reply to post by friendforafoe
Thanks for piping in, always nice to get a "pros" take. I would have added it to the other thread, however, there does seem to be information from
alternate sources.
Certainly it could be "disinfo", but disinfo generally has a reason and a purpose as well. The pirates are known for spreading disinformation, in
part to garner national attention.
They are spreading terror and they are known to be working with insurgents.
Looks like it's resulting in their undoing. ballast
The Iranian Mystery Ship: Death from the Sea , page 3
privacy
reply posted on 5-10-2008 @ 01:11 PM by makeitso
Thank you for the info friendforafoe. Much appreciated.
However, I have some questions about your post. Please indulge my curiosity because it seems that some of your information is accidentally inaccurate or a bit misleading.
Negative.
See Hassan Allore Osman
Negative.
He was arrested for allegedly issuing alarmist statements, not false statements.
Apanews.net
It is noteable that Kenya arrested him right after he said that the tanks were bound for Sudan via a route thru Kenya. (Can you say agenda?)
This happened weeks after he said the MV Iran pirates were dying, thus it was not about the MV Iran.
Negative.
He recieved the info from other Seafarers Chapters.
Negative.
My understanding is that there are 14 pirated ships, not 12.
Perhaps, (although you are in a great position to help us understand, and we appreciate the input), you are not privy to all the available info?
[edit on 10/5/08 by makeitso]
However, I have some questions about your post. Please indulge my curiosity because it seems that some of your information is accidentally inaccurate or a bit misleading.
Originally posted by friendforafoe
The WHOLE speculation of the vessel carrying nuclear materials started from Andrew Mwangura
Negative.
See Hassan Allore Osman
Originally posted by friendforafoe
HE WAS JUST ARRESTED FOR MAKING FALSIFIED CLAIMS ABOUT SEVERAL SHIPS INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE M/V IRAN DEYANAT
Negative.
He was arrested for allegedly issuing alarmist statements, not false statements.
Apanews.net
Local media reports confirmed on Thursday that the police arrested Mwangura on Wednesday night for allegedly issuing alarmist statements to the media
It is noteable that Kenya arrested him right after he said that the tanks were bound for Sudan via a route thru Kenya. (Can you say agenda?)
This happened weeks after he said the MV Iran pirates were dying, thus it was not about the MV Iran.
Originally posted by friendforafoe
THE MAN JUST GOT ARRESTED FOR MAKING ALL OF THIS UP!
Negative.
He recieved the info from other Seafarers Chapters.
“The information Mwangura has been relaying to the media came from his sources in the Ukrainian and Russian chapters of the Seafarers Assistance,”
Originally posted by friendforafoe
believe me when I say, we're monitoring all 12 of the currently pirated vessels
Negative.
My understanding is that there are 14 pirated ships, not 12.
Perhaps, (although you are in a great position to help us understand, and we appreciate the input), you are not privy to all the available info?
[edit on 10/5/08 by makeitso]
reply posted on 5-10-2008 @ 01:17 PM by poet1b
reply to post by friendforafoe
Hmm, so as a sailor in the U.S. Navy, where would you turn to for a good source of information on basic U.S. Navy standards? What time is it, where you are located?
Hmm, so as a sailor in the U.S. Navy, where would you turn to for a good source of information on basic U.S. Navy standards? What time is it, where you are located?
reply posted on 5-10-2008 @ 01:24 PM by ballast
reply to post by TrueAmerican
"Edit to add: Another thing is also the issue of satellite detection of radiation signatures. I have to wonder if they are picking up anything."
Great point! I read in one of the articles on the Ukranian ship the U.S. helicopters were flying over. By now I'm sure that they've probably flown over the Iranian ship now with a detector.
I just posted info. on the U.S. sanctions on the Islamic Republic Shipping Lines which was done "after" this ship was taken.
I do not think that they would "officially" release information on the ship "if" it contains "a dirty bomb". For one thing it would be way to vulnerable. I would think that they would want full control of it first.
