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reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 12:07 AM by mental modulator

Originally posted by plumranch

They're running a smear campaign against Barack Obama

reply to post by Frankidealist35

Are you denying that Barack had/ has terrorist friends! We're supposed to be denying ignorance here, you know.

FYO, Fox is currently running a financial special unraveling the current fanancial crisis and showing probable cause. Names like Franks, Dodds, Obama, Schumer and Pelosi not surprisingly come up a lot as culprits.

You FORGOT the NAMES BUSH, BUSH, CHILVE, TEMPTLETON, MCCAIN...

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 12:10 AM by darkangel831

Another question:

Is this not factual?

Ayers was one of the original grantees of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, a school reform organization in the 1990s, and was cochairman of the Chicago School Reform Collaborative, one the two operational arms of the CAC. Obama, then not yet a state senator, became chairman of the CAC in 1995. Later in that year, the first organizing meeting for Obama's state Senate campaign was held in Ayers's apartment. Ayers later wrote a memoir, and an article about him appeared in the New York Times on Sept. 11, 2001. "I don't regret setting bombs," Ayers is quoted as saying. "I feel we didn't do enough."

US News

If this is not factual, and can be proven such, I will gladly appologize.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 12:13 AM by TheRooster

reply to post by pluckynoonez

Watching that reminded me of the Michael Richards meltdown, rather uncomfortable to watch IMHO.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 12:15 AM by Buck Division

Originally posted by plumranch

They're running a smear campaign against Barack Obama

reply to post by Frankidealist35

Are you denying that Barack had/ has terrorist friends! We're supposed to be denying ignorance here, you know.

I see where you are coming from, but here is the truth: Obama has some casual association with one person who was sympathetic to certain domestic terrorists.

You are defining "friend" and "terrorist" in a way that is somewhat non-standard, hyperbolic in fact, in order to emphasize a point.

An associate is someone you know. A friend is someone you like. A terrorist is someone who performs violent acts to generate terror. A sympathizer is someone who agrees with someone else.

I can see that you are angry. But ask yourself, is this anger based on anything real? Or is it just something that is being generated in order to meet someone else's objective?

[edit on 6-10-2008 by Buck Division]

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 12:17 AM by Frankidealist35

reply to post by darkangel831

What does that have to do with Obama? So someone who Obama once knew in the past had some involvement with terrorists? That has nothing to do with Obama.

This is just like when they smeared Obama for Reverend Right. IT ALMOST WORKED.

It will be interesting to see how voters react to this. Will they accept it as fact and believe that Obama is a terrorist or will they refuse to accept more of this BS?

Statements like these are slanderous and cannot be proven true. They are nothing but heated accusations that take away from the current crisis we have at hand with our economy.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 12:18 AM by mental modulator

Originally posted by darkangel831
Another question:

Is this not factual?

Ayers was one of the original grantees of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, a school reform organization in the 1990s, and was cochairman of the Chicago School Reform Collaborative, one the two operational arms of the CAC. Obama, then not yet a state senator, became chairman of the CAC in 1995. Later in that year, the first organizing meeting for Obama's state Senate campaign was held in Ayers's apartment. Ayers later wrote a memoir, and an article about him appeared in the New York Times on Sept. 11, 2001. "I don't regret setting bombs," Ayers is quoted as saying. "I feel we didn't do enough."

US News

If this is not factual, and can be proven such, I will gladly appologize.

SO Obama blow up people! I get it now!

Thanks!

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 12:19 AM by pluckynoonez

reply to post by TheRooster

Really? The crew loved it and Doocy, the Catholic, was sweating. I thought it was brilliant.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 12:19 AM by TheRooster

reply to post by Buck Division

Buck, I got ya. I work my you know what off and don't really have time to research everything I read so I don't really put much faith in any of it. Its why I come on ATS so often. The guy that sent me the email HATES McCain, I just found it interesting and was wondering what the OP thougth.

If this was actually written by this woman, I wonder what drives her fear, know what I mean?

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 12:22 AM by TheRooster

reply to post by pluckynoonez

IMHO Brad took it right to the edge. Don't get me wrong, I love insult comics, but it just seems like... Maybe I should watch it again, maybe I missed something.

edited to add: Well, I'm a practicing Catholic, perhaps that was it.

[edit on 10/6/2008 by TheRooster]

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 12:24 AM by Fathom

Originally posted by TheRooster
Fox is the only news channel NOT smearing McCain/Palin. Have any comment on that?

