American Patriotism Terrifies me!!

Originally posted by Constitutional Scholar
reply to post by MorningStar8741

 

Well why not specifically address the point I made?

Ah wait, I know, because it would destroy your anti gun stance

Actually, I do not have an anti-gun stance. I am just interested in the debate. Please show me where I ever stated a stance or advocated for gun control.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. I know it is a stupid arguement and get us nowhere.

What I do know, as someone who was attacked by someone with a knife is that my weapon would have done me no good since I never saw it coming. Will I give up my right to own a weapon? NO. I will never be in that situation again; becoming complacent in familiar places and not paying attention.

As far as patriotism and fear. I really do not have an answer to that. Maybe we have all become so politically correct that we actually fear the thought more than the consequences. To me that is a scary proposition. I firmly believe that it is alright to believe that you or your country is better than someone elses, as long as it is not blind belief and you can factually back it up.

I do not know who said it;

Patriotism is a love for your country, Nationalism is a love for your government.

reply to post by MorningStar8741


Specifically what about the debate interests you?

Are you interested in the pro gun control crowds avoiding the idea that guns PREVENT exponentially more crimes than they are used in the commission of?

How about the pro gun control crowds ignorance of history, logic, law, the Constitution, and common sense?

Does that interest you?

Originally posted by capgrup
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. I know it is a stupid arguement and get us nowhere.

The purpose of Americans owning guns was to keep the goverment from being corrupt, correct? When corruption occurs and the government gets too powerful, the people will be armed for a revolution to occur, if the people lose their rights.

Going back to the "guns don't kill people, people kill people," comment - now lets say everyone was armed with a nuke (world wide). Would this keep others from using nukes?

[edit on 13-10-2008 by DJMessiah]

Originally posted by Constitutional Scholar
reply to post by MorningStar8741

 

Specifically what about the debate interests you?

Are you interested in the pro gun control crowds avoiding the idea that guns PREVENT exponentially more crimes than they are used in the commission of?

How about the pro gun control crowds ignorance of history, logic, law, the Constitution, and common sense?

Does that interest you?

First of all, I am so sorry that I addressed your little boy, Mrs. Truthtellist's Mom. I am so glad that I addressed him directly so that you could attack me as some kind of anti gun nut that I am not. Now, shhhhhhhhh.

If you just want to fling pro-gun crap around, fling it at someone who is arguing with you.

If you want to answer my question about the UK, please do so.

If you want to prove where I took the stance that you are attacking me for, fine.

If you want to play gatekeeper for other posters...I will just ignore you. I addressed Truthtellist. I have no argument with you, and you none with me. Get off me, get on topic, worry about you.

reply to post by DJMessiah


(Partial quote from DJMessiah)
"Going back to the "guns don't kill people, people kill people," comment - now lets say everyone was armed with a nuke (world wide). Would this keep others from using nukes?"

Actually, though I could be incorrect, I thought that was exactly what happened during the cold war. It was called " M.A.D." Mutually assured destruction..

The threat of a nuclear first strike by either the USA or the USSR. was mitigated by the simple fact and fear that the retaliation would not only completely decimate both nations but the Earth itself..

[edit on 13-10-2008 by SideWynder]

There is a HUGE difference in being a government lap dog and a patriot. I love my freedoms i love my guns and my faith, but i do not blindly follow my government. What exactly is wrong with caring for ones country and its people. I consider myself a patriot but do not condone everything my government does or says. Which is the way most Americans feel. Perhaps the reason Americans seem more and more patriotic is because we keep facing crap like this from outsiders. Every one wants to taunt and point fingers at the US, so how can you expect the people not to rise and say to hell with you we're americans and proud to be so. I believe that it is all the foreign hate and misguided hate for the general populous that has given rise to the new neo-patriot trend. If you don't like hearing that we are American and damned proud to be so then stop pointing your Damned finger at the US people.

Originally posted by SideWynder
"I would also like to pose a question to those that are not from the USA.
Regarding "Patriotism"

Do those of you that are from differing countries not have a sense of Patriotism for your own country?

I am not meaning to be a smart alec. I truly don't understand why there is this question about Patriotism,

This may be naieve of me, But I always "assumed" that most people considered themselves "patriotic" to thier own country. (yes I know that there would be exceptions)"


I asked this question early in this thread and have not recieved a direct reply to it, So I would like to post it again..

from reading this thread I have been getting the feeling that "patriotism" in other countries seems to have a different meaning than it does to most "Americans".. Or as some other posters have suggested, is Patriotism being confused with nationalism? or some other "ism"?

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman

If I ever offend you, I feel gratified. Let me speak in your language. Moo.

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
reply to post by JipStix

 

Gun owners kinda scare me aswell, like they need to over compensate for something, particularly the ones who cling onto the second ammendment like it was written yesterday - guns serve no purpose in a civilised society

What makes you think we live in civilized society?

