Katrina EXPOSED! Must Watch! This makes me sick!!

reply to post by MorningStar8741


First off I am not talking about the sick and indegent, they cannot make it alone, I conceed that. I am talking about the overly healthy, fat asses that were just sitting around doing nothing for themselves. If you are one of them, maybe you should have gotten out of there before the storm hit, not everyone was trapped, some stayed and were fine.

Funny thing about hurricanes, you have about 5 days to get the hell away from it, where i live a tornado can blow you away without more than a 5 min warning, what the hell would you do with that little time?

Secondly, who gives a rats ass about compters or their connections, i am talking about human survival in a situation where your life depends on you knowing how to live and survive from the land.

Originally posted by stinkhorn
reply to post by Maya00a

 

Not everyone can live and most shouldn't. All humans had to survive on their own before big government, what has changed? People have become complacent and lazy. How many store extra water in their house for an emergency? I do, as well as dry goods, flashlights, batteries, flint, hunting knives, 2 axes, some shovels and a couple of hand saws.

You know what? I had enough food and supplies stored for at least 6 months even meat, I had 2 freezers full of meat. All that extra stuff, I watched it go underwater in a matter of 2 and a half hours, from a puddle on the street, to topping the eave of my roof.

You know what I was doing on Tuesday after the storm? I was back at work, helping get medical supplies to areas we could get them to, food and water too.

While many people in New Orleans were very poor, very few of them could ever be called lazy. You don't know the culture here.

But you do sound just like the kind of person the New World Order wants working for them, killing off the "worthless eaters" when the time comes, until they decide you are a worthless eater too.

You think stealing a plasma tv is survival, what about the guy stealing liquor? They were not thinking of survival, they were greedy period.

In some cases, you are right, but for many, they knew people who had supplies and weapons to defend those supplies. Do you know that a flat screen TV would trade for enough food and water to feed a family of 4 for a day? Yes, SOME people did things they should be ashamed of, but the majority of people just wanted to stay alive.

Until you go through it, you will never comprehend, you already KNOW you lost everything except what you have with you at that moment, it's all gone, flooded, ruined. And no one has food or water to GIVE away, you gotta barter for it, steal it, or die in the attempt.

I lived through it once, and while I saw the worst of my city on the televisions, I saw the best of my city up close and personal too.

If you have no compassion for your fellow human being, there is nothing anyone can say to change your thinking, and I guess that is even sadder to think about than what happened to New Orleans.

reply to post by KaginD


Lol, so you sit there and bitch about the government not coming soon enough then go on to say they told you to stay there. Duh, maybe you should not rely on the government anymore.

Humans have lost touch with their survival instincs and have become fat, lazy, greedy slobs. You have 5 days to get away from a hurrican, go buy a $10.00 tent at walmart and start walking north or inland, dont listen to the governement when they tell you everything is fine, you will be safe with us, thats the time to take your life in your own hands.

Originally posted by redhatty
Yes, SOME people did things they should be ashamed of, but the majority of people just wanted to stay alive.

The percentage of criminal records shows many of those people were stealing long before Katrina, and believe me many are stealing long after Katrina!

BTW...stealing a plasma TV isn't going to feed your family for a week if there is NO FOOD to exchange it for. They were NOT stealing electronics so they could feed their families, they were stealing because they had the chance! I would bet you that a LOT of them ran right past the food and water straight to the electronics department when they got into Walmart! Then a day later they thought "why ain't nobody willing to buy this tv? my babies be needing food!"

reply to post by redhatty


I have compassion, but I am also a realist. I know how to survive because I am smart, I would not rely on any agency to save me or my family. Humans have lost that ability or forgotten it.

Having stored meat is usless, you should have a case of MRE's in a water proof tote, you can buy them cheap, like 5 bucks at wal mart, the MRE's can be puchased by the case for an entire family cheaper than eating McDonalds for a week. They can last upwards of 5 years if kept dry.

