American Patriotism Terrifies me!!

I think we should ban knives in the US, had three stab wounds come into the ER last night. One of which took several units of blood.

Haven't had a gun shot in ages.

Story is true but sarcasm is all mine.

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman

Gun owners kinda scare me aswell, like they need to over compensate for something, particularly the ones who cling onto the second ammendment like it was written yesterday - guns serve no purpose in a civilised society

legally held weaponry is a great thing, to keep prospective despotic regimes in check and to defend against criminals

Criminals possessing guns is what you should be worried about

reply to post by blueorder


Maybe in the 1800's, yeah a great idea. This is 2008.
Your military should be the only people with guns. And before you argue they can be turned against you by the 'Despotic regime', then surely the true american patriots in the army would have the sense to resist such orders?
How do you differentiate between criminals getting hold of guns and citizens getting hold of a gun? In my opinion its only circumstance that changes citizens from becoming criminals. Circumstances can change pretty quickly - take the economy for example.

Maybe in the 1800's, yeah a great idea. This is 2008.

yes, because criminals and despots disappeared with the advent of the 20th century............

Your military should be the only people with guns. And before you argue they can be turned against you by the 'Despotic regime', then surely the true american patriots in the army would have the sense to resist such orders?

hardly makes any sense that, the military is not tens of millions strong, and would be under the rule of their superiors, much better to have law abiding citizens armed

How do you differentiate between criminals getting hold of guns and citizens getting hold of a gun?

you don't permit criminals to legally obtain a gun- unfortunately criminals do not tend to go through the legal route.......

In my opinion its only circumstance that changes citizens from becoming criminals. Circumstances can change pretty quickly - take the economy for example.

well, taking the economy into account, crime rates were much lower in the 1930s when people really lived in poverty.

What makes someone a criminal is when they commit a crime

[edit on 13-10-2008 by blueorder]

In 1783, when Britain conceeded that the American Colonies were in fact a free and independent country, many people decided to leave the new United States of America. Those people were also predominately of English ancestry, with shared history and mostly shared values with the new Americans.

The majority of those that left went to Canada.There, they created a country that in many respects mirrored the United States. But, there were several important differences.

In the USA, freedom of speech was, and still is, a right of the people. This is enshrined in the Constitution.

In Canada, there is no such thing as free speech. In Canada, you can be fined and/or imprisoned because of the words you use. A Catholic Priest is being fined over $4,000 a month because he writes in the parish bulletin that abortion is wrong. People have been jailed for publicly expressing opinions that offend others.

In the USA, the Constitution allows almost everyone to own a firearm. This was put in the Constitution because Britain had attempted to limit firearms, so they could impose their will on the colonists. It was the raw civilian population that rose up and took on the most formidible war machine in the world.

This is NOT a right in Canada, there the government retaions the right to limit and even confiscate arms.

In the US, not everyone has medical insurance. Yet many thousands of people receive medical care, at no cost, in every US hospital.

In Canada, every person has to be in the Medicaid program. There is no other medical care allowed, no supplemental insurance, nothing. Each province runs its own Medicaid program, and in all of the provinces medical care is rationed and limited.

My paternal grandmother died as a result of the rationing of medical care in Canada. She developed an abdominal hernia, but was denied surgery because it was considered to be "elective surgery". She was told to limit her activities, and perhaps she might get surgery in 2-4 years.

Well, her hernia strangulated, and she developed gangrene. She was admitted to the hospital, but the antibiotics they could use were also limited because of the budget. So, she died.

Tens of thousands of Canadians come to the USA every year to get medical treatment that is simply not available in any reasonable time frame in Canada.

I am unique, in that I was born a dual citizen of the USA and Canada. I still am a citizen of both countries. But, I am patriotic to the USA, not to Canada. I would never consider living in Canada (even though it is a beautiful country and I have spent a great deal of time there).

You see, the United States of America is unique. It is the only place in the world where an uneducated paeron that works hard can become a millionaire. It is the only place in the world where a poor adult, who dropped out of school because of economic necessity, can go on and earn a Doctorate from a University.

Does the USA have faults? Certainly it does, as do all countries in this world. After all, countries are run by human beings, and none of us are perfect. But, having lived in 7 European countries, and 4 Asian countries, I have yet to discover any other country in the world that has the same degree of freedom for their citizens, freedom of opportunity and that safeguards the liberty of its citizens like the USA does.

reply to post by OldMedic


Wow, that's certainly informing, especially about the freedom of speech part. Never knew that was illegal in Canada, certainly interesting.
But,
I disagree with your statement that America is the only country in the world where an uneducated person can become a Millionaire - the founder of Tesco's in the UK started lif workin at a market stall as a kid and is now a multimillionaire, if not a billionaire.

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman


And while I didn't really drop out of school and don't have a doctorate, I left age 17 to do an apprenticeship, I now have three degrees, including a Masters with distinction, which I paid for by myself.

I'm talking about the UK, so the USA again isn't the only country where this can be achieved. So in that respect America is not Unique!

