Police arrest UK woman for "offensive" child's toy in window

I tell you what, and this is an offer to all of you who thinks that the gollywog is a harmless toy, get yourself a gollywog costume and get down to London.

March through the streets, in a peaceful manner, and knock on the doors of parliament and stake your claim for the gollywog doll to be admired as a symbol of love, peace and respect (or indeed, ignored as a harmless toy).

Having got off the bus, I wonder how many steps you will actually take before the people let you know exactly how they feel about you, your ideas and your gollywogs?!

Power to the people!!

[edit on 23/9/2008 by skibtz]

reply to post by skibtz


Your missing an important point out here with this comment.

A swastika is a Hindu decoration which Hitler used as the emblem for the Nazi party The swastika for that reason now is seen as a sign of hate and racism because of the Nazi's it is now controversial in the west.

The gollywog doll is not a symbol of racism, hate etc its a doll plain and simple if it had a Nazi emblem on it that would be a different story. but like ive said here time and time again its only when people make an issue it becomes racist.

before the Nazi party used the swastika it was a just a decoration but then the Nazi party used it and committed horrible acts which made the swastika what it is today, exactly the same could be done with the gollywog if a racist party used it as a emblem, or some stupid goody goody keeps linking it to racism which is as already been tried,

As for walking down the street with a gollywog in London, what do you expect when the gollywog as been turned into a racist issue by the stupid PC brigade.

Originally posted by u4riaYour missing an important point out here with this comment.

Erm...how would you know what point I am missing when I havent even made mine yet?

A swastika is a Hindu decoration which Hitler used as the emblem for the Nazi party The swastika for that reason now is seen as a sign of hate and racism because of the Nazi's it is now controversial in the west.

Thanks for the history lesson but I already know this.

The gollywog doll is not a symbol of racism, hate etc its a doll plain and simple

That very statement says it all really.

EDIT: And so by your logic you could then argue that the swaztika is just a picture, plain and simple!

How about you extend your history lesson to the gollywog and its roots.

Both the swaztika and the gollywogg are symbols of racism and hate and both are quite rightly recognised as so by the majority of the civilised world.

It is also interesting to note that the swaztika symobl, just like the gollywogg, is not banned.

However, if you use it in such a way that could be construed as racist then expect to face the consequences.

We could sit here arguing all day but it comes down to one simple fact. You believe that the gollywog is nothing but a toy and I believe it to be a symbol of racism and hate.

How about a challenge, you create a post arguing why you believe the golliwogg to be a symbol of racism and hate, adding some facts and links.

I will then create a post to the contrary of my beliefs arguing the case as to why the golliwogg is not a symbol of racism and hate and should be welcomed by modern society.

Let's see if we can actually get something from all of this

[edit on 23/9/2008 by skibtz]

I searched the history online, and came across this snippet. It seems it wasn't a slur against just dark-skinned people, but to whites, whose skin appeared dark.

Personally, I see the little doll, as cute, and I am not racist. My neighbour has two beautiful little girls from dark-skinned fathers. Their skin is only dark due to the fact that they carry more pigmentation in their genes.

As far as, I am concerned, we are all the same, regardless of colour, race, background, culture.

One of my best friends growing up was black, and his name was Casey. I still think of him to this day and wonder what he ended up doing with his life. I was close friends with his sister. I didn't see skin-colour, I saw the people.

I think that being racist is being ignorant, but to blame a doll, for man's inhumanity to man is wrong. I remember the Golly from when I was a child, and no way did it make me think negatively of my friend Casey and his sister. I never associated it with race, it was just a doll.

As a matter of fact, his sister had a black raggedy-ann doll, and to me the Golly and her doll were the same. As I said, her and her brother were black and my best mates. Their parents were good friends of my parents.

There isn't a day that goes by, where Casey springs to mind, along with his sister. He protected me like a brother would a sister.

I am against racism, but find the doll, just a doll.





Golliwog is a racial slur in Germany, England, Ireland, Greece, and Australia. Interestingly, it is sometimes applied to dark-skinned Whites, as well as brown-skinned persons. Golliwog is also a common name for black pets, especially dogs, in European countries -- much as 'n-word' was once popular as a pet name. Golliwog was also the original name of the rock band Credence Clearwater Revival. They sometimes performed the song "Brown-Eyed Girl" (not the Van Morrison tune), dressed in white afros. This is not to suggest that they were racists, only to show that golliwogs were a part -- albeit, a small one -- in American culture.21It doesn't refer to colour only

I use to listen to CCR when I was growing up. I didn't even know their original name had been Golliwog, before they changed it.