In fact, I would think that the less people that know, the better. In any other incident, the info is never released until well after the fact. The international ramifications would be staggering.
If this is the case, with the politics lately, I would think/hope it would be open to international inspection. No misunderstandings that way.
Russia is practicing with nuclear jets very close to the U.S. border. I do not know when they planned the exercise, but the timing with all of the recent turmoil, including financial, may be significant.
One of the articles listed explosives on the ship, so if true it was ready to be rigged.
"Edit to add: Another thing is also the issue of satellite detection of radiation signatures. I have to wonder if they are picking up anything."
Great point! I read in one of the articles on the Ukranian ship the U.S. helicopters were flying over. By now I'm sure that they've probably flown over the Iranian ship now with a detector.
I just posted info. on the U.S. sanctions on the Islamic Republic Shipping Lines which was done "after" this ship was taken.
I do not think that they would "officially" release information on the ship "if" it contains "a dirty bomb". For one thing it would be way to vulnerable. I would think that they would want full control of it first.
In fact, I would think that the less people that know, the better. In any other incident, the info is never released until well after the fact. The international ramifications would be staggering.
If this is the case, with the politics lately, I would think/hope it would be open to international inspection. No misunderstandings that way.
Russia is practicing with nuclear jets very close to the U.S. border. I do not know when they planned the exercise, but the timing with all of the recent turmoil, including financial, may be significant.
One of the articles listed explosives on the ship, so if true it was ready to be rigged.
reply posted on 5-10-2008 @ 01:32 PM by friendforafoe
Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by friendforafoe
Hmm, so as a sailor in the U.S. Navy, where would you turn to for a good source of information on basic U.S. Navy standards? What time is it, where you are located?
That'd be the Bluejacket's Manual my friend...or my LPO, LCPO, my CMC, or even my DIVO (it's nice having a prior-enlisted Chief as your CDR) ... it's 2131L right now ... 1831Z .... why?
reply posted on 5-10-2008 @ 01:39 PM by ballast
reply to post by makeitso
Excellent point about the timing and location of the Ukranian "tank and weapons ship"! The timing and location combined with the Iranian ship and cargo has frightening implications. Were these weapons ordered specifically for the same operation?
Thank you for clearing up the "alarmist" vs. "falsified" claims.
I believe more is going on here than meets the eye and that it's worth investigating.
Excellent point about the timing and location of the Ukranian "tank and weapons ship"! The timing and location combined with the Iranian ship and cargo has frightening implications. Were these weapons ordered specifically for the same operation?
Thank you for clearing up the "alarmist" vs. "falsified" claims.
I believe more is going on here than meets the eye and that it's worth investigating.
reply posted on 5-10-2008 @ 02:00 PM by ballast
reply to post by chips
Excellent reminder! Disinfo. can be a mighty catalyst. The very last thing we need is more war.
Good to hear the Navy has their head screwed on correctly. Somebody should be looking out for the "people" and abide by the constitution.
I hardly think that a thread on ATS is going to start anything. Frankly, I've found most people laugh in utter scorn at ATS and internet information in general.
Excellent reminder! Disinfo. can be a mighty catalyst. The very last thing we need is more war.
Good to hear the Navy has their head screwed on correctly. Somebody should be looking out for the "people" and abide by the constitution.
I hardly think that a thread on ATS is going to start anything. Frankly, I've found most people laugh in utter scorn at ATS and internet information in general.
reply posted on 5-10-2008 @ 02:04 PM by poet1b
reply to post by friendforafoe
Well, not much of a check, but thought someone should ask something. Hmm, do you really think that anyone would expect you to tell us what is actually going on if you are an Intelligence Analyst on a ship parked in the vicinity of the Indian Ocean? How's Dodge these days? Is the pirce of Jack Daniels still incredibly cheap there, Sir?
If you don't come here to speculate whether or not that picture from the Mar's Rover might be evidence of Alien's having been to Mars, or prior existence of civilization on Mars, or just a strangley shaped rock, why do you hang out here?
