Is the Devil really that bad? This could change the way you think of Christianity

This could change the way you think of Christianity.

Satan Evil? or just misunderstood?

In "Satan: A Biography" (Cambridge Press), Henry Ansgar Kelly puts forth the most comprehensive case ever made for sympathy for the devil, arguing that the Bible actually provides a kinder, gentler version of the infamous antagonist than typically thought.
"A strict reading of the Bible shows Satan to be less like Darth Vader and more and more like an overzealous prosecutor," said Kelly, a UCLA professor emeritus of English and the former director of the university's Center for Medieval and Renaissance Studies. "He's not so much the proud and angry figure who turns away from God as [he is] a Joseph McCarthy or J. Edgar Hoover. Satan's basic intention is to uncover wrongdoing and treachery, however overzealous and unscrupulous the means. But he's still part of God's administration."

When it comes to the Old Testament, Kelly insists that Satan's profile is considerably lower than commonly thought and significantly less menacing. By Kelly's count, Satan only appears three times in the 45 books that make up the pre-Christian scriptures, the best known being in the Book of Job. On each occasion, Satan is still firmly part of what Kelly calls "God's administration," and his activities are done at the behest of "the Big Guy." But his actions aren't evil so much as consistent with the translation of "devil" and "satan," which literally mean "adversary" in Greek and Hebrew, respectively

Similarly, a passage in the Gospel of Luke, when Jesus reports having seen "Satan fall like lightning," has been misinterpreted, according to Kelly. "Jesus saw the fall in the past because he had the vision the day before he describes it to the apostles," Kelly said. "But Jesus is referring to a future fall [of Satan] from his position as God's attorney general."

This is not to say, however, that Kelly contends that Satan is likeable.

"Jesus doesn't like him, and Paul doesn't like him," Kelly explained. "He represents the old guard in the heavenly bureaucracy, and everyone longs for him to be disbarred as the chief accuser of humankind."

Well what do you think? it changes the way i think about the devil. check out the full story...

The Devil... Gods advocate?

I'll post if i can find his book....
Peace
Justice

reply to post by ...and justice for some


Well, I didn't even read the link, sorry for that. But I'll give my view on the matter as it corresponds somewhat to the topic of this thread itself:

There are many sides in 'Lucifer' which means 'lightbringer'. Satan is not evil, Satan is conception of the 'tempter', and only those that fall in temptation, are evil, Lucifer itself is not evil. Actually there exists no such physical thing as Satan (some demonical figure, that actually exists as some evil looking character with sinister nature) - it is merely a metaphorical figure, a symbol.

Sincerely,

-v

reply to post by ...and justice for some

I agree with it 100% because although Satan may be the accuser and generally considered "Evil".. It very well may be that Satan's mission is to expose certain truths or aspect of God. I believe that if Satan is created by God, then he must be working on his behalf in a covert fashion. Very possibly a witness for God's judgment.

The way i look at it is. The people running the show here on earth are satanists, and look how they act. There just a group of absolute depraved people, doing what ever they want. The word emapthy never crosses there minds.

So the proof is in the pudding, just look at what those who lead us do. Blair follows the light, but what light is he on about?

[edit on 9/22/2008 by andy1033]

The Devil is basically a tester of man's loyalty to God... That's the bottom line. Is he bad? In the eyes of man, surely.

reply to post by andy1033


Sorry for the oneliner but dude what are you talking about?

peace

justice

reply to post by ...and justice for some


I am saying that the people who run this world on our level, worship satan(devil or what ever you call it). So by there actions you should know if what they follow is the right way.

So for one second just accept that they are devil worshippers or whatever, do you think there actions represent something that you should follow?

Originally posted by andy1033

I am saying that the people who run this world on our level, worship satan(devil or what ever you call it). So by there actions you should know if what they follow is the right way.

So for one second just accept that they are devil worshippers or whatever, do you think there actions represent something that you should follow?

Although you may *think* someone is the devil, or worships the devil or is part of the NWO, or the man.. or . You are not the ultimate judge, so why bother casting the stones? Judge only your own actions. A safe bet, because you really cannot control anyone or anything other than yourself.


[edit on 22-9-2008 by mapsurfer_]

You will know them by their fruits.