No more excuses about the poor being unable to even think for themselves, why does being poor equate to being helpless?

You do not know I wasnt down there afterwards do you, I never stated one way or another. Maybe I was nearby in an area that was actually hit harder by the storm with people that could not even loot a store because there were none.

Originally posted by Sonya610

Originally posted by nfotech
I know you don't get this but when you and others post your contempt for the looters and those who took advantage of the system what you're really saying is all those poor people, especially those poor black people deserved to starve because some of them were criminals.

I have not seen ANYONE post that those people deserved to starve because they were criminals. However a LOT of the problems were in fact due to a criminal minded population that went crazy the first chance they got.

MIDDLETOWN, R.I. — After Hurricane Katrina (search) hit New Orleans, federal officials flew Brian Murph and more than 100 other victims to Rhode Island. State police did criminal background checks (search) on every refugee and found that more than half had a criminal arrest records — a third for felonies.
www.roanokeslant.org...

In South Carolina, authorities performed background checks on all 457 refugees flown into the state, turning up 301 with criminal records. In West Virginia, which received approximately 350 Katrina refugees, state police found that roughly half of them had criminal records.

One full THIRD had been convicted of felonies! Lets keep in mind that those were the ones that were actually CAUGHT and CONVICTED, not the ones that managed to avoid prosecution, or the ones that were underage and had their criminal records sealed when they turned 18. If half had been arrested and one third had been convicted of felonies can you imagine the number of crimes that go on everyday and were never prosecuted? That is a seriously twisted population of individuals.

The articles keep mentioning the total number of refugees they took in, and then the number of convicted criminals, it does not mention children. If the numbers also include underage offspring that means that the percentage of adult criminals was much much higher.

You are talking about a population with the mindset that thinks "going to prison is normal" because one out of every three people that you know has been there, and probably more than once! And those were only times they were caught!

Do not even TRY to pretend that is "normal" for poor people everywhere. It is NOT normal, very far from it.


[edit on 12-10-2008 by Sonya610]

Whose pretending? Obviously you are as you don't seem to have a clue just how many people in the US have criminal records.

Washington Post article on US offenders

According to Justice Department's Bureau of Justice Statistics in 2006 around 7% of the population are felons and one in 32 are still incarcerated or on probation / parole. If you were to add in any arrest record such as those for misdemeanors the ratio rises a lot higher. On average, 8% of African American males, 1.1% of white males and 2.6% of Hispanics have been to prison.

They place the blame on a "war on drugs" which has been a complete and total failure. It's no big secret that minority defendants have a much higher conviction rate not to mention they live in the areas targeted by drug dealers and drug cops.

I won't bother posting the millions of other links proving the point. What's clear is that people like you, who want to excuse the Bush administration's failure on this issue have to rely on stereotypes and racial prejudice to try and do so.

The criminal acts of some people don't matter in this case, especially when many were left with no alternative. People who were actually there were very clear that the looting was being performed by all types of people, racial and class structures didn't matter.

That worn out, redneck Republican bull# isn't working on people anymore. As a true conservative and balanced person I wish people who think like you would form your own Nazi party instead of making people like me look bad.

The people who were paid with our tax dollars to have a plan and be there to provide assistance failed, period. Nothing else matters.

All you people do who continue to hammer on about the fact that crimes were committed do is show the rest of us how narrow minded you are.

I just went through Ike and I have news footage of looters in boats being turned away from Galveston by assault rifle carrying deputies. Those looters are all white and can afford some pretty nice boats. Even now, after Katrina - FEMA and the federal govt still screwed up. Be very careful about looking down on poor people who were caught in a disaster. I can tell you first hand, if and when the time comes you need assistance you just might get the same treatment.

How can you not see that your attitude is about as un-American as one can be. We aren't supposed to condemn people by class or race in America. The fact that criminals were part of the population doesn't mean it's OK to let babies die for lack of a bottle of water.

There is inherent danger choosing to reside in a city near the gulf coast.
The inherent danger is usually understood by rational adults.

