American Patriotism Terrifies me!!

It reminds me of Nazi Germany where the soldiers obeyed without question. The sheeple of America are letting Cheney and the Neo-cons strip away all our freedoms while they blindly graze. Scary...

[Iraq was threatening its neighbors]

Hmm I am assuming your talking about the country of Iran ? The one that the US wants to TAKE OUT >..the one that the US helped AID Saddam with weapons and money and even the supposed gas that Saddam used on the Kurds ....when he tried to take Iran ? That one ?

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman


it is a perfect nation for the new nazist/socialist system;i only seen this in states where neighbor would call police for something small ; america the land of child like attitude...

i dont understand how when a thread is started re patriotism that is automatically becomes a thread about gun ownership? is that all american people can say.....'but i have a right to own a gun blahblahblah'.... sad.
what state is your country in that you 'have' to own a gun?

here on ats there seems to be a few american patriots who defend the constitution (ie.gun ownership) likes its their baby though hypocritically break others like for eg. - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression: 'Note
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.'

*constant banter on here about religion
*hatred of the press
*cruel debating over peoples views and opinions.

and for those who say the constitution is under threat 'at the moment' need to read over it again. your government have been beaking the 'rules' for a very long time.

Pssshh.. American Patriotism? I hardly know a Patriot. It's pathetic how hateful and disrespectful people have become towards their own country. You think our patriotism is scary???? How about those people on the other side of the planet strapping bombs to themselves, that's scary patriotism.

reply to post by etombo


Ah, now that is true American patriotism. Point out that although we may be ugly, those crazy foreigners are uglier. Way to go, and said so cleverly as well. Yes patriotism is why people blow themselves up. That is it. Keep watching Fox, dont dare travel or read books and it will all be ok.

Oh, I wouldn't worry too much about American patriotism. Thanks to American patriots in the years 1941-1945, Malasia, the Dutch East Indies, New Guinea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, Coastal China, Korea, Burma, New Caledonia, and the Phillipines don't speak Japanese.

Thanks to American patriots who volunteered by the millions in these years, Norway, Sweden, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Denmark, Poland, Hungary, Romania, Czechoslovakia, Greece, Italy, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, France, Austria, Holland, and Belgium aren't part of the Third Reich.

Our territorial requirements? Just enough space to bury our dead. And when the Russians began the Cold War, and kept a number of northern and eastern European countries, there were a lot of American patriots who eventually wore that system down, and these countries now enjoy democracy.

When Kuwait was overtaken and Saudi Arabia threatened, American patriots turned that back. We didn't keep Kuwait. In Iraq, we won't keep anything there either, and hopefully, they can find a government that can serve all Iraqi's.

Nope, the US doesn't take and hold territory even though they fight and die to free it. Never have. Never will. Most of these territories are **it compared to what we have here in the US. And folks die every week, just trying to reach our shores. I don't see folks dying to get into any other country.

We aren't perfect, but we have it good. In spite of all the financial troubles, in spite of the stupid approach of our Generals from time to time, American patriotism defines and enables other nations to call us what they will.

Hopefully, aside from Israel, the next time the rest of the world gets into trouble, we can just sit it out and watch. Because you can believe that if the US won't commit to help, no one else will.

Originally posted by MorningStar8741
reply to post by Boogley

 

Then let me ask you, Boogly. Are the good citizens in the UK living in terror from the insane amount of crime? Remember, in the UK, criminals DO HAVE guns and the good people do not. Do they go without buying playstations and cds because someone with a gun will just come and take it or is this another attempt at justifying one thing with something completely different?

Explain? I used a robbery, a real one at that, as an example. So that's completely different? I think not.

I can't speak for all of the UK but I can most likely assume that anyone who is being threatened with one sure as hell wishes they had one. We did not stop buying playstation games or systems, and we plan on getting more guns as well as getting me in a shooting range. It's a choice here, in the USA. You keep comparing the UK to the US, but this is a US thread. What I mean is we are talking about the American patriotism in this thread and you keep comparing the UK.. now that's something completely different.

