American Patriotism Terrifies me!!

Originally posted by skeptic1
What is your problem with guns, exactly? Or, more to the point, what is the problem with responsible people owning guns?

Responsible/sane people don`t own guns. Sadly, you are just kneedeep in a deep # dogma mixed with gun-fever.

If my father suddenly one day had bought a gun..FOR PROTECTION - I would go WTF!! He has lost his mind! WTF!!! This nice and cool man have bought a gun! It doesn`t mix!!
Everybody i know, and they know, would think the same. But for you, it is all normal. Real scary.



Answer me this:

You have no problem with killing a human?
Becoming a murderer?

Do christians own guns in the US btw? Do they shoot down trespassers? lol


The problem has gone on for too long, you have no chance of getting out. You need your guns now.



If this world is a high school, US is the jock, the bully, and the dramaqueen. They choke the life out of your great musicians and artists that the world love.
Your teeth are stained in blood, and you seem to love the taste of it.


*** off

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman


Yes most Americans are ignorant, sad but true.
The communist last step to the take over of America will be when they convince them to give up their arms, don't be fooled and left at the mercy of tyrants like the rest of the world has. Dont yousee what is happening?

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
It honestly reminds me of German Nationalism immediately prior to World War II, particularly the whole flag waving culture that now seems to be embedded in America.

I actually agree with you and I am an American and a veteran of the Navy. The way the sheeple in this nation have been acting for decades but particularly since 911 is troubling to me. They are willing to burn the constitution to stop someone from burning a flag. They listen to the MSM and accept it as gospel truth. This is the way Hitler rose to power, 911 was our Reichstag fire and the Patriot Act is nearly identical to the enabling act of Hitler's era.

Those that give up freedom for security will receive neither, a great man once said...

reply to post by kilad

Responsible/sane persons don't carry guns? Are you insane?

You don't feel a need to own a gun - maybe you don't have anything anyone wants. I believe in WWII Norway declared its neutrality. And got invaded anyway. So much for pacifist neutrality, huh?

I note that after the war, Norway joined NATO. Or should I say MATO - Mostly American Treaty Organization.

Yeah. You don't need a gun. You can rely on your US Big Brother who have guns, carry guns, and can use guns, to ensure your security.

And your definitions are a bit off. Murder is personal. Much different than killing to defend oneself, or in time of war.

You use High School as an analogy. Graduated yet?

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
reply to post by JipStix

 

Originally posted by Dooper
Gun owners kinda scare me aswell, like they need to over compensate for something, particularly the ones who cling onto the second ammendment like it was written yesterday - guns serve no purpose in a civilised society

What civility?

In all of history, has man's humanity toward man ever grown under stricter regulation?

Gunowners are compensating for the fact that other people will always be able to abuse them by means of physical force.

If this is unnerving to you, don't force them to defend their persons or their property.

[edit on 25-11-2008 by 4w578i]

[edit on 25-11-2008 by 4w578i]

Wow ... wow... wow... "Sane people don't need guns" ... I have heard some mildly idiotic things in the past, mostly idiotic things and some not so idiotic things. But that statement has to be the most ignorant and idiotic statement I have ever heard. We have guns to keep the criminals at an arms length and out of our personal property and lives. If we did not have guns in our homes or on our person than we would be at risk.

Reagan won the cold war by making it known that we had ICBM's and by out spending the USSR in that category. Its the same principal with guns in todays society. What would have happened if the US didn't out spend USSR? What if we never let them know we had more ICBM's? Or what if we didn't let them know we had any? I'll tell you, the USSR would have invaded the US and we would be calling each other comrades right now.

We have guns as a DETERRENT from burglary, theft, rape, murder, mugging, and all the other things that could come from a criminal wanting to do us harm. If we didn't have that deterrent than we would be just like the UK right now.... screwed and crime ridden.

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman


The reason for guns are bullies and psychopaths especially when they control a government. Look at the last hundred years of history. People are LESS civilized than they were 50 years ago. Then I could walk at night and leave the door unlocked, now I live in the boonies on a dirt road behind locked gates and STILL have to chase off the bullies.