If every man owned a gun, then drug dealers and criminals couldn't take over neighborhoods. Obviously, being "civilized" doesn't help a lot of people.

reply to post by TruthTellist


Mod Edit - Snipped unnecessarily provocative comment

They have no concept of patriotism or why it is actually the most peace-loving among us who are willing to kill to preserve the peace.

Not one of these anti-American, anti-gun motor-mouths have ever, ever, saved a single innocent's life by taking on an evil predator one on one.

They have no idea of how sick inside you feel when you see innocents executed and slaughtered just because they were peaceful people who only wanted to live their lives.

They have no idea at the rage that wells up inside that drives your moral outrage against those who would murder, just because they want to and because they can.

They have no idea of what level of courage it takes to step right out front, take the bull by the horns and meet ruthless evil with ever greater ruthlessness, by someone who just wants the senseless killing to end.

They have no idea what it's like to take responsibility for their own security. They love to drink deeply of the milk of peace and freedom, but don't want to dirty their hands and do anything to help maintain the cow.

Hell, they probably can't even butcher their own food. They purchase packaged food exclusively.

No, you'll never convince them of the utter foolishness of their premises because they've always been sheltered by men like us.

And yes, I'm armed. Psychotic? Who knows? But one thing you can count on - if I am on the premises or nearby when the shooting starts and you are unarmed, I'll suddenly become your best friend.

Or not. I really don't give a damn either way. But I'll continue to defend myself, you, and anyone else that requires it.


[edit on 14/1008/08 by neformore]

reply to post by Merriman Weir


You're right, I got a little carried away there. Tell ya what - let's do a little research here - let's ask the Scots and the Irish and maybe the Welsh while we are at it, how they feel about English patriotism, and just to be fair so you don't think I am biased we can pose the same question to the Native American population about American patriotism.

You seem to think history doesn't matter, but I say it just might depend on your perspective.

I do know this - I don't intend to buy into the Globalist One World agenda crap that seems to be overtaking many peoples thinking these days. I will remain a patriot to my nations people, not necessarily our people's govt.

Cheers!

reply to post by DisgustedOne


Good for you! I am not a big soccer fan because it's not big here in the States, but from what I've seen of your soccer fans when playing other countries, you guys rock!

I think you may be a lot like Americans. We may squabble among ourselves a bit, but don't any outsider try to interfere!

Yeah. New World Order? More like New World Revolution.

A true Patriot upholds the Constitution and Liberty in all instances, never giving up Liberty for protection and questioning the Govt at the highest levels.

Dissent is the highest form of Patriotism.

Blindly following and supporting the Govt in all it does without question is Tyranny and the beginning of Fascism

WE THE PEOPLE


The Govt should Fear the People, the people should not fear its Govt

I guess its better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have it right?

Originally posted by Constitutional Scholar

How can you possibly be so blind? How can someone who manages to breathe actually believe that government has the peoples best interests and freedom in mind?

How did you manage to eek out that particular nugget from what I actually said? Where did I actually say that I think "that government has the peoples best interests and freedom in mind?" Is that some kind of strawman?

I dont own guns because the government is going to turn against me, thats just one of the numerous reasons for private gun ownership.

But isn't that the basis and the context of the second amendment though? I don't really remember reading stuff about taking on a muggers on burglars, unless you're raising a standing army to stop someone taking your iPod away.

How can you feel only the government should have guns? Think they are going to protect you at all times?

Maybe, maybe not. However, I think civilians without combat training are deluding themselves with your nightmare scenario. Firstly, if a government wants to take over it's own people by force as a preface to genuine tyranny, then 'rules of engagement' will have gone right out of the window, there's going to no 'fair fight' and if anyone thinks they really can take down the American military with a handgun they are deluded.

For example, inevitably, there's threads on here where people are fairly certain that the American military is the 'biggest, best' and most capable and able to take on any other army in the world. Yet, when it comes down to it, they still won't be able to take on their own civilians with hand guns? The American military is capable of defeating China, Russia &c, but not its own people?

[edit on 14-10-2008 by Merriman Weir]

[edit on 14-10-2008 by Merriman Weir]

[edit on 14-10-2008 by Merriman Weir]

[edit on 14-10-2008 by Merriman Weir]

[edit on 14-10-2008 by Merriman Weir]

Mod Edit: Fixed tags

[edit on 14-10-2008 by Gemwolf]

Regarding my above post, I've tried to edit it several times to stop it appearing as a giant single quote, but when it looks fine in preview, after posting, it reverts to a large single quote and removes the content I actually added.

