

Am I sad it happened? Of course I am. It must of been terribly frightening.
I feel bad for the children. Especially those whose parents didn't have enough forthought to prepare for them. One can of formula and a couple of bottles of water would of provided enough formula for a week. I love that city. There is none like it. The food and atmosphere is heavenly.
BUT

As for the looting, that is a sad ass excuse for stealing. Because a tv and dvd's isn't going to provide food and water.

As PP have pointed out. It is a bowl it is below sea level, it was flooded. And people couldn't get out. There is a big lake to the north. And it is a nice big lake.

So if you can't get out, and it is so dangerous, how do you expect rescue to get in?

It is a mouse trap.

The federal government can't respond to an emergency till they get the ok from the state. First Nagin delayed giving a mandatory evacuation because he was waiting for the ok from lawyers. He didn't want to get any lawsuits for ordering business out of town. There was a 14 hour delay that could of given more people (those who chose not to go) out of town.
Then the state delayed giving the government the ok. The governor is nothing short of a criminal and should be in solitary confinement for the rest of her life. Selling of the state to oil contractors, then delaying asking for help from FEMA. FEMA was ready to go, but couldn't because of her.

Local governments are strictly responsible for handling disasters. There was no prep made, barely a plan in place. Everyone knew in the farthest reaches of this country that NO couldn't handle a major storm. This is mainly the responsiblity of the local and state.

There were towns along the gulf that did not have a single death. Why? Becuase they had their own evacuation plans in place, that they practised constantly. And if someone gave the order to leave, whether government said so or not, people were timed at how fast they could pick up and go. they had an organized system into place. People had their food and water already prepared to leave. They all knew where to meet and how. And it went flawlessly.
And guess what? they were poor.

I dislike Bush just as much as the next guy. But he is not responsible for this.

What floors me is that in the aftermath, funds were approved to rebuild the superdome, before the hospitals were even finished. That boggles my mind to no end.


And what floors me even more is that one hurricane this summer that was heading straight for NO, (GUSTAV I think) caused an evacuation but didn't hit.
And all I saw on the news reports were people griping and snarking at how inconveinant it was to leave and nothing happened.

So I think no matter what, the government isn't going to win.

I think the biggest crime here is that the state sold off all the protective wetlands that allowed this disaster in the first place. To oil tycoons I believe. (funny how they keep rearing their ugly heads). Yet somehow not one cent benefited the people of NO or LA. Those are the true criminals and the politicians that are wallowing in the dough.











[edit on 12-10-2008 by nixie_nox]

reply to post by MorningStar8741


You must be an idiot to think that a liberal government made the internet, it was invented and implemented by the US military, of which there are very few liberals...hmm, i wonder why the US military votes more republican the democrat?

reply to post by nixie_nox


You sir are like myself, intelligent and informed. The problem with the liberals is ignorance and feelings over logic. Emotion with make you act without reason.

I would love to see a major disaster hit the world and if a poll could be taken afterwards, who would have survived more than another group.

I would be willing to bet liberals would die faster and in greater numbers while complaining more about how the gov isnt helping them, while the rest would make do with what they could and survive.

Nixie and stinkhorn i starred both of your posts.
Expecting the Government to be all and do all in a natural disaster bespeaks of a rather immature spiritual development of a Higher Power so to say.
I am conservative and would do what it takes to anticipate disasters and take logical, appropriate adult based action founded on that anticipation.

A poll, after a disaster, would expose the fallacy of just how much power the Government is supposed to wield in the face of nature.

Rescuing 34,000 people by the Coast Guard is remarkable.

How many people were in the Superdome?
How many of them died?
I would like the numbers to see if it is close to the bigger picture of deaths and how close it was to Greensburg Kansas.

I think the attepmt to make NO into a Neo-Con playground did not work out the way the alot of conservtives hoped.FEMA and all the rest of the "aid" agencies were sent in to make sure any and all natives of the city wolud be displaced and the rebuilding wolud bring in people who vote GOP.

reply to post by fmcanarney


Do you research anything at all??? You pay a FEDERAL INCOME TAX! FEMA is a FEDERAL FUNDED PROGRAM.. Therefore, they should have been there to help the people because the people pay the taxes that keep them going.. Wow, ignorance is bliss. That is all I am going to say to you. If you still don't get it then you should take a break from ATS and try to catch up..