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman


"guns serve no purpose in a civilised society"

I'd like to know how much that statement will change when you're standing nose to nose with the guy that just broke into your house that has his own gun.

I can't tell you how badly I wished for a pistol when I came face to face with the man that broke into my house. I now have one in addition to the pump action shotgun in my closet that I would have gladly used on him could I have only gotten to it.

To the subject at hand, patriotism has a different meaning depending on who you ask. To me patriotism is wanting what's best for your country and fellow man and questioning the government when they're making the wrong decisions. Case in point - the trillions of dollars being spent on these "bailouts".

We're no different than any other country. There are always going to be people willing to step off the cliff in blind support of their guy or gal. I'm sure you have your own where you live.

There is no need to fear gun onwers. The vast majority of gun owners are law-abiding citizens who cause no harm to anyone. To enact laws that restrict the right to bear arms is not only unconstitutional, it is illogical; those individuals who are most likely to use guns to commit violent crimes are not likely to obtain the weapons by legal means anyway.

That being the case, there can only be one reason to disarm a law-abiding, gun-owning populace: to make them easier to control. An armed populace is an excellent hedge against despotism.

Historical patterns establish that disarming the citizenry always happens right before dictators take power. So the "if nobody had guns, then all of us would be safe" argument is nonsense - the GOVERNMENT would still have guns.

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." WE are the well-regulated militia folks, and OUR FIREARMS help to ensure the security of a FREE state.

So, there are some very valid reasons to own guns:

1. Sport shooting
2. Hunting
3. Personal defense
4. Collecting
5. PROTECTION AGAINST TOTALITARIANISM (no, this is not paranoia...always remember that the holocaust happened to people just like us...and those of you who think the holocaust was story concocted by zionists should instead ponder the millions murdered by Stalin...a confirmed fact)

Why would you be for ANY of your personal freedoms being taken away or limited? Freedom of speech, assembly, press, religion, the right to bear arms...these things should never be limited in ANY way. Once the limitations are allowed to take root, when will they stop? Answer: THEY WON'T.

When considering these kinds of issues, USE YOUR GRAY MATTER and do not rely on the nonsensical political bs you have heard spouted over and over again by mainstream media knuckleheads and other left-leaning nincompoops.

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
Is it just me or does anyone else find American Patriotism worrying?

Most of the threads on this site, particularly from the southern states such as Texas, to name but a few, seem to blindly accept whatever America does without question.


Discuss!!

Not all. I find it amusing at times and do feel like giving them a good shake and dose of "reality". It will be a shock to the american pysche when the rest of the world passes them by as an increasingly irrelevant nation.....unless they wake up. A nation of 300million in debt to the rest of the world and propped up becaue the dollar is de-facto global currency thanks to oil. Now what happens when nations of billions like China and India come along. 2 Billion Chinese consumers owning trillions of US debt and manufacturing most of the basic goods. Then the (in a couple of years) even LARGER!!! Indian nation providing the high tech goods and services. The US with an ever increasing poverty problem and an unservicable debt.

It's coming unless they wake up.

Oh nearly forgot: China and India on the moon in the next 10 years and the US won't even have a shuttle anymore!

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
Is it just me or does anyone else find American Patriotism worrying?

Most of the threads on this site, particularly from the southern states such as Texas, to name but a few, seem to blindly accept whatever America does without question.
It honestly reminds me of German Nationalism immediately prior to World War II, particularly the whole flag waving culture that now seems to be embedded in America.

The fact that Bush came into power under the guise of a 'War Presiedent' even before Iraq etc terrifies me and has no place in a modern civilisation.

Anyway, this is not a 'Flame' on America. I hope some Americans can prove me wrong. Let's keep this civil, i'm just looking to be corrected.

Discuss!!

Amazing..isnt it. I recall people saying to other people who were not in support of the war against Iraq as being anti-American and terrorist.

Yet you would find those very folks sitting in the isles of the local churches praying every Sunday and saying God Bless America.