Originally posted by DisgustedOne
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

You're right, I got a little carried away there. Tell ya what - let's do a little research here - let's ask the Scots and the Irish and maybe the Welsh while we are at it, how they feel about English patriotism, and just to be fair so you don't think I am biased we can pose the same question to the Native American population about American patriotism.

I don't really have to: my parent were born in Wales and I grew-up in my Welsh grandfather's house.

If you're really interested in English patriotism, you must be aware of the current writing and discussion on how, whilst Irish, Scots and Welsh identity and patriotism is fostered but, English patriotism and identity has been to a large extent lost. The question 'what is English?' is something that has produced a lot of books and articles over the last few years. The English, generally are encouraged to be British, whilst the rest of Britain are encouraged to nurture their own national identities.

I'm not really sure where anyone in this thread is talking about an English patriotism, as far as I'm aware, you're the first to bring it up.

Also, it was only yesterday - I think - that I added 'England' to my location status. I only did so because I'd seen a comment on this board about people appearing to bash Americans but were too cowardly to state where in the world they were from. Now whilst I don't think I bash Americans per se, I thought, in discussions about international issues, perhaps it was, on some level at least, only fair I said where I was from.

You seem to think history doesn't matter, but I say it just might depend on your perspective.

Nope, not exactly sure why you should think that. I'm actually a big fan of history and genealogy. However, what I'm not a big fan of is people trying to carry grudges over 200, 300, or even 400 years. It's like when Irish Americans start shaking internet fists at the English over the 1840s famines. Why? Is anyone alive now responsible? Do they think that all our ancestors were responsible? I know exactly what my ancestors were doing in the 1840s and it wasn't capitalising on what was happening in Ireland. It's funny how these kinds of history experts don't really have an understanding of what it was like in 'cruel England' during that time. I often wonder whether, despite lapping up anything that suggests the English were murderous swine, they actually read anything about that particular time period in general. I challenge anyone to read the work of Marx and Engels regarding the conditions they found up and down England in the mid-1840s and still claim that 'the English' were responsible for the famine and capitalised on it or how 'the English' were really able to open the doors to a large influx of Irish immigrants at the time without there being problems.

Yesterday, there was a story about Mary, Queen of Scots. How some SNP wants her body 'returned' to Scotland for burial. She's been dead 400 years! I have the same problems when I see Americans banging on about a war that started in 1775 as if they fought it themselves.

History isn't the problem it's how people use history now.

to put a UK spin on it, we currently have this drive to target "Knife crime" with many of the campaigns seemingly focussing on the knives themselves?!?!?

Clearly this is preposterous as the reasons are not the existence of knives but why young men choose to use knives ( in the UK it is a combination of family breakdown, lack of respect for authority etc)


Legally held guns are a great thing, I know I would get one if I lived in the US

To those of You in the UK Surveillance Society:




And let's face it; The US Government now tortures children sexually in front of their parents in order to obtain information. The Bush administration has used the Patriot Act 1 and 2 aswell as PDD-51 to remove what legal/constitutional protections Americans had left to Ensure their freedom was upheld.

America is under a State of Emergency and has been since 9/11. Continuity of Government plans were implemented on that day also.

Only a Stupid American would refuse to arms themselves under such circumstances.

Here are some examples of what I am referring to:

Google: Bilderberg Group
Google: Alex Jones Bohemian Grove (he exposes them),
Google: NSPDD-51 - this is on the .gov websites
Google: REX- 84, RX 84
Google: Continuity of Government, John Warren Defense Commission -.gov
Google: John Yoo Torture Memo (sexual torture of children authorized)
Google: Patriot Act 1 & 2

*Please stop making snide remarks about Americans arming themselves in case of British re-Invasion. We all know full well why Patriots arm themselves.

The Human Rights Violations and War Crimes of the Bush Administration did not occur in the years preceding 1776, they are happening now.

And if you happen to find yourself to be suspected of terrorism, your children can be sexually tortured in front of you until you tell the nice marines what they want to know.

I won't even travel to America, that is how scared I am of their Gestapos the HSD. I don't want to disappear and be tortured for the rest of my life by psychotic American soldiers handpicked for the job. Bush authorized via John Yoo the torture-rape and mutilation of children's genitalia as a method of 'Advanced Interrogation" in front of their parents - so as to better 'persuade' them to reveal pertinent Data.

It is so sick. This Truth is more horrible than anything. It is sanctioned by the Bush Regime.

I don't want to go to any country that does that. It could happen to anyone, and no one would ever know. People would just think I went missing. Nazi Germany didn't even have the courage to advertise their Evil the way NeoCon America does.

I hope you can now see why American Patriots choose to keep Arms.

It has nothing to do with British Re-Invasion. It has everything to do with the clear and Present danger which the NeoCon Regime Represents - Not King George circa 1776.

[edit on 14-10-2008 by TruthTellist]