There is inherent danger in choosing to live in tornado alley, and that danger is understood and planned for by rational adults.

The disaster was sad and unfortunate and caused mainly by lack of rational response to reality.

Passion is often in conflict with reason. Feelings like "excitement to ride the storm out", "I can not leave my things they will get stolen", "I will not die unless it is my appointed time", "it is too much trouble", and other passionate musings, some of which were supported by the Mayor, who was subject to his own passions and feelings set up the inevitable tragedy and loss of life.

Passion and feelings kept NO people living there in the knowledge of the inherent danger.

The emotional, feeling and passion that caused rational people to continue to live below sea level, is the major contributing factor to the tragedy and loss of life in NO.

They continued to apply the emotional reasoning in spite of rational information given to them by their own senses and by officials in weather prediction and government.

They had years to move, prior to Katrina. Lots of people, myself being one who has not lived in the gulf coastal area after rationally considering the inherent danger there, am puzzled by others rational and reasoning to choose to live there.

Government cannot be expected to protect people from all danger, especially when the majority of rational adults recognize the inherent danger of living in a particular geographic area.

Greensburg Kansas, most people listened (weather reports, police loudspeakers, sirens and sound of approaching tornado) to reality and went into the basement. Ten people died the day the tornado obliterated the town of Greensburg Kansas. (Greensburg is a city in central Kiowa County, located in Southwest Kansas, in the Central United States. The population was 1574 at the 2000 census. )
1/157.4 people died that day. Or 0.006%

What is the % of NO residents that died, or how many people died out of every 157.4 people?

It is probably a lot lot less than Greensburg, Kansas.

Population of NO, 2000 census 484,674

At least 1,836 people lost their lives in the actual hurricane and in the subsequent floods

This calculates that 1/263.9 died.
Or 0.003%

Not barely half as bad as Greensburg Kansas.

In other words "If you cut your feet off using the lawnmower incorrectly, like you have been using it, don't come running to me."


[edit on 12-10-2008 by fmcanarney]

reply to post by redhatty


Come on man, these people and you know what I mean by that, were stealing tv's because they are greedy and think it belongs to them anyway because of slavery, they feel because they are so damn lazy, they deserve to take it, they are owed it. Disclaimer, this does not apply to all the people, just the ones looting # that will not help them survive.

The hamiliton hotel was looted of all its liquor, the water was left untouched, the fruits and vegitables were left to rot, all of the snack food was pilfered. Then of course they had to trash the place as well by breaking the toilets and spray painting all over the walls, hell, some even took the time to smear feces on the wall and front desk.

Yeah, good people there. What about when they got credit cards...lol. They went and bought things they needed like diapers right? Nope, plasma screen here I come baby!

Really, its all because "George Bush dont like black peepo".
www.youtube.com...



[edit on 12-10-2008 by stinkhorn]

[edit on 12-10-2008 by stinkhorn]

How lucky for you that you have so much knowledge and so many choices. That must be truly wonderful.

Perhaps some of the people who were in the Superdome "to shelter during the storm" – not being told that they would be prevented from leaving for the next five days – will do differently next time.

But maybe some compassion is in order?

As for the criminal records – the quote I saw on the last page was for arrests, not convictions (1/3 had arrest records). And it doesn't say what those arrests are for – perhaps it was for buying a $5 bag of crack from a police officer – that's a felony charge I believe. But it is not stealing, and it is not a violent crime.

Their criminal records are completely beside the point, as is what they "should have known to do". Yes, the city and state governments deserve as much blame as FEMA and the DHS. Yes, I am certain that many National Guardsmen performed heroically during the crisis.

But the total lack of compassion shown on this thread in the thin disguise of protesting "liberal weakness" is stunning.

Why not just admit that this was a clear case of racism and classism that we like to pretend doesn't exist? Not conscious or deliberate bigotry, but bigotry that is deeply engrained in all the ways that we talk about here on ATS.

People with money control resources and too often lack human compassion.