The wolf in a sheep's slothing tends to calm the mass sheeple perfectly.



Cheers!!!!





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[edit on 26/11/08 by JAK]

reply to post by soldiermom


A-1!!! KUDOS!!! 100 percent agree!!!

You deserve a star!


Isnt it great knowing you can blow away some intruder and ask questions later?

To bad for those who so willingly give up their ability to protect themselves all because they are too blind and braindead to know the difference between law abiding citizen and a lawbreaking criminal!!!!



Cheers!!!!



Mod Edit: Advertising removed. Please see Terms and Conditions of Use section 4) Advertising. Thank you - Jak


[edit on 26/11/08 by JAK]

People in much of the socialist world hate George W. Bush, because he defeated Al Gore (whom they love), and because he openly disdains Europe in particular.

I would remind the Europeans that the USA was largely populated by peole from Europe. People that wanted opportunities that were denied to them in their home countries, because of class, ethnicity or religion. People that were hiorribly discriminated against at home. People that were held down because they were peasants, and had no chance at all in Europe.

To this day, in most of Europe, the class system is alive and well. Nobility (and former members of noble families) are treated as if they were something special. People are still denied the opportunity to rise above their station in life. There are very few opportunities for an adult to go back to school and obtain an education.

In the USA, anyone can grow from extreme poverty to extreme wealth. Anyone can obtain as much education as they wish, at any time in their life. There is very little discrimination against people because of their religion, national origin or even skin color.

I gre up very, very ppor. My parents wetre divorced, my mother was a drunk, and we moved constantly to keep the child welfare folks from interferring. At times the only thing I had to eat was dry dog food. I wen to 28 different schools, in 5 different states, and never finished High School.

I ran away from home and joined the Army at the age of 16. I spent 10 years on active duty with the Army, and then left. I began college (at a junior college) at the age of 27, and graduated with a B.A. at 30. I earne dmy M.A. by age 32 and set off on a professional career as a Counselor.

I later earned my Doctorate (at the age of 44), and enjoyed great success in my field.

THAT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE IN MOST OF EUROPE.

The Europeans are horribly afraid of war. They have comfortable lives, and want absolutely nothing to interrupt that. So, they will do anything to avoid war, including watching genocide go on, see the destruction of other peoples, etc. and will do nothing about those things Look at what happened in Bosnia, or what is happening in Somalia right now as an example) If anyone threatens them, they will bend over and let the aggressor do whatever they want rather than fight back.

They despise George W. Bush, and did BEFORE he was elected. They don't like the way he talks, or the fact that he actually does what he says he will do. But most of all, they hate hime because that's what the intelligencia of this country say they should do.

I love Europe. I have lived there for extended periods of time with the Army, and have travelled all over Europe. But there is no way I would even consider moving there. Too stifilin to the human spirit.

Yes, their history ios great. But that is all in the past. Since the beginning of Worl;d War I, the vast majority of Europe has become an intellectual backwater, Europe is largely irrelevant in todays world.

The Europeans live on thsie past glory, while the USA and Asia ascend. They are horribly jealous of the US, and that adds to their hatred. They also resent greatly that it was the US that saved them from thre Nazi's, rebuilt them and didn't really ask for anything in return.

So much envy on their part, expressed as hatred.

reply to post by OldMedic


OldMedic, dead on. If American patriotism scares Europeans, or Australians, then their lack of patriotism and nationalism, combined with pacifist attitudes terrifies me.

I realize that Europe endured two great slaughters in the 20th century, but my God, did the bulk of European men with bravery, honor, pride, and individual courage die in those two wars? Has courage, drive, and national pride been so diluted in these nations that they can't even understand ours?

It would appear that since the Second World War, they have relied on Big Brother to help ensure their security, but simultaneously, they fear and resent Big Brother.

One of the greatest skills that a mother and father should see their child have to me is a familiarity and proficiency with weapons of the day, which in this time would mean firearms. Why? It should be painfully obvious. No one knows what the future will be, but we can always rely on the fact that conflict will always, and eventually be part of that future.