I don't fully understand the story behind the 'dark minstrels' as it happened before my time, but the negative connations afforded the doll was down to adults, not children. It became racially marred through the ignorance of adults and not children.

So, if I went out and bought a black raggedy-ann doll to remember my friend's sister, would that make me racist? I think not, as it would be a reminder of her. I was closer to Casey, as we were closer in age, and his sister was younger than me. I remember her, but not her name, and I remember her doll.

I often imagine that Casey went on to either join the military like his dad, got into law, or some other brilliant career. He was clever, and we use to sit together in class. He protected me from the class bully, who lived on the other side of me at the base.



[edit on 23/9/08 by rachel07]

reply to post by u4ria


The swastika was also a design used frequently by American Indians in artwork. During WWII the tribes that used it vowed not to use it anymore after the Nazi's hijacked its meaning.

I don't agree with this. They should have taken it back. If someone is still offended, then they are making assumptions. Making assumptions is a lot of what is wrong these days.

I suppose Raggedy Ann and Andy dolls would be making fun of white people? No, you don't hear that. Reason? Because white people don't go around being offended at every little thing that looks like a caricature of them.

I'm 99% sure that the display of these figures isn't meant to be offensive. These days, in America at least, everyone is considered equal by law. It is only when one peoples tries to elevate itself above the rest do these problems occur. If you are a minority and you feel inferior, that is YOUR problem.

There ARE differences between the various races. Face that fact! I think its ridiculous that we have to have "PC Police" to try to suppress the differences.

Quit "baiting" other races, quit blaming your "color" when you are denied a job, quit checking the affirmative action boxes on your applications for services, quit seperating yourselves from other races into neighborhoods, quit trying to take over the world, but most importantly:

Learn to Laugh at Yourselves!

[edit on 23-9-2008 by CreeWolf]

I am of Jewish descent, and the only time I am offended by the Swastika, is when it is used inappropriately, like when Prince Harry wore it as part of a Nazi costume.

However, the original context of the Swastika means birth, life, death, and rebirth. In it's original context it is a beautiful symbol, to which I can connect, but when it is used inapporpriately like the Nazi's used it, it does cause offense.

In other words, the symbol itself is not offensive, but the way it is used, can be, if used in a way to demeanor another.

The Golly, used as a doll, is just a doll, and a symbol, but when it is used in a context of negativity, I can understand how people can be offended.

The same as the cross, right-side up it symbols Christ's sacrifice for man, but when it is hung upside-down, it is offensive and profane.

The cross itself isn't offensive, but it's use is. If it is used for positive reinforcement it is a good thing, but it has been known to be used for negative reinforcement by the likes of the KKK. However, the cross in and of itself, is a cross.

The use of symbolism can be either negative, or positive. If an object is used to offend, then yes, it must be addressed. However, if it is not used in an offensive manner, it should be seen for what it is.

Like how I see the Swastika. I see it on neo-nazi's, it offends me, but when I see it, as it is meant to be, it is acceptable.

However, if you use it in such a way that could be construed as racist then expect to face the consequences.

there you go if its used as a doll its not racist but the moment some one waves it about shouting racist slurs it is then racist, exactly my point

To quote from wikipedia regarding the golliwog doll

The "Golliwogg" (later "Golliwog") is a rag doll-like, children's literary character created by Florence Kate Upton in the late 19th century.

The Golliwog began life as a story book character created by Florence Kate Upton. Upton was born in 1873 in Flushing, New York, to English parents who had emigrated to the United States in 1870. She was the second of four children. When Upton was fourteen, her father died and, shortly thereafter, the family returned to England.

The Golliwogg was inspired by a black face minstrel doll Upton had as a child in America. At one point it was very popular in Europe and as a result has become a collector's item. However, the image of the doll has become the subject of heated debate. One aspect of the debate in its favor argues that it should be preserved and passed on as a cherished cultural artifact and childhood tradition, while opponents argue it should be retired as a relic of an earlier time when racism against black people was blatant.

it says it was inspired by the minstrel doll she had seen has a child and then she used it in art work for a book which then led to it being used on the jam jars. she didn't use it to promote racism and neither did Robertson's jam it was just a character in a book and a character on a jam jar. But some one had to make a point of labeling it racist just like what happens everyday someone See's something they don't like or link it to racism and it becomes racist its a different story if somebody designs something and makes something that is meant to be racist.

it started out as just a doll just like the swastika started out as a Hindu emblem after people picked the swastika up and used it as a racist emblem and committed acts of murder over race making the swastika into sign that is entwined in those acts, i don't see anybody using the golliwogg in the same fashion...

