Is the Devil really that bad? This could change the way you think of Christianity

Here is another take on it all. This was found at deoxy.org:
Hooray for the devil @ Deoxy.org

A snippet from the article:
"""
In a nation with hundreds of thousands of pulpits using the devil for a whipping boy, it's probably madness to be a devil's advocate...yet it seems a bit unfair to blame today's chaos and problems on a personage who was supposedly once next in brilliance to the creator himself. Someone with Satan's credentials would need to be stark raving stupid to cause all this chaos on purpose. Lets look at a slightly different scenario which seems to escape the "fire & brimstone" set. First, lets find out who the Devil really is.
"""

Enjoy.

Obviously none of us can produce proof either way, to a believer, or non-believer, that such an evil figure does in fact exist, or does not. However, I can say one thing for certain, Evil is real in this world.

If you want to bash "Satan" as evil, you might as well add Judas Iscariot and all other "betrayers" to the list. (Oh yeah, the Catholics already do that!) Judas was only doing what he was born to do. How else would Jesus accomplish His mission of sacraficing himself for us if this weren't true? The same is also true for the entity called Satan. As a creation of God, he can only do what God allows/created him to do.

These entities were created by God, for and with a purpose He/She had in mind. Whether or not we believe this, well, it's inconsequential, because it is out of our realm of understanding to know the mind of All That Is.

If you are going to believe that God is omnipotent and omniscient, then He/She HAD to know what was going to happen, no, PLANNED what was going to happen, which throws free will out the window.

In the book of Job, Satan is just walking around the earth with the other angels, and he talks and wagers with God. Doesn't sound like some nasty adversary/usuper/enemy God threw out of heaven to be banished forever to me.
Sounds more like a couple of joes who are more or less having a good time gambling at our expense, what we around here call a pi--ing contest, instead of a "war" for the throne.
All we do as the limited creatures we are is interpret what we see and experience into a form that can make sense to us. That, to me, will never constitute the truth of All That Is, because we cannot begin to fathom that much truth.
We only see a fraction of the light available. We hear only a fraction of the sounds around us. We know only the dimensions we live in and no more.
How then, can we even begin to imagine the whole truth of the universe?
Without "evil", there woould be no reason for contention (growth) by us.
Without darkness, ther would be no light.
Keep an open mind, entertain more possibilities than just the "black and white" of it all, and you might find something you weren't expecting to find.
Answers.

From what little of him I've read in the Bible, he's described in passages as a liar, and a murderer from the beginning. In the Book of Revelation he's bound during Christ's return, and after Christ's 1,000 year reign with the slain believers who didn't take the mark in any form, he's allowed to be loose again to deceive the world, and is ultimately destroyed in the lake of fire. God's second death.

Doesn't sound like a good fellow.

Originally posted by Atlantican
The ultimate deception is to allow these two polar opposites to converge into some form of idiotic equality. I guess its a great way to expose the agnostics, which are still non believers.

Yes, 2 opposites of a dualistic nature, do produce a balanced equation. Is that idiotic? Have I just been "exposed?" I think the true ignorance is to just mix up devil, satan and lucifer, as if it were all the same thing. It's not.

satan, lucifer, devil, beelzebub... etc

all creation of wicked human mind for a purpose of spreading fear among naive, gullible sheep and to collect taxes

as simple as that

[edit on 23-9-2008 by donhuangenaro]

Originally posted by donhuangenaro
satan, lucifer, devil, beelzebub... etc

all creation of wicked human mind for a purpose of spreading fear among naive, gullible sheep and to collect taxes

as simple as that

[edit on 23-9-2008 by donhuangenaro]

Do you mean tithing? The current form you see it in, is just about entirely corrupted. (some say this is one of the current proofs of Satan's control over the churches) God accepted crop offerings, and money was only really to be given when the people couldn't haul their stuff to the Levites. Basically, tithing was a divine law used to take care of the storehouse keepers, the poor and unfortunate, the widows and orphans. These were food offerings mainly.

[edit on 23-9-2008 by massexodus]

Originally posted by donhuangenaro
satan, lucifer, devil, beelzebub... etc

all creation of wicked human mind for a purpose of spreading fear among naive, gullible sheep and to collect taxes

as simple as that

really, just that simple? Is it simple because you are ignoring the difference between these names? I'm genuinely interested in how you have decided to lump them all together. Let's throw leviathan in as well, since we're going for quantity over quality at this point.

the children's movie "charlie & the chocolate factory" comes to the forfront of my mind as an analogy...i am neither christian or satanist.

Originally posted by Old Man
The devil is a

Liar

Without the lies on which to base truth, truth becomes the lie.

If it weren't for the concept of the devil, the church would have been wiped out centuries ago.

Originally posted by v01i0
reply to post by ...and justice for some

 

Well, I didn't even read the link, sorry for that. But I'll give my view on the matter as it corresponds somewhat to the topic of this thread itself:

There are many sides in 'Lucifer' which means 'lightbringer'. Satan is not evil, Satan is conception of the 'tempter', and only those that fall in temptation, are evil, Lucifer itself is not evil. Actually there exists no such physical thing as Satan (some demonical figure, that actually exists as some evil looking character with sinister nature) - it is merely a metaphorical figure, a symbol.

Sincerely,

-v

but Lucifer isn't Satan.

why do you confuse the two?


can you supply us with actual ancient written text where it somehow implies that they are the same person?


nothing personal.


they're just not the same thing.

literally

-

reply to post by Simplynoone


Thank you.
My initial thoughts is that you can never really know, who is going to depend (be in need) from whom in the future. There has to be no escape from a final judgement for past actions either it being good or bad. What we may think of being a great imbalance might make much sense afterwards. We are not designed to predict, we are designed to live right here and now and by this condition we are judged, so things like that are only practical to us in a philosophical level. We can never make too much sense of things because our ability is limited and that is probably for a reason. I do hope things end up well even for the devil himself. Imagine having a once bad adversary to turn good, all the invaluable experience that could share. Whatever happened in the past is gone. We should focus on the future, there lays the only hope.