Edit - to illustrate USA not unique

[edit on 13-10-2008 by Thebudweiserstuntman]

Patriotism is a good & bad thing to possess. I love my country and fellow Americans but don't always agree with them. When someone puts America down others come running and call them unpatriotic and despise them. I think that when a man or woman so called " hates America " he or she most likely loves this land more than the rest of us and is just more disgusted of a government that is wrong. These people are some of the patriots we need more of. Yes there are those who follow their government and obey them til death and those are the one's I'm frightened of. Those are the ones who would kill if someone burns a flag. " SO WHAT! It's just a freaking flag". It's not our country and what America stands for. Government is to big and needs to be shrunken to just security and making sure our rights are treasured. The rest should be handled by the people and the states. Anyway, I love America, it's just some of the people running it right now that are the ones I'm scared of. Patriotism is being proud of our countries virtues and culture but question everything and correct the errors.

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman


You cant possibly be serious thinking that only the military should have guns can you?

If only the government has guns, whats to stop them from turning you into a slave? Or perhaps thats what you prefer?

Originally posted by Constitutional Scholar
reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman

 

You cant possibly be serious thinking that only the military should have guns can you?

If only the government has guns, whats to stop them from turning you into a slave? Or perhaps thats what you prefer?

Well, the British military hasn't turned me into a slave. I mean, I hear stories about the American military, but are they really that bad? Oof! It looks like your ancestors picked the wrong side!

reply to post by Merriman Weir


Perhaps you are a slave and you dont even know it.

England has the highest number of government surveillance cameras out of any modernized nation.

If the government knows where you are going and can watch you everywhere you go (with the exception of a private residence) are you really that free?

Originally posted by Constitutional Scholar
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

Perhaps you are a slave and you dont even know it.

Well, if that's the case, it can't be that bad can it? I mean, my conditions of slavery seem to be very comparable to that of the non-slaves of the Western world.

England has the highest number of government surveillance cameras out of any modernized nation.

So you're saying, our government is turning cameras against us, but your government is going to turn guns against you?

If the government knows where you are going and can watch you everywhere you go (with the exception of a private residence) are you really that free?

Just how free are you that you need to keep a gun because you're afraid your own government is going to turn against you?

As a Texan and patriotic American I take offence to your prejudiced remarks about americans and especially Texans. I for one have always questioned and criticised everthing this and any other president has done that is anti-american, such as the war of aggression in Iraq, economic policies that favor the rich and penalize the middle class, encouraging corporate coruption without regards for the effects on the economy and the working american, encouraging outsourcing of american jobs overseas and putting americans out of work, excluding the executive branch from most of the laws placed on everyone else, etc. etc. And I can promise you I consider objecting to and standing against these policies and the people who promote them as the most patriotic thing ANY American can do. THAT is American patriotism my friend!

Originally posted by Merriman Weir


Well, if that's the case, it can't be that bad can it? I mean, my conditions of slavery seem to be very comparable to that of the non-slaves of the Western world.

Just wait

So you're saying, our government is turning cameras against us, but your government is going to turn guns against you?

How can you possibly be so blind? How can someone who manages to breathe actually believe that government has the peoples best interests and freedom in mind?

Just how free are you that you need to keep a gun because you're afraid your own government is going to turn against you?

I dont own guns because the government is going to turn against me, thats just one of the numerous reasons for private gun ownership.

How can you feel only the government should have guns? Think they are going to protect you at all times?

Originally posted by TruthTellist

One day you will wish you had a gun, not for revenge but for defense.

Just having it won't make you use it anymore than having a knife or a baseball bat has caused you to kill anyone.


[edit on 13-10-2008 by TruthTellist]

TruthTellist, can you please post the stats of children that are accidentally killed each year by knives and baseball bats? You seem to think they are all the same level of deadly weapon so I was just curious what you are basing this on.

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman


Then you don't live in my area.

And need doesn't dictate someone's ability to exercise their freedom or not.

reply to post by MorningStar8741


A car is a much better choice for causing death and destruction than a gun.

More children are killed in car accidents than children killed in gun accidents.

Should we ban cars? Regulate who can buy them?

Originally posted by Constitutional Scholar
reply to post by MorningStar8741

 

A car is a much better choice for causing death and destruction than a gun.

More children are killed in car accidents than children killed in gun accidents.

Should we ban cars? Regulate who can buy them?

Do not even get me started on cars and the people allowed to operate them. That is an entirely different crazy rant. Someone specifically related guns to bats and knives as equal weapons. I was specifically addressing that. Feel free to start a thread all about how dangerous cars are and I will be glad to discuss that farther with you there. Unfortunately, here I am interested in the topic at hand and the specific statement that I addressed. Thanks for your attention though.

reply to post by MorningStar8741


Well why not specifically address the point I made?

Ah wait, I know, because it would destroy your anti gun stance

I think the biggest problem here is that the pro-gun people seem to have troubel reading. Saying that something may not be GREAT about the idea of everyone having a gun is not the same as advocating more gun control or even banning them altogether.

As well though, it keeps being mentioned how baddly they are needed for self defense and the point has yet to be proven that the unarmed citizens of the UK are in any more danger than the armed citizens of the U.S.

Sometimes there is gray area and you should be more willing to discuss than to see things so perfectly black and white and just take sides.