People who aren't heard by middle America get screwed.

Admitting it doesn't mean that you are biased, or that Republicans, whites, libertarians, whatever are biased. It means you have opened your eyes to reality.

Originally posted by stinkhorn
reply to post by redhatty

 

Come on man, these people and you know what I mean by that, were stealing tv's because they are greedy and think it belongs to them anyway because of slavery, they feel because they are so damn lazy, they deserve to take it, they are owed it. Disclaimer, this does not apply to all the people, just the ones looting # that will not help them survive.

AH I see, you are a racist bigot, who thinks that BLACK AMERICANS are some sub-human species. Clearly evident in your statement there. That explains a whole lot.

The hamiliton hotel was looted of all its liquor, the water was left untouched, the fruits and vegitables were left to rot, all of the snack food was pilfered. Then of course they had to trash the place as well by breaking the toilets and spray painting all over the walls, hell, some even took the time to smear feces on the wall and front desk.

What Hamilton Hotel? There is no such place in New Orleans! Ignorance and more spreading of lies.

Yeah, good people there. What about when they got credit cards...lol. They went and bought things they needed like diapers right? Nope, plasma screen here I come baby!

The majority got things that were essential to life, Food, Clothes, Diapers, Shoes, toiletries - because EVERYTHING THEY OWNED WAS GONE in the flood. BTW, $2000 does not go as far as you think, especially with a large family.

Did some take advantage of the system, of course, that happens anywhere, and the higher (and whiter) you go the more you see of it, even without a disaster - just look at CONgress.

But again, you are going to justify your feelings on the matter however you must, and still not even realize what you are saying and how you are saying it just adds to the problems in reasoning that allowed what happened in New Orleans to happen in the first place. But hey, from your first paragraph, it seems that all those that suffered or died deserved it just because their skin is a different color than yours. That alone makes them stupid and lazy.

Just makes me realize that America truly is lost, that even in the 21st century, people are so caught up in race and class bigotry that our society is going to implode. You can't hate a fellow human being and make society work.

reply to post by americandingbat


You are talking about the chocolate city mayor right? Naggins, the brilliant one?

Looks to me like he tried to kill alot of black people off by keeping them in the city, is that the racisim you mean? Or do you mean George Bush?

Here is an excellent song to go with the video:

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by nfotech
On average, 8% of African American males, 1.1% of white males and 2.6% of Hispanics have been to prison.

No, those are the numbers for people in prison at any ONE TIME.

As of 1995, one in fourteen (7%) adult black males was incarcerated in prison or jail on any given day, representing a doubling of this rate from 1985. The 1995 figure for white males was 1%.

A black male born in 1991 has a 29% chance of spending time in prison at some point in his life. The figure for white males is 4%, and for Hispanics, 16%.
www.sentencingproject.org...

Based on current rates of first incarceration, an estimated 32% of black males will enter State or Federal prison during their lifetime, compared to 17% of Hispanic males and 5.9% of white males.

oldatlanticlighthouse.wordpress.com...

And I can hear you thinking “well that is because the justice system is racist, black men get sent to prison more often for drug offenses”. If you plan to use that argument show me some stats that say they had the SAME previous criminal records as their white counterparts so it is an apple to apple comparison. If someone has already been arrested and convicted 2 or 3 times in the past, of COURSE they are likely to get a harsher sentence than a first time offender.

reply to post by redhatty


The entire point to all my posts is that the government cannot and will not be able to save you and that humans have lost their ability, skills and knowledge on how to survive by themselves.

Do I think blacks lack these skills even more, yes, they do most because they reside in large citys and do not have to worry about survival in the elements beyond the concrete walls and pavement. They have been told for more than 40 years that the government will take care of them and they keep voting democrat to keep them in power so that it remains that way.

Everyone is a racist, sorry, its truth. Its part of our monkey nature, when you see another tribe that is not your own, they may look different, they may act different than your tribe so therefore you see them seperately. Every mammal on earth does this, including humans, you cannot escape it, no one can. To deny it makes you a fool and a liar. Try if you will to deny it others, but deep down inside EVERYONE is a racist to a degree.