Who are the great Satanists that have started hospitals, orphanages, helped the poor, the sick, the widows, etc.? Anyone have a list?

If not, think about why not.

Originally posted by mapsurfer_
Judge only your own actions. A safe bet, because you really cannot control anyone or anything other than yourself.
[edit on 22-9-2008 by mapsurfer_]

I agree with ya mapsurfer... i actually have it tattooed on my arm saying all men answer to God witch means i dont really care what some people believe just dont force it on me and we're cool. someone want to say hey hails satan three times before going to sleep at night good for him...

peace

Justice

This is really interesting, justice.

I never saw it that way. Young christians (especially those who grew up in and around the church) already have a pre-assumed concept idea of satan, thanks to the outspoken churchies.

The only thing that will challenge that presumed idea is something inside the bible which goes directly against it, ie. "Satan is good". which of course never happens.

Either way will you side with the creator or the created? I would want to be on the creator's good side then the created.

Originally posted by sir_chancealot
Who are the great Satanists that have started hospitals, orphanages, helped the poor, the sick, the widows, etc.? Anyone have a list?

If not, think about why not.

that's an unfair test, seeing how one of the tenants of Satanism, is that they refuse to be forced to support the weak

Satanism is a religion based on the reality that man is an animal, like all others. They choose to separate themselves from a society where natural behavior is suppressed and the strong support the weak.

By definition, they do not do charity, as it is opposite to a central idea of Satanism.

I could use the same unfair argument against Christians: How many Christians have had a fair, unbiased debate on the validity of Satanism? If not, think about why not...

There is something I learned in AA.. The friends of Bill say,

God grant me serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference

Do you think Jesus Christ will judge Satan? I don't.. My best guess is that Jesus will leave that job to God the Father. Isn't there some biblical verse "Cast Not the First Stone"??

regarding the actual entity known as Satan.. I still havent been convinced that Satan is anything other than God's "bad side" which first came to light in the Book of Job.

Originally posted by scientist
By definition, they do not do charity, as it is opposite to a central idea of Satanism.

I would be unwilling to say that. You're assuming that there isn't room for charity in an animal. Dolphins Have been known to protect other animals from sharks so much that they become 'shark-repellent'. They do this completely selflessly, and they are animals. So if they can do it and they are animals then why can't Satanists?

regarding the actual entity known as Satan.. I still havent been convinced that Satan is anything other than God's "bad side" which first came to light in the Book of Job.

I like this though. Like god's internal yang.

[edit on 9/22/2008 by Good Wolf]

reply to post by Good Wolf


Thats how it was for me growing up but this makes so much more sense. instead of say the devil made me do it its really you did it and the devil is just a snitch...

The author of the book isn't making it up either i look you'll be hard pressed to find anything in the bible about satan...

peace
Justice

Originally posted by Good Wolf
You're assuming that there isn't room for charity in an animal. Dolphins Have been known to protect other animals from sharks so much that they become 'shark-repellent'. They do this completely selflessly, and they are animals. So if they can do it and they are animals then why can't Satanists?

That wasn't an opinion. Anton LaVey (founder of Church of Satan) himself spoke against charity for the reason I gave above. This is not my opinion.

The devil as a concept makes no sense.

How can there be an omnipotent god who allows a devil to exist?

And more importantly, who is the devil? Is he also omnipotent? Can the devil be saved by god, or converted to good? If not, doesnt that mean that he is incapable of good and should therefore not be maligned since he doesnt have a choice.

You see... it just makes no bloody sense.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
The devil as a concept makes no sense.

How can there be an omnipotent god who allows a devil to exist?

And more importantly, who is the devil? Is he also omnipotent? Can the devil be saved by god, or converted to good? If not, doesnt that mean that he is incapable of good and should therefore not be maligned since he doesnt have a choice.

You see... it just makes no bloody sense.

i would think that it is all part of His plan He is the Alpha and the Omega so He knows what did is and will happen.

Maybe the devil is just there to test mans faith and nothing else.

i dont know if he can be save but doesn't it say in revelations that he will be chained in the pit for 1000 years? i dont remember what it says happens after that if anything. Maybe he gets another chance.

peace

Justice