I think it is funny that this story hasn't gotten more coverage. I would think that mainstream press might make an attempt to disprove of these types of rumors circulating the internet. Tales of pirates and dangerous cargo discovered would seem to me to sell newspapers, especially considering how desperate these news hounds seem to be these days.
Where would an Iranian vessel carrying some toxic cocktail from China be headed, if this story has any merit? The diry bomb concept doesn't seem to be plausible enough to me, but as speculation goes, not a bad starting point. Let's say this stuff was well covered until the pirates came into the picture, and foolishly exposed this deadly cargo. The ship could have off loaded anywhere in the Red sea, to have the stuff transported over land to within short range misile distance. Maybe the ship was trying to avoid the main shipping lanes to remain undetected, and that is why it fell into the hands of the pirates.
[edit on 5-10-2008 by poet1b]
Well, not much of a check, but thought someone should ask something. Hmm, do you really think that anyone would expect you to tell us what is actually going on if you are an Intelligence Analyst on a ship parked in the vicinity of the Indian Ocean? How's Dodge these days? Is the pirce of Jack Daniels still incredibly cheap there, Sir?
If you don't come here to speculate whether or not that picture from the Mar's Rover might be evidence of Alien's having been to Mars, or prior existence of civilization on Mars, or just a strangley shaped rock, why do you hang out here?
I think it is funny that this story hasn't gotten more coverage. I would think that mainstream press might make an attempt to disprove of these types of rumors circulating the internet. Tales of pirates and dangerous cargo discovered would seem to me to sell newspapers, especially considering how desperate these news hounds seem to be these days.
Where would an Iranian vessel carrying some toxic cocktail from China be headed, if this story has any merit? The diry bomb concept doesn't seem to be plausible enough to me, but as speculation goes, not a bad starting point. Let's say this stuff was well covered until the pirates came into the picture, and foolishly exposed this deadly cargo. The ship could have off loaded anywhere in the Red sea, to have the stuff transported over land to within short range misile distance. Maybe the ship was trying to avoid the main shipping lanes to remain undetected, and that is why it fell into the hands of the pirates.
[edit on 5-10-2008 by poet1b]
reply posted on 5-10-2008 @ 02:13 PM by JohnnyCanuck
Originally posted by ballast
reply to post by chips
Excellent reminder! Disinfo. can be a mighty catalyst.
Two words: October Surprise.
reply posted on 5-10-2008 @ 02:21 PM by ballast
Link to a new article on fighting the pirates and the Ukranian ship
www.newsday.com...
'Now, however, momentum is growing for coordinated international action to back up the sharp response after the stunning seizure late last month of a Ukrainian cargo ship laden with tanks and heavy weaponry — as the pirates quickly found themselves encircled by U.S. warships and receiving only silence to their demands for millions of dollars in ransom.
It could be a sign of a more aggressive and unified front in the one of the world's most important shipping lanes.
"The highest-profile incident was last week's hijacking of the MV Faina, a Ukrainian ship carrying 33 Soviet-designed tanks and weapons. The Faina, with 20 crew members on board, was anchored Friday near the central Somali town of Hobyo, with six U.S. warships within a 10-mile radius."
www.newsday.com...
'Now, however, momentum is growing for coordinated international action to back up the sharp response after the stunning seizure late last month of a Ukrainian cargo ship laden with tanks and heavy weaponry — as the pirates quickly found themselves encircled by U.S. warships and receiving only silence to their demands for millions of dollars in ransom.
It could be a sign of a more aggressive and unified front in the one of the world's most important shipping lanes.
"The highest-profile incident was last week's hijacking of the MV Faina, a Ukrainian ship carrying 33 Soviet-designed tanks and weapons. The Faina, with 20 crew members on board, was anchored Friday near the central Somali town of Hobyo, with six U.S. warships within a 10-mile radius."
reply posted on 5-10-2008 @ 02:25 PM by ballast
reply to post by ballast
www.newsday.com...