Originally posted by stinkhorn
reply to post by americandingbat

 

You are talking about the chocolate city mayor right? Naggins, the brilliant one?

Looks to me like he tried to kill alot of black people off by keeping them in the city, is that the racisim you mean? Or do you mean George Bush?

Sorry, I didn't watch the video. Did I miss anything?

To clarify: yes, I meant the (black) mayor of NO. Yes, I meant George Bush. Because they are both part of the system which is inherently racist and classist. By classist, I mean biased against those of any color, ethnicity, language, religion, whatever, who do not have equal access to the tools of power in our society.

Let me say this again: in my opinion, what the video posted by KaginD exposed was not racism at the individual level. That is present also, as is brutally clear in this current presidential campaign. But what was shown in the video is that those with the fewest resources are not treated the same as the rest of us.

Did you notice how many of the people in the Superdome were part of family units, usually involving both young children and the elderly or infirm? People were taking care of their own, as you would no doubt want. But then they were locked into that building for five days with no food no water no toilet facilities and no one telling them anything.

They assumed, as we would all assume, that help would be coming. And it didn't come, and it didn't come, and it didn't come, and it didn't come. And no one gave any explanation for why there was no help, or projected a timeframe for when there might be help.

That would not have happened if the people in the Superdome had been well-off.

Do you really think it even seemed possible to the people in the Superdome that the federal government did not know they existed? When there are disasters on the other side of the globe, we see news stories about villages there. These were Americans, in a great American city, and the government was more worried about covering their butts for not having strengthened the levees than getting them water, or at least telling them how long they might have to wait.

This is not, to my mind, about any individual racist, but about systemic neglect of the least powerful.

Oh, and as far as the "everyone is a racist" argument goes – not so much. My "tribe" as you put it, in the case of catastrophic natural disaster, would probably be the very much mixed-racial apartment building that I live in. I would be reliant on and relied on by a mix of blacks, whites, Mexicans, Ecuadorans, and Koreans. That may seem unthinkable to you, but it's what my life looks like.

As I have stated before, the purpose of our government from the very beginning was to protect the rights of the citizens. That is its only purpose and responsibility. It is not the governments job to rescue people, support people or to make sure people are warm and cozey.


The people in New Orleans could have turned on a TV, radio, or opened a newspaper and seen and heard what was coming. It wasn't a secret. They knew their city was below sea level, they knew there was a monster of a hurricane coming their way. It may be harsh, but if you depend on the government to save you, you deserve whatever you get. You can try to use any excuse you want to defend those people that didnt leave but if they had used even basic common sense, everyone except those who where physically unable to remove themselves could have left. I can tell you right now that I live in a hurricane prone area and if I heard that a Katrina was coming my way, Id leave even if it meant I had to walk.


I dont think any of those people should have gone through what happened to them and I think someone, at least one person should have been held responsible for what happened. The government has been raising these people to think that government will be there to take of them when it wont. I can only hope the people of New Orleans have learned a lesson from this.


Everyone should download this video and everytime you try to tell someone something about the government and they wont listen because they think "the government wont do that." MAKE them watch this entire video. When they say "the government will protect us", MAKE them watch this video. "The government is our best friend", MAKE them watch this video.

We have the Constitution and Bill of Rights because the beautiful people that created this once wonderful, but not perfect nation knew that is was nessecary for people to take care, protect and fight for themselves. What happened in New Orleans is what happens when Uncle Sam breastfeeds the nation and the people thinks its ok to be "taken care of."



Why hasnt ATS, in all these years, given us a friggen Spell Chaeck button?


[edit on 12-10-2008 by emptee]

reply to post by Sonya610


The point of the stats is that a sampling of the population consisting of the same economic and racial profile would be indistinguishable from the NO refugees. The point of your original post was to try and paint the picture that a high number of the refugees were criminals and therefore the suffering and lack of response was justified in some way. It's a crap tactic not to mention being racist and offensive.

