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Is the Devil really that bad? This could change the way you think of Christianity

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posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by scientist
 


I c. Must admit that I don't know much about the church of Satan.




posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by scientist

Originally posted by sir_chancealot
Who are the great Satanists that have started hospitals, orphanages, helped the poor, the sick, the widows, etc.? Anyone have a list?

If not, think about why not.


that's an unfair test, seeing how one of the tenants of Satanism, is that they refuse to be forced to support the weak


Ok, let's apply another test. What society, where no one is forced to "support the weak" have grown beyond being a third world country? Or, put another way, what country has become a 1st world country by ignoring "the weak"?





Satanism is a religion based on the reality that man is an animal, like all others. They choose to separate themselves from a society where natural behavior is suppressed and the strong support the weak.


By definition, they do not do charity, as it is opposite to a central idea of Satanism.


Since children are, by definition and by actual fact, "weak", how does a satanist justify having children? How do they justify NOT preying on children?



I could use the same unfair argument against Christians: How many Christians have had a fair, unbiased debate on the validity of Satanism? If not, think about why not...


The only people that can have an "unbiased debate" are people who don't give a (care) about the outcome, or the subject being debated. If you choose a side, you are automatically "biased" by the very definition of the word.

Is Satan just a "prosecutor"? Well, let's see. He is described as a "liar" and a "murderer from the beginning", a "lion that roams about seeking whom he may devour", and the "the father of lies". In addition, when the devil is finally thrown out of heaven, there is great celebration. (which, contrary to popular belief, hasn't happened yet).

Here is your task, should you choose to accept it: Name 5 good things that Satanism has brought into this world. Let's define "good things" as things which the majority of people would believe are "good". Can you even do that?

Edit because I forgot to close quotes.

[edit on 22-9-2008 by sir_chancealot]



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 12:07 PM
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Isn't satanism just doing what you think feels good or what ever you want with out helping or taking any crap from anyone?

Doesn't not have anything to do with Satan as a religious figure. just as a roll model for the left hand path?

peace

Justice



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by ...and justice for some
 


lol another concept of the Abrahamic faiths which I dont understand.

Why would god have a devil around to "test" man, when god is the one who endows a man with everything he has.

By the conventional logic, lets assume a supposedly loving god endows a man with low intellect. The man, as a result of his god given low intellect goes on to commit crime etc. Then this same god judges the man based on his "choices", when in fact those choices were bound by the limits of his endowed intellect and morality.

Doesnt sound much like a benevolent god to me...



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 12:11 PM
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I'd like to hear everyones opinion but this thread is about the Christian and Jewish devil. Muslim to i just dont know much about him....

All religions are welcome to comment but this thread is not about and has nothing to do with devil worship satanism or the left hand path...

sorry i know ive talked about it but its getting to far off subject and i'd like to know what everyone thinks...

Peace

Justice



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by 44soulslayer
 


i guess that all depends on if you believe in a complete black and white you do this this happens kinda judgment...

doesnt the bible also say that he is a jealous and vengeful God?

peace

justice



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 12:24 PM
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hmmmmmm. are you new to this thought? just a question. luciferian thought has yet to kill me or send me to hell. I implore you to think for yourself. there are no deities. so are you thinker or a follower?



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by ...and justice for some

doesnt the bible also say that he is a jealous and vengeful God?


Do you believe this? If he were jealous and vengeful, we would have been a smoking sphere long ago. I wonder exactly how God conveyed this particular message to man, that he was jealous and vengeful. Surely not a message God would send for people to emulate. Perhaps the church lost something in the translation??



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by sir_chancealot
 


please fix your post, so i know what to read, and what to reply to.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by mapsurfer_
I wonder exactly how God conveyed this particular message to man, that he was jealous and vengeful.


Check the old testament. That was the "angry" god, full of vengeance and hatred.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by mapsurfer_

Originally posted by ...and justice for some

doesnt the bible also say that he is a jealous and vengeful God?


Do you believe this? If he were jealous and vengeful, we would have been a smoking sphere long ago. I wonder exactly how God conveyed this particular message to man, that he was jealous and vengeful. Surely not a message God would send for people to emulate. Perhaps the church lost something in the translation??


You have made a mistake in logic. If he were JUST "jealous and vengeful", then that would be true. 2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. "



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by scientist

Originally posted by mapsurfer_
I wonder exactly how God conveyed this particular message to man, that he was jealous and vengeful.


Check the old testament. That was the "angry" god, full of vengeance and hatred.


And thats one of the biggest beliefs of Gnostic Christianity that the old testament and the new testament god are 2 different beings or 2 different personalities of the one God the Sophia...