"Developed countries are contemplating their full potential arsenal: France has led a charge at the United Nations for legal powers to use force against pirates off Somalia; others floated ideas of using decoy ships to lure pirates into traps or launching amphibious assaults on pirate beachheads.
Some say shipping companies must do more — mainly by keeping a better lookout for small boats nearby. The IMB recommends round-the-clock radar watches and use of a tool called Secure Ship — a "non-lethal, electrifying fence" that sends out a 9,000-volt pulse to repel potential intruders."
Love the non-lethal solutions!
www.newsday.com...
"Developed countries are contemplating their full potential arsenal: France has led a charge at the United Nations for legal powers to use force against pirates off Somalia; others floated ideas of using decoy ships to lure pirates into traps or launching amphibious assaults on pirate beachheads.
Some say shipping companies must do more — mainly by keeping a better lookout for small boats nearby. The IMB recommends round-the-clock radar watches and use of a tool called Secure Ship — a "non-lethal, electrifying fence" that sends out a 9,000-volt pulse to repel potential intruders."
Love the non-lethal solutions!
reply posted on 5-10-2008 @ 02:30 PM by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by ballast
I have read all of your postings on this topic both on this thread as well as the earlier one. No offense, but I find your statements highly suspect. I have no reason to doubt your assertion of where you work, nor your level of knowledge of these matters. But I have no more reason to believe you than Andrew MWangura, whom you are attacking as an unreliable source. In fact, I have read the official reasons for his arrest, and I have read some of his biography. He is a known person with a name. And IMHO it is totally within reason to believe that he might have been arrested in order to shut him up and to cast doubt on what he reported.
You, on the other hand are a "friendorfoe". I haven't a clue who you are or what your motives might be. So until more is known on this matter I am certainly unwilling to act as though "nothing happened folks. move along" just because one unnamed poster on this forum says I should ! There is much surrounding these events that indicates that there is something significant about that ship. The least of which is that the Russian warship, Peter the Great, is headed to the area for the expressed purpose of responding to the Faina hijacking...no mention at all of the Deyanat. However, if you check www.lloydslist.com... you will see that it was sent there BEFORE the Faina was hijacked. What say you "friendorfoe"?
I have read all of your postings on this topic both on this thread as well as the earlier one. No offense, but I find your statements highly suspect. I have no reason to doubt your assertion of where you work, nor your level of knowledge of these matters. But I have no more reason to believe you than Andrew MWangura, whom you are attacking as an unreliable source. In fact, I have read the official reasons for his arrest, and I have read some of his biography. He is a known person with a name. And IMHO it is totally within reason to believe that he might have been arrested in order to shut him up and to cast doubt on what he reported.
You, on the other hand are a "friendorfoe". I haven't a clue who you are or what your motives might be. So until more is known on this matter I am certainly unwilling to act as though "nothing happened folks. move along" just because one unnamed poster on this forum says I should ! There is much surrounding these events that indicates that there is something significant about that ship. The least of which is that the Russian warship, Peter the Great, is headed to the area for the expressed purpose of responding to the Faina hijacking...no mention at all of the Deyanat. However, if you check www.lloydslist.com... you will see that it was sent there BEFORE the Faina was hijacked. What say you "friendorfoe"?
reply posted on 5-10-2008 @ 02:34 PM by ballast
reply to post by friendforafoe
"As far as our sanctions on IRISL-owned ships, the US Treasury Department designated IRISL under Executive Order 13382 because the company provides shipping services to Iran's Ministry of Defense and Armed Forces Logistics and facilitates shipments of military-related goods (including WMD-related materials) using deception techniques including falsifying shipping documents to hide the true end-users of shipments, employing the use of generic terms to describe shipments and avoid attracting attention of shipping authorities, and creating or making use of cover entities to conduct official company business."
Yes, including WMD-related materials, deceptive techniques-Iranian Revolutionary Guard, etc
Just what these reports are "allegedly" stating in other words?