Wishing and hoping differently is to ignore all human history. It would appear that a prudent parent would teach them skills with firearms, just as one would impart other skills necessary to life.

I noted in combat that those who were raised and skilled with weapons prior to entering the military were - survivors. That's the best way I can put it. They had hunted, they instinctively knew weapons, and so they also knew their limitations as well as capabilities, thus, they had a distinct intuition as to what the real dangers of combat were and what to look for.

Their familiarity with weapons and the skills of shooting were instinctive. No thinking about the shooting part. They were free to "work the problem," not dilute their thinking with any conscious level of handling their weapon.

In the first World War, we had a Sergeant York, a conscious objector to be sure, but from his home-derived hunting skills, he was able to do things on a battlefield that stunned his opponents.

The most decorated American soldier in the Second World War was a Texas boy, who had to hunt to provide food for his family. He too knew instinctively what was possible, and what was not. No thinking about shooting and hunting these larger targets, he just went about his business at hand.

All through history, those most skilled with weapons would prevail. I pity those Europeans who will be compelled to wait for official military training to gain any skill with firearms.

The military at best gives basic rudimentary skill. Even the US military doesn't provide sufficient time on the ranges to become proficient with their weapons. Those that do, often do so on their own time.

So if American patriotism, nationalism, or possession of personal firearms terrifies you, you really should stop and look around. Especially what's over your shoulder, over the horizon. That's your real threat.

Wanna know why us Southerns hold on to guns?

I'll give it to you.

Theres always a deer calling my name.

George Carlin used to have a good statement about people in groups such as THE Moral Majority he said thry were neither moral or a majority.It seems when you gather the herd for a cause the herd takes on a life of its own and immediately drops the banner under which they assemble only to become a lynch mob.Leaving death and destruction for those they encounter..

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
Is it just me or does anyone else find American Patriotism worrying?

It depends on where you are getting the "scary" info.

If it is the mass media liars club, then no wonder you're terrified!



No, I don't worry about it, the media whores are doing their job of hyping crap and ignoring truth.

[edit on 22-12-2008 by toasted]

There is nothing wrong with American patriotism.

The headline should read "American Jingoism Terrifies me!!"

Jingoism is defined in the Oxford English Dictionary as "extreme patriotism in the form of aggressive foreign policy". In practice, it refers to the advocation of the use of threats or actual force against other countries in order to safeguard what they perceive as their country's national interests, and colloquially to excessive bias in judging one's own country as superior to others.

The term originated in Britain, expressing a pugnacious attitude towards Russia in the 1870s. During the 19th century in the United States, journalists called this attitude spread-eagleism. "Jingoism" did not enter the U.S. vernacular until near the turn of the 20th century. This nationalistic belligerence was intensified by the sinking of the battleship USS Maine in Havana harbour that led to the Spanish-American War of 1898.

Originally posted by kilad



Responsible/sane people don`t own guns. Sadly, you are just kneedeep in a deep # dogma mixed with gun-fever.

If my father suddenly one day had bought a gun..FOR PROTECTION - I would go WTF!! He has lost his mind! WTF!!! This nice and cool man have bought a gun! It doesn`t mix!!
Everybody i know, and they know, would think the same. But for you, it is all normal. Real scary.



Answer me this:

You have no problem with killing a human?
Becoming a murderer?

Do christians own guns in the US btw? Do they shoot down trespassers? lol


The problem has gone on for too long, you have no chance of getting out. You need your guns now.



If this world is a high school, US is the jock, the bully, and the dramaqueen. They choke the life out of your great musicians and artists that the world love.
Your teeth are stained in blood, and you seem to love the taste of it.


*** off

People like you really make me stop and think, about how downright bassackwards humans can be. Self-defense is murder? I might feel some regret if I killed a mugger or home-invader, but that's not a guarantee. Do you suppose that if someone robbed me or killed me that they'd ever feel regret? I'm sorry, but you're insane. You've been duped by European aristocracy for so long that now you gleefully embrace the notion that self-defense is a crime. American patriotism scares YOU perhaps? Well European serfdom scares ME even more.