I kinda like some of there beliefs that no matter what god you pray to your still getting to the same one as everybody else...

Peace

Justice



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by mapsurfer_
 


God said "Thou shal worship none before me, for I am a jealous God."

Combine that with all the killing he did in the old testament. Glassing entire cities, killing all the first borns of Egypt etc.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by sir_chancealot
What society, where no one is forced to "support the weak" have grown beyond being a third world country? Or, put another way, what country has become a 1st world country by ignoring "the weak"?


it seems you now want me to justify Satanism, or explain how it would work as a self-sustaining society. First of all, I'm not a Satanist, so I wouldn't really know where to start - but I also don't think that Satanism was created to serve as a template for a utopian society.




Since children are, by definition and by actual fact, "weak", how does a satanist justify having children? How do they justify NOT preying on children?


This is easy to answer. You can check all of the "rules" of Satanism here:

www.churchofsatan.com...
www.churchofsatan.com...
www.churchofsatan.com...

This is from "The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth:"



9. Do not harm little children.




The only people that can have an "unbiased debate" are people who don't give a (care) about the outcome, or the subject being debated. If you choose a side, you are automatically "biased" by the very definition of the word.


correct. So for example, I see Satanism and Christianity as both being ridiculous groups of people that need others to justify their own actions. I see myself as unbiased on this account, as I couldn't care less about either group - other than finding them both equally interesting.



Is Satan just a "prosecutor"? Well, let's see. He is described as a "liar" and a "murderer from the beginning", a "lion that roams about seeking whom he may devour", and the "the father of lies". In addition, when the devil is finally thrown out of heaven, there is great celebration. (which, contrary to popular belief, hasn't happened yet).


Could you please provided sources to this? I am unaware of "Satan" being called by name and directly associated with being a murderer or liar. As it has been said before in this thread - Satan is simply "adversary." He does not act independent of God. In fact, the only actions "Satan" ever makes, seem to be natural responses to the things God does. i.e. "Satan" is the other part of the Duality that God represents.



Here is your task, should you choose to accept it: Name 5 good things that Satanism has brought into this world. Let's define "good things" as things which the majority of people would believe are "good". Can you even do that?


Again, you seem to be putting me in the position to defend Satanism. You are mistaken. The difference is that I'm not letting some bias get in the way of rational thought. If you want to find the virtues of Satanism, just check out their website. It's not like it's hard to do:



1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!

2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!

5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!

7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 01:09 PM
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I may just be my belief only, but I think that Satan runs the Christian religion. Unfortunately they haven't figured it out yet.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by scientist
 



Great post scientist.... i dont know a whole lot about it so thanks for the info

i mean i know that they dont worship the devil but i dont know the details so thanks for clearing it up..

peace

Justice



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 01:12 PM
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I think it all works out very simply if Satan is viewed as man's animal nature rather than an outsider entity or force. We lie to ourselves to justify taking advantage of others. This also explains why Satan can't seem to be defeated but yet already is. It is like looking in the mirror and believing it to be someone else. Get thee behind me, indeed.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by ...and justice for some
thats one of the biggest beliefs of Gnostic Christianity that the old testament and the new testament god are 2 different beings or 2 different personalities of the one God the Sophia...


That's a bit of a misunderstanding. Sophia is not exactly "the one God." She is a feminine quality of "God," but also the lowest emanation. The other main tenant of Gnosticism, is that people aren't flawed, trying to become perfect like God - but rather that people are inherently flawed, as God (or rather the demiurge) is flawed, and created us in his flawed image (or rather tricked himself into believing he created us).

But I digress...



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 01:44 PM
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I'm not a hardcore bible thumper, but I did attend Sunday School and church when I was a kid and early teen.

One of the things I learned was that in the 'end of days', Satan would be presented to people as 'good' and the Trinity would be 'bad'.

We just may be approaching the 'end of days' if you believe Bible Prophecy.

[edit on 22-9-2008 by CreeWolf]



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by CreeWolf
I'm not a hardcore bible thumper, but I did attend Sunday School and church when I was a kid and early teen.


we call those bible-thumpees.


It's where they try to push in as much propaganda as they can while your skull is still relatively soft. I was asked not to come back to Sunday School after I tried asking about hell. I believe I was about 8-9 years old, when I mentioned that hell wouldn't be all that bad, because even if you were on fire, you would probably get used to it after a while. I was being serious - not making a joke. Apparently, the teacher was pretty serious too. So serious, that it marked the conclusion of my Biblical/Scholastic endeavors for quite some time.




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