All the people posting from your position keep making that same mistake. Once again so maybe it will sink in-

The fact that some people were criminals and that some of them looted for reasons other than survival doesn't matter in the discussion. It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that FEMA not only failed completely but there is a ton of evidence the lack of response was planned.

Armed soldiers kept people from leaving the area.

Nearby cities posted armed sentries to keep any refugees out.

Truckloads of water and food were turned away as were search and rescue teams who arrived less than 24 hours after the storm (I know these things first hand, by the way).

Your entire position is that because there were some bad people among the refugees they all deserved to die including babies and the elderly.

Your entire thought process is broken on this one. The standard you're applying is impossible and would not be applied to anyone except those who commit the crime of being born black or living in poverty.

By your logic, because there were white looters in Galveston none of the residents of Houston, especially the white people deserve any assistance. Do you see how ridiculous that is?

Thanks to attitudes like that people of color in this country still cannot live without wondering where and when racism will occur. I have to live with the pain of knowing my black friends will never trust me and that they assume I'm calling them "'n-word'" in the privacy of my home. That's the funny thing about justification via the lowest common denominator, the basis of your position. It's universal in its damage and devastating in its effect.

edit to fix typical grammar errors...

[edit on 12-10-2008 by nfotech]

Originally posted by nfotech
Your entire position is that because there were some bad people among the refugees they all deserved to die including babies and the elderly.

Oh really, where did I say anything that even VAGUELY implies that they all deserved to die?

I am saying that the government messed up. I am also saying that the INHERENT LACK OF MORALITY among MANY made surviving twice as hard. It will take most people quite a while to die of starvation, however it will take all of 2 seconds to get shot in the head by a thug when anarchy reigns.

People could have worked TOGETHER (and they did in parts of the french quarter) but as another poster said many were used to living off of the government teat. Many turned on others like the vicious little creatins that they are.

The entire situation was utterly disgusting but only PART OF IT can be blamed on the government.

reply to post by emptee


I starred your last post due to the truth that rings from your words.

Sometimes, for passionate reasoning, rational humans will allow feelings and emotions to override their logic, knowledge and brain power.

What I am saying is that feelings dictate behavior.
What I am saying is emotion is the grandfather of action.
What I am saying is passion predicts paradigms and produces behavior.

When you let your passion rule your reason you are like a ping pong ball in a tornado, going where ever the force of wind (passion/emotion) propells you.

When you let reason be the sole determinant of your actions you are like a bowling ball in the same tornado. (you do not go anywhere).

Passion is more primordial and basic to humans.
Reason is developed over time and experience.

Reason is of course the greater of the two forces.
Reason exists to direct the energy of your passion to produce objectives and goals.

The people who looted for greed were driven by passion.
The people who looted for food were driven by passion as well but that passion was tempered by reason.

Yes it, the video, is a tear producing, intended to stir up passion, and inflame emotions, but because there was inherent danger in living below the sea, on the coast, with a hurricane approaching, warnings galore, past experience with this type of weather, and a lack on some persons part of not reasonably providing for the safety and survival of their family and self, what happened was tragic.

reply to post by stinkhorn


Do not get mad at me, I was not the one ignorantly posting about how all those people deserved what they got for not getting out of the way in time. I was not the one that posted that ALL OF THEM were stupid. I also am not the one that posted some liberal bashing crap about the government not being neccessary for people like you, just weak libs. Well then get off my liberal communications infrastructure. It was liberals that invented it, implemented it, and not it is controlled under socialist means. If you want to bash liberals for depending on the governmernt, go get your own world wide web and stop using the liberal governmernt one to do it.

i just got done watching the video. it is incredibly sad and a very good example of why we can not count on our government at all, and try to learn to count on ourselves and the ones around us. in the end its not the government that is going to be our hero... even tho we give them our hard earned money.