im debating the fact here about the golliwogg doll i have no intentions of starting a post up about how the golliwogg is not or is racist im not getting into it the same old arguments of race and hate has it always bounces back twisted it just turns into a constant argument going no where.

i believe it isn't racist and you believe it is i have no problems with you believing its racist and i couldn't care any less if you think im a racist because i wont go along with your reasoning, im not racist and i make no difference between people regardless of there skin color, disabilities, accent ect were all human and as for the doll so what if its black its just a doll.

one point is if we took all the objects, pictures, video that's considered racist by one person or the next then we would have people complaining where cutting race's out of everyday life then that would probably turn racist.

Originally posted by u4ria
im debating the fact here about the golliwogg doll i have no intentions of starting a post up about how the golliwogg is not or is racist

Erm...but was that not the point of the news article, the point of the OP and the point we have been debating for the past few days!

Anyway...

Thanks for the Wiki info....check this link.

The Golliwog was created during a racist era. He was drawn as a caricature of a minstrel -- which itself represented a demeaning image of Blacks. There is racial stereotyping of Black people in Florence Upton's books, including The Adventures of Two Dutch Dolls -- such as the Black minstrel playing a banjo on page 45. It appears that the Golliwog was another expression of Upton's racial insensitivity. Certainly later Golliwogs often reflected negative beliefs about Blacks -- thieves, miscreants, incompetents. There is little doubt that the words associated with Golliwog -- Golly, Golli, Wog, and Golliwog, itself -- are often used as racial slurs. Finally, the resurgence of interest in the Golliwog is not found primarily among children, but instead is found among adults, some nostalgic, others with financial interests.

and...

Gerry German, of the Working Group Against Racism in Children's Resources, was quoted in The Voice, a Black newspaper, as saying: "I find it appalling that any organization in this day and age can produce anything which would commemorate the golliwog. It is an offensive caricature of Black people."

This is too stressing...im gonna go check some aliens and ufo posts

[edit on 23/9/2008 by skibtz]

It was created during a racist era so was a lot of things that are not deemed racist, it was also shown holding a banjo so what its a Banjo and musical instrument.

Certainly later Golliwogs often reflected negative beliefs about Blacks -- thieves, miscreants, incompetents. There is little doubt that the words associated with Golliwog -- Golly, Golli, Wog, and Golliwog, itself -- are often used as racial slurs. Finally, the resurgence of interest in the Golliwog is not found primarily among children, but instead is found among adults, some nostalgic, others with financial interests.

Later golliwogs where used in a negative way, golly and wog where used as racial slurs by people that where racist but not everyone does use them in that context.

Like Golly can be used to as a exclamation of surprise which is not racist unless some idiot makes the link to race, then it goes on to say the resurgence of interest in the golliwog is mainly adults for nostalgic reasons, as for the financial interests.. as long as its not in a racist way whats the problem its just like rachel07 said about about the cross being used in positive and negative light, if its sold as a cross i don't see the problem if its sold on a chain upside down then there can be a problem same with the golliwogg if it sold as a plain doll whats the problem ? its another mater if its sold as a racist item.

Gerry German, of the Working Group Against Racism in Children's Resources, was quoted in The Voice, a Black newspaper, as saying: "I find it appalling that any organization in this day and age can produce anything which would commemorate the golliwog. It is an offensive caricature of Black people."

So because Gerry German says its offensive to black people every one should follow the line and go along with it, its just his opinion like you have your opinion and i have mine.

you find this stressing i certainly don't its a debate with you having your opinion and i have mine. the only reason i can see you find it stressing is because people wont agree with you and your reasoning, this site is just a site and that thing you sit in front of is a PC don't get stressed out because people argue against you, go out and take a walk around and you will notice everybody busying around have there own lives and beliefs regardless of race to live and probably don't let these type of things effect them.

in response to creewolf

im not arguing against what you are saying in fact its also exactly the way i look at it.

as for laughing at myself i make fun of myself all the time, and if somebody wants to make fun of me im all for it unless of course its in a really negative way

[edit on 23-9-2008 by u4ria]

reply to post by u4ria


You quote Wiki and I quote Gerry.

What's your problem with Gerry?

Is there something you dont like about him?

Originally posted by skibtz
reply to post by u4ria

 

You quote Wiki and I quote Gerry.

What's your problem with Gerry?

Is there something you don't like about him?

i have no problem with Gerry

i have no problem with Gerry and neither do i dislike him.

as for WGARCR and educating children against racism im all