In the UK (population c. 60.5m) there were 765 reported incidents of murder for 2005-6 (Home Office, undated) - a rate of about 1.1 per 100,000.
In the US (population c. 298.5m) there were an estimated 16,137 homicides in 2004 (FBI, 2006a) - a rate of about 5.4 per 100,000. Of these, 10,654 were carried out with guns (FBI, 2006b).

Link

That's just murder or homicide. So it's a different comparison all together.

Edit to add another report just to stay accurate here.

During 2007, nine young people lost their lives in shootings, including the killing of 11-year-old Rhys Jones in Liverpool. According to Home Office figures, there were 59 firearms-related homicides in 2006-07 compared with 49 in the previous year. That is an increase of 18% in just one year. There were 507 serious injuries from firearms - more than one incident a day. But at the same time, the trend in gun crime overall has been going down.

Linkzor

[edit on 12-10-2008 by Boogley]

reply to post by MorningStar8741


You're right, I got that quote from fox news. No other station reported on people blowing themselves up. I guess I did miss the flight to Baghdad on account of the security issues.. tell me, did you go? Or maybe you read about it in a book.. Let me know, ps you're a cutie.

reply to post by MorningStar8741


nevermind, I had something to say about latin being handy.

[edit on 12-10-2008 by etombo]

Originally posted by dooper
Oh, I wouldn't worry too much about American patriotism. Thanks to American patriots in the years 1941-1945, Malasia, the Dutch East Indies, New Guinea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, Coastal China, Korea, Burma, New Caledonia, and the Phillipines don't speak Japanese.

Mate, on behalf of all the fallen Diggers and currently serving ANZAC's, let me be the first to say GET STUFFED!

You just completely discounted the massive efforts and losses that Australian, New Zealand and other countries armies made in the South Pacific in WWWII. Way to alienate your allies, arse wipe!

All in the name of "patriotism". Pathetic.

reply to post by Boogley


I have no idea what you think your rant was about but it proved my point did it not? In the UK, there are guns. Who has them? Criminals. You said we need guns to protect ourselves from the criminals that have guns. I was simply asking if the people in the UK where ONLY the criminals have guns are living such a violent and scary life as to justify your statement. The answer, and thank you for illustrating it, is no.

Originally posted by etombo
reply to post by MorningStar8741

 

You're right, I got that quote from fox news. No other station reported on people blowing themselves up. I guess I did miss the flight to Baghdad on account of the security issues.. tell me, did you go? Or maybe you read about it in a book.. Let me know, ps you're a cutie.

LOL, I never said people were not blowing themselves up. I was simply pointing out that you made a stupid statement demonstrating nothing but ugly ethnocentrism. It is WHY the people are blowing themselves up that you seem to completely miss. I am not disputing that they do it, WHY they do it. People on ATS sure like to attack first and read later don't they?

Originally posted by etombo
reply to post by MorningStar8741

 

nevermind, I had something to say about latin being handy.

[edit on 12-10-2008 by etombo]

Please, please do. Your wit, thus far, has been nothing less than stunning.

Originally posted by MorningStar8741
reply to post by Boogley

 

I have no idea what you think your rant was about but it proved my point did it not? In the UK, there are guns. Who has them? Criminals. You said we need guns to protect ourselves from the criminals that have guns. I was simply asking if the people in the UK where ONLY the criminals have guns are living such a violent and scary life as to justify your statement. The answer, and thank you for illustrating it, is no.

Wow, edit to add beginning? My point though, was using the comparison of the US vs the UK.

The use of using the comparison of the UK to the US may have been a better example for you around 1970-80. But as of now it's outdated. The UK started implementing gun control laws looong ago but really sped up in the 1900's.

A registration system gun law - the Firearms Act - was first introduced to the United Kingdom in 1920, spurred on partly due to fears of a surge in crime that might have resulted from the large number of guns available following World War I and in part due to fears of working class unrest in this period. The law did not initially affect smooth bore weapons, which were available for purchase without any form of paperwork.

Fully automatic weapons were almost completely banned from private ownership by the 1937 Firearms Act, which took its inspiration from the US 1934 National Firearms Act. Such weapons are nowadays only available to certain special collectors, museums and prop companies. The 1937 Act also consolidated changes to the 1920 Act that controlled shotguns with barrels shorter than 20". This length was later raised by the 1968 Firearms act to 24".