"As far as our sanctions on IRISL-owned ships, the US Treasury Department designated IRISL under Executive Order 13382 because the company provides shipping services to Iran's Ministry of Defense and Armed Forces Logistics and facilitates shipments of military-related goods (including WMD-related materials) using deception techniques including falsifying shipping documents to hide the true end-users of shipments, employing the use of generic terms to describe shipments and avoid attracting attention of shipping authorities, and creating or making use of cover entities to conduct official company business."
Yes, including WMD-related materials, deceptive techniques-Iranian Revolutionary Guard, etc
Just what these reports are "allegedly" stating in other words?
reply posted on 5-10-2008 @ 02:40 PM by ballast
reply to post by poet1b
MV Iran Deyanat. She was an enormous floating dirty bomb, intended to detonate after exiting the Suez Canal at the eastern end of the Mediterranean and in proximity to the coastal cities of Israel.
MV Iran Deyanat. She was an enormous floating dirty bomb, intended to detonate after exiting the Suez Canal at the eastern end of the Mediterranean and in proximity to the coastal cities of Israel.
reply posted on 5-10-2008 @ 02:58 PM by friendforafoe
Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by friendforafoe
Well, not much of a check, but thought someone should ask something. Hmm, do you really think that anyone would expect you to tell us what is actually going on if you are an Intelligence Analyst on a ship parked in the vicinity of the Indian Ocean? How's Dodge these days? Is the pirce of Jack Daniels still incredibly cheap there, Sir?
If you don't come here to speculate whether or not that picture from the Mar's Rover might be evidence of Alien's having been to Mars, or prior existence of civilization on Mars, or just a strangley shaped rock, why do you hang out here?
I think it is funny that this story hasn't gotten more coverage. I would think that mainstream press might make an attempt to disprove of these types of rumors circulating the internet. Tales of pirates and dangerous cargo discovered would seem to me to sell newspapers, especially considering how desperate these news hounds seem to be these days.
Where would an Iranian vessel carrying some toxic cocktail from China be headed, if this story has any merit? The diry bomb concept doesn't seem to be plausible enough to me, but as speculation goes, not a bad starting point. Let's say this stuff was well covered until the pirates came into the picture, and foolishly exposed this deadly cargo. The ship could have off loaded anywhere in the Red sea, to have the stuff transported over land to within short range misile distance. Maybe the ship was trying to avoid the main shipping lanes to remain undetected, and that is why it fell into the hands of the pirates.
[edit on 5-10-2008 by poet1b]
I'm not on a ship my friend, I'm actually onshore stationed in Bahrain
I never actually said anything about being an intelligence analyst either though you're dead on haha AND it's okay for you to know what my rate is too. I WILL tell you what I know, and what I CAN tell you. I have no reason to lie to anybody. If I was spouting out TS information, I'd be in some # right now I promise you, but everything I've told you is unclass. I'm just saying how it is and I'm laying out all the facts that are releasable to you guys. Hell I wouldn't expect me to tell you everything either (and I defintely haven't), but honestly I'm on watch right now (and about to get off too woohoo), bored out of my mind, I do piracy stuff for a living, why not engage in conversation with people about work I do?
As far as the mars rocks ... haha. That's why I DO come here lmao. I love this type of stuff. I have a few of Mr.Hoagland's books and I love the stuff on this site ... I love a good conspiracy theory while I'm bored on watch ... This site has kept me sane many times. Tonight, I see people talking about piracy and my interest peaked. I see people jumping to conclusions and I point them back in the right direction, that's all.
reply posted on 5-10-2008 @ 03:30 PM by friendforafoe
reply to post by makeitso
Hey sorry this took so long to get back to you on, but I AM on watch right now. I also did some research for ya.