[edit on 23-9-2008 by spacebot]

reply to post by wheresthetruth


Thanks wheresthetruth im gonna give a read and see what all he says.

Peace

Justice

heres some Info taken form Satan a biography....

from Satan a biography...

"Balaam's departure aroused the wrath Elohim(Yahweh God G-d) and the angels of Yahweh stood in the road as satan against him. Num 22.22

In the book of Samuel and the Kings David is in the service of the Philistines, the philistines fear that he will return to the Isrealites and become a satan to them 1 Sam 29.4

In Job, however, they did find a supernatural and ''proper'' Satan in the Son of God who patrols the Earth and functions as the tempter of Job. In their translations he is consistently called ho Diabolos, ''Devil.'' The same person. Devil is to be seen as the celestial prosecutor in the book of Zechariah.....

well what do you think?

heres the link to the preview of the book again its a pretty good read.

Satan

Originally posted by ...and justice for some
In Job, however, they did find a supernatural and ''proper'' Satan in the Son of God who patrols the Earth and functions as the tempter of Job. In their translations he is consistently called ho Diabolos, ''Devil.'' The same person. Devil is to be seen as the celestial prosecutor in the book of Zechariah.....

well what do you think?

i'm confused. I thought Job was the oldest book in the bible, and therefore from the Old Testament, before there was a "Son of God." Also, the word "Devil" is nowhere in the book of Job. "Satan" in Job is translated to "adversary," which as has been stated a few times already - could very well mean the alter-ego of God, not a separate entity.

[edit on 23-9-2008 by scientist]

All we do as the limited creatures we are is interpret what we see and experience into a form that can make sense to us. That, to me, will never constitute the truth of All That Is, because we cannot begin to fathom that much truth.

Well said.

"Without Good, evil couldnt exist." That is insane. In the begining, there was... Man has divided the universe, and as a result we have divided from the truth. Good and evil can exist without the other. Stop divided the yin and yang and respect its "wholeness". A circle doesnt have a polar opposite, it just is as God is. I understand that may be hard for some of us. The same God that gives us life everyday, has murdered(taken) lives, destroyed people because It thought we would "touch the heavens". Good and Evil are toys that belong in the playground not the universe.

The Devil(satan) did not have a choice. Just like you, when you use all of what you have to create a solution for a problem. The solution is the will, which we are free to fufill. That doesnt mean free will. Doing what you want doesnt equal free will. Gods plan is so concrete that even a 'mistake' has 'purpose'.

In the bible he is a liar, master of deception, and all sorts of other things. But if he wasnt around I believe those characteristics could have developed on there own. Its like having a drunk for a Dad, there are so many things ready to go wrong, But there are double the amount of things you can learn from.

--I agree Satan was never appointed opposite of God. You see how this entity is given existence and dominion over matter by foolish assumptions. In essence our lack of discipline= satan. When one has discipline(hints the word disciple) he equals=the son. There are several verses that speak of 2 morning stars. If your looking for duality, try venus. Jesus and Satan are like brothers,the most high, has taught the most out of anybody from heaven, has had the greatest task appointed to them. Satan as an angel had more freedom than jesus.
I hope that helped a little because some of you have it all wrong. You sound like children that have been injected with scare tactics. When will we stop denying actual recorded history?

Originally posted by scientist
i'm confused. I thought Job was the oldest book in the bible, and therefore from the Old Testament, before there was a "Son of God." Also, the word "Devil" is nowhere in the book of Job. "Satan" in Job is translated to "adversary," which as has been stated a few times already - could very well mean the alter-ego of God, not a separate entity.

yes Job is from the OT... and I didn't think they are talking about Christ but a son of God in general like and angel... Also i doubt this is taken from the KJV since he talks about the Greek name for the devil I'd say its from an earlier translation but I'll find out what he's quoting

Peace

justice

reply to post by ...and justice for some


Well you started it off right! The Socialists/Communists/NWO nuts are in every University and you bring forth your proof from a College Professor.

The NWO want God removed from all places and all churches abolished! They cannot have slaves that yearn to be FREE, (totally not acceptable, what they require is servitude to the almighty dollar)

Everyone has their own take on God and the Devil - "The Bearer of Light"

Look at it this way, Lucifer was the bearer of light. Lights truest for in our world is Electricity, therefore electricity is Evil.
(Mennenites and Hitites - Amish that live in their own communities without electricity)

Personally, I believe we are all Gods in human form. We have the ability to do Good or Evil - a Choice between God and the Devil (notice you only have to add an O and subtract a D).

Just my .02 cents.

VDOG.45

reply to post by andy1033

I always wondered why people have never thought "Hm, if Satan's helping those evil guys, why can't he help me?".
Have you ever thought that the reason those men are in power is because they "worship Satan"? Have you ever thought that Satan is generous, and can even help you? Satan isn't prejudiced, he loves all.
PS: I'm an atheist who doesn't believe in Satan, so why should my opinion count, eh?

Originally posted by VDOG.45
reply to post by ...and justice for some

 

The NWO want God removed from all places and all churches abolished! They cannot have slaves that yearn to be FREE, (totally not acceptable, what they require is servitude to the almighty dollar)

Wait... are you saying religion sets people free? Sorry for my own thoughts, but isn't that kind of the opposite?