Yes I have a cooment on that.
"News" STATIONS SHOULDN'T BE SMEARING ANY POLITICIAN. they are to "report" the news, not try to explain, distort, make up, the news.
They also should remain impartial on political issues.

Folks, we don't have real news media anymore if we ever did.

it has always been biased.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 12:25 AM by dgtempe

reply to post by Buck Division

You are sooo right. I have turned from a bubbly personality, everything is ok and love everyone to a bitter woman. A hag.
A witch.
I am now jaded.
Thanks to this world.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 12:30 AM by Buck Division

Originally posted by darkangel831
Another question:

Is this not factual?

Ayers was one of the original grantees of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, a school reform organization in the 1990s, and was cochairman of the Chicago School Reform Collaborative, one the two operational arms of the CAC. Obama, then not yet a state senator, became chairman of the CAC in 1995. Later in that year, the first organizing meeting for Obama's state Senate campaign was held in Ayers's apartment. Ayers later wrote a memoir, and an article about him appeared in the New York Times on Sept. 11, 2001. "I don't regret setting bombs," Ayers is quoted as saying. "I feel we didn't do enough."

It doesn't matter if it is factual or not. Please follow me....

What matters here is whether Obama supports domestic terrorism.

You are implying that he does, by taking one tiny snapshot. It is an anecdotal type of argument that doesn't show any sort of pattern, but is quite agreeable to speculation of the most negative kind.

For example, I can say "John is a worthless alchoholic. I've seen him in a bar several times drinking heavily, and I saw him buying a six pack at the grocery yesterday." But the truth is, John is not an alchoholic, rarely drinks in bars or at home, and is not worthless at all. But I've smeared him anyway.

What I would say would be convincing would be some statement, directly by Obama, indicating his views. There just isn't any evidence in your statement about those views, and this anecdote is just designed to fill people with anger and hatred.

Why? To what end? Obviously, because it improves McCain's chances of being elected. It is manipulation.

Edit: Pesky quotes...

[edit on 6-10-2008 by Buck Division]

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 12:31 AM by TheRooster

Originally posted by Fathom
Yes I have a cooment on that.
"News" STATIONS SHOULDN'T BE SMEARING ANY POLITICIAN. they are to "report" the news, not try to explain, distort, make up, the news.
They also should remain impartial on political issues.

Folks, we don't have real news media anymore if we ever did.

it has always been biased.

I agree with you. The 24 hour news cycle has also played into everybody's fears as well. About the only fair and balanced news available anymore is the naked news on Playboy. Well I think its fair and balanced, I watch it with the volume down.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 12:31 AM by mental modulator

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by darkangel831

What does that have to do with Obama? So someone who Obama once knew in the past had some involvement with terrorists? That has nothing to do with Obama.

This is just like when they smeared Obama for Reverend Right. IT ALMOST WORKED.

It will be interesting to see how voters react to this. Will they accept it as fact and believe that Obama is a terrorist or will they refuse to accept more of this BS?

Statements like these are slanderous and cannot be proven true. They are nothing but heated accusations that take away from the current crisis we have at hand with our economy.

The problem is that the entire line of ACCUSATION depend upon speculation.

If guilt by association was a crime I would be in the can for life.

Actually I think this JUG PARTY is in reaction to the polls... PALIN turns off indies and
Mccain is like an autistic flee with his knee jerks...

Right now OBAMA has a solid 264 out off 270 -
This may change, but Mccain is circling the drain and the best bet is to take Obama
on the ride and prey Obama flushes first.

The funny thing is that Mccain did not learn from CLINTON...

This is a rehash of the primaries, timing wise.

My guess is that Mccain is gonna really mess up with this tactic.
The strategy as a whole is not fluid and can be interpreted as the cheek that cried wolf.

OBAMA will likely spin this as MCCAIN is trying to shift focus off of the economy.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 12:34 AM by darkangel831

reply to post by Buck Division

Perhaps I can work out your reply, as your formatting was confusing..

I implied nothing.

I asked the question and received more deflection.

The article shows association, I asked if it was factual.

If the associations are innocent, why is every Obama supporter afraid of them?

Why the call to "not watch" a channel that is discussing them?

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 12:38 AM by Fathom

does anyone know what the result was on the "obama is not a citizen" law suit?

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 12:43 AM by darkangel831

Another question:

Is any of this relevent?

JERUSALEM – The board of a nonprofit organization on which Sen. Barack Obama served as a paid director alongside a confessed domestic terrorist granted funding to a controversial Arab group that mourns the establishment of Israel as a "catastrophe" and supports intense immigration reform, including providing drivers licenses and education to illegal aliens.