Actually it WAS Andrew Mwangura that stated it originally. Unfortunately, do to the difference in classification systems (I'm obviously on unclass and the original message I found is on the high-side). I know that looks amazingly convenient on my part, but I swear to god on this one my friend. I WAS wrong however on the date. He actually told local SOM press on the 08 SEP (which I believe was aired on Radio Shabelle then as well...), but I was remembering when I the time-late report actually came out (11 SEP) detailing everything. I haven't been able to find the original report on unclass just yet, but I did find one that came out on the 16th that talks of the "dangerous consignment" onboard from Andrew Mwangura as is pretty much word for word the original report (ironically it's from the Tehran Times haha). Here's the link: www.tehrantimes.com...
Yes he was arrested for giving alarming statements ... he claimed the weapons on FAINA were headed for Sudan, which Ukraine and Sudan (not surprisingly) denied according to one source, BUT that's actually a crime under Kenya's criminal procedure code (and has been long before his arrest) so he went to jail for that (as well as wildly exaggerating claims to garner media attention). He's also suspected of actually being associated with the pirates as well and he's still being pressed for additional piracy-related information ... we don't know if gets information through intermediaries or has other means of communication with them to be honest ... I will say he won't be making statements on pirate vessels for a good while. I wouldn't really say "agenda", but rather he DID break Kenyan law
There WAS 14 ships pirated, but like I said earlier, the Malaysian-flagged BUNGA MELATI DUA and BUNGA MELATI V were just released last week and the 80 crewmembers were flown home on Saturday ... then again there are only 12 actively pirated ships right now in the AOR ... I don't care about the rest of the world right now haha.
Yes I only have a certain TS level clearance (which I won't say what I'm actually read into seeing) and everything is based on a need to know basis and I'm not allowed to see certain pieces of information that have certain caveats, BUT I will say I'm pretty sure and can almost guarantee that I'm most definitely in the know when it comes to piracy. I'd be very surprised if it were otherwise, but then again, I still have LOTS of unanswered questions haha. Plus everytime a ship is pirated we get messages from IMB giving the basics of the attack (time / location etc)which is all unclassified...
Hey sorry this took so long to get back to you on, but I AM on watch right now. I also did some research for ya.
Actually it WAS Andrew Mwangura that stated it originally. Unfortunately, do to the difference in classification systems (I'm obviously on unclass and the original message I found is on the high-side). I know that looks amazingly convenient on my part, but I swear to god on this one my friend. I WAS wrong however on the date. He actually told local SOM press on the 08 SEP (which I believe was aired on Radio Shabelle then as well...), but I was remembering when I the time-late report actually came out (11 SEP) detailing everything. I haven't been able to find the original report on unclass just yet, but I did find one that came out on the 16th that talks of the "dangerous consignment" onboard from Andrew Mwangura as is pretty much word for word the original report (ironically it's from the Tehran Times haha). Here's the link: www.tehrantimes.com...
Yes he was arrested for giving alarming statements ... he claimed the weapons on FAINA were headed for Sudan, which Ukraine and Sudan (not surprisingly) denied according to one source, BUT that's actually a crime under Kenya's criminal procedure code (and has been long before his arrest) so he went to jail for that (as well as wildly exaggerating claims to garner media attention). He's also suspected of actually being associated with the pirates as well and he's still being pressed for additional piracy-related information ... we don't know if gets information through intermediaries or has other means of communication with them to be honest ... I will say he won't be making statements on pirate vessels for a good while. I wouldn't really say "agenda", but rather he DID break Kenyan law
There WAS 14 ships pirated, but like I said earlier, the Malaysian-flagged BUNGA MELATI DUA and BUNGA MELATI V were just released last week and the 80 crewmembers were flown home on Saturday ... then again there are only 12 actively pirated ships right now in the AOR ... I don't care about the rest of the world right now haha.
Yes I only have a certain TS level clearance (which I won't say what I'm actually read into seeing) and everything is based on a need to know basis and I'm not allowed to see certain pieces of information that have certain caveats, BUT I will say I'm pretty sure and can almost guarantee that I'm most definitely in the know when it comes to piracy. I'd be very surprised if it were otherwise, but then again, I still have LOTS of unanswered questions haha. Plus everytime a ship is pirated we get messages from IMB giving the basics of the attack (time / location etc)which is all unclassified...
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