The first control of long-barrelled shotguns began in 1968 with the Criminal Justice and Firearms Act.[8] This required a person to obtain a "Shotgun Certificate" to own any shotgun. The Act did not require the registration of shotguns, only licensing. This act was accompanied by an Amnesty when many older weapons were handed into the police. This has remained a feature of British Policing that following an incident a brief amnesty is declared.

Changes in public attitudes in the 1970s and 1980s changed the basis on which firearms were perceived and understood in British society. Increasingly graphic portrayals of firearms involved in gratuitous acts of violence in the mass media gave rise to concern of the emergence of an aggressive "gun culture". A steady rise in violent gun crime in general also became an issue of concern.

Wiki cuz im lazy

I was showing you that because the use of guns in homicides in the US is DRASTICALLY more than in the UK. And taking away guns now, with all that is going on is positively stupid. Poverty creates crime. With the amount of people that own guns now, and the the faltering economy, poverty is growing. That is increasing our crime rates and especially crimes with guns. Imagine putting a ban on it now. Imagine the outrage alone because as you can see many of us support this law, plus the amount of people that will be more than happy to hit up the family of 5th ave because they gladly gave up theirs.


[edit on 12-10-2008 by Boogley]

reply to post by Boogley


Wow, either you completely missed my point, or yours. The statement was that we need guns because criminals have guns. It is fair to compare that with a country without guns. There are guns there, and crimes are comitted with them. So...is the unarmed populace held hostage over there or not? No, thank you for taking it a step farther and confirming that gun violence as a whole is much much lower in a country where only criminals have guns. I never said we should take away anyone's guns now. I am siply pointing out that THAT particular argument is flawed and empty at best. Thanks for backing me up on that, you get a star!

reply to post by fingapointa


Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! I didn't mean that Aussies and New Zealanders and British, and Indians, and Canadians, and Burmese didn't help! I swear to God, I meant no offense!

I fought alongside Australians in Viet Nam, and no one loves Aussies and South Koreans more than me. No one.

Everybody pulled their weight! But the topic here was American patriotism.

We never hear anything negative about Aussies or New Zealanders, only Americans.

Just imagine for a moment that the US never existed. The weight of men and materials alone, it is rumored, almost sank Britain.

I certainly don't want to offend our best and dearest allies, but I ask you would the result be the same if the US hadn't also pitched in?

Originally posted by MorningStar8741
reply to post by Boogley

 

Wow, either you completely missed my point, or yours. The statement was that we need guns because criminals have guns. It is fair to compare that with a country without guns. There are guns there, and crimes are comitted with them. So...is the unarmed populace held hostage over there or not? No, thank you for taking it a step farther and confirming that gun violence as a whole is much much lower in a country where only criminals have guns. I never said we should take away anyone's guns now. I am siply pointing out that THAT particular argument is flawed and empty at best. Thanks for backing me up on that, you get a star!

I must be mistaken somewhere. I got the idea that you were promoting the banning of guns in the US, because that is what I have been posting about. Not to mention my original replies were more towards the OP of this thread. So, I was supporting my point of view. You were actually the one pointing my post out to reply and I took you posts as asking for support of my view because that is all I can give you, you ask rhetorical questions.

Yeah I just read through what I was reading before work, I didn't read the whole thread, I skipped from first post to the last two or so pages and yeah.. I was pretty much replying to the op. Your post was something along the lines of riots, I don't even think I read it. I was posting my general view on guns, then you came in asking me about crimes in the UK etc so I pretty much backed up what I said. Gun control has been in the use of a ban for a long freaking time and it doesn't work to compare them because with the amount of gun owners in America now, a gun ban would hard as freak.

Peace. Got a game of spades to play.

Since so many people seem to think that American Patriotism is the same thing as the right to own a gun....read this

What an odd topic. The OP asks why we are so blindly patriotic, and supposedly support everything our government does, and then goes on to tell us we don't need the one thing we have which assures us the right to NOT be blindly patriotic.

Ironic, isn't it?