Obama was a director of the Woods Fund board from 1999 to Dec. 11, 2002, according to the Fund's website. According to tax filings, Obama received compensation of $6,000 per year for his service in 1999 and 2000.

Obama served on the Wood's Fund board alongside William C. Ayers, a member of the Weathermen terrorist group which sought to overthrow of the U.S. government and took responsibility for bombing the U.S. Capitol in 1971.

He has multiple times expressed support for Palestinian terror, calling suicide bombings response to "Israeli aggression." He dedicated his 1986 book, "Under Siege," to "those who gave their lives ... in defense of the cause of Palestine and independence of Lebanon." Critics assailed the book as excusing Palestinian terrorism.

While the Woods Fund's contribution to Khalidi's AAAN might be perceived as a one-time run in with Obama, the presidential hopeful and Khalidi evidence a deeper relationship.

WND

Are not the associations of a possible future president important?

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 12:46 AM by Buck Division

Originally posted by darkangel831
reply to post by Buck Division

Perhaps I can work out your reply, as your formatting was confusing..

Yeah -- fixed that. Thanks.

I implied nothing.

There was a clear implication to me that Obama is friends with a terrorist. You may not have meant that. Maybe I misinterpreted?

I asked the question and received more deflection.

Not sure what you mean by "deflection". I thought I gave you a clear response. But the formatting was kind of screwy, so maybe it wasn't clear.

The article shows association, I asked if it was factual.

Sounds like it is factual to me. If it isn't factual, then it is a malicious lie, and I don't think McCain or his staff is malicious. They are just manipulative. (Yeah -- it is true of both sides, and not just McCain.)

What I was trying to respond to was that it really doesn't matter whether it was factual or not. What I was saying is that you can't reach any conclusions from the article regarding Obama's viewpoint on whether domestic terrorism was justified or Bill Ayers is a good guy. There isn't any info there to support that type of conclusion.

If the associations are innocent, why is every Obama supporter afraid of them?

Okay -- that is purely speculative, which is what I was saying is the problem. You are jumping to a negative conclusion by making an assumption. I think Obama supporters are irritated by something they see is non-issue related and distorted, and a real time waster. I can't speak for everyone, but I suspect that is the situation you are perceiving as "fear" -- Obama supporters are being defensive -- quite different from fearful -- but they may appear similar.

Why the call to "not watch" a channel that is discussing them?

Don't take it seriously. It is clear to me that the OP was speaking in a joking manner. Clearly people are free to watch whatever. I think the OP was just cleverly drawing attention to Fox News bias, which is the subject of this thread IMO.

So anyway, a good debate!

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 12:51 AM by mental modulator

reply to post by darkangel831

Founding Member of the Keating Five

Back in the old days, defendants in famous trials got numbers -- the Chicago Eight, the Gang of Four, the Dave Clark Five, the Daytona 500. McCain was one of the "Keating Five," congressmen investigated on ethics charges for strenuously helping convicted racketeer Charles Keating after he gave them large campaign contributions and vacation trips.

Charles Keating was convicted of racketeering and fraud in both state and federal court after his Lincoln Savings & Loan collapsed, costing the taxpayers $3.4 billion. His convictions were overturned on technicalities; for example, the federal conviction was overturned because jurors had heard about his state conviction, and his state charges because Judge Lance Ito (yes, that judge) screwed up jury instructions. Neither court cleared him, and he faces new trials in both courts.)

Though he was not convicted of anything, McCain intervened on behalf of Charles Keating after Keating gave McCain at least $112,00 in contributions. In the mid-1980s, McCain made at least 9 trips on Keating's airplanes, and 3 of those were to Keating's luxurious retreat in the Bahamas. McCain's wife and father-in-law also were the largest investors (at $350,000) in a Keating shopping center; the Phoenix New Times called it a "sweetheart deal."

YA we should!

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 12:51 AM by darkangel831

reply to post by Buck Division

Actually an OUTSTANDING debate!!!

The point I am making is that anyone with any common sense at all, that aspires to the most important job, arguably in the world, would be more selective in his associations....

I also don't have a problem with exposing those associations on either side.. I think they sign up for that when they run for the office.

Just seems pretty sloppy if it is truly not of a suspicious nature...

I for one don't see a lot of difference in either candidate. I fail to see how the election of either one will make such a big difference in any of our lives.

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