That video is eye opening, being from Aus all I saw was watered down reports. It's absolutely disgusting of the US government. Any starving and neglected community would have done the same looting etc. under those circumstances.

When the reporter said that the flood barriers had failed, first thing I thought was that the failure was probably "assisted". It probably wasn't, but it's just how I feel

[On August 28, the Louisiana National Guard delivered three truckloads of water and seven truckloads of MREs (meals ready to eat), enough to supply 15,000 people for three days. There was no water purification equipment on site, no chemical toilets, no antibiotics and no anti-diarrheals stored for a crisis. There were no designated medical staff at work in the evacuation center. There was no established sick bay within the Superdome, and there were very few cots available that hadn't been brought in by evacuees. The mayor of New Orleans had, in fact, stated that as a "refuge of last resort," only limited food, water, and supplies would be provided. Residents who evacuated to the Superdome were warned to bring their own supplies.

When the flooding began on August 30, the Superdome began to slowly fill with water, though it remained confined to the field level. Later that day, Governor Blanco ordered New Orleans completely evacuated.[4] On August 31, it was announced that the Superdome refugees would move to the Reliant Astrodome in Houston, Texas. With no power and no water, sanitary conditions within the Superdome had rapidly deteriorated.[5] As of August 31, there had been three deaths in the Superdome: two elderly medical patients and a man who is believed to have committed suicide by
/ex]
http...://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effect_of_Hurricane_Katrina_on_the_Louisiana_Superdome[/url]

So there were 20,000 people in the Superdome.
Three died, but lets up that to twenty.
1/1000 deaths at the superdome.
500% less than those outside of the superdome and 1000% less than Greensburg Kansas.
Or 0.001% died in the Superdome.

That video is quite sad, but those of you who are lucky enough to watch it take heed.

I was in New Orleans and left Sunday afternoon prior to Katrina's arrival the next day. I had plenty of room for others, but nobody was looking for a ride and I saw no hitchhikers on my way out of town.

While I did have the means to get out of town and many didn't - the fact is most of those who stayed didn't expect it to become as bad as it did. Also, consider many who had no resources trusted the government to care for them at the stadium. Imagine being locked in a stadium like rats in a cage. Remember that when your offered a space in a FEMA camp - You will be a rat in a cage.

Bottom line - that's the facts of life. We are all responsible for ourselves and sadly those who cannot care for themselves or don't have anybody to care for them will always become victims in these types of situations.

While it's true after Katrina - our governments response seems like a complete failure, but if we were in a third world country all those people who stayed would have died with no external help for weeks- maybe you can thank the government for saving the rest of them.

Most Americans act like the world is Disneyland and somebody will always protect them, but like Disneyland, that is an illusion. When the going gets tough it is survival of the fittest. Wake up.

Thank you to the OP for bringing a taste reality to our attention and perhaps saving some of us in the future.


[edit on 13-10-2008 by verylowfrequency]

reply to post by verylowfrequency


I think it was very kind of you to offer strangers a ride out o harms way. I tend to think that people don't realize the severity of a situation until they have been through it. I know that before hurricane charlie, I thought it wouldn't be that bad.. Now, I live in PA because I would never want to be in a situation like that again. Its good that you got out before it was to late. I hope that everything is working well for your family now. Best of luck!

guys. to those who are calling this an error on the part of the US governement.

I would like to point out that I strongly believe that this was a deliberate act of negligence to aid the people specifically that a great deal of people would die, who would not otherwise.

to think of the logistics of transporting water to new orleans to save those from dehydration, this is not a difficult operation. It is absurd to believe that they did this by mistake, it has to have been deliberate.

reply to post by predisposed


I agree with you. We had the resources.. It was just a matter of getting it there, and they didn't. I don't depend on the government myself. I have been working on stocking up with food and water. So far I have about 3 months worth of canned goods, water, condensed milk, baby food, and warm clothes. My husband just bought a travel fishing rod today and he has more then enough protection.. I hope we never need to utilize this stock, but I will not put my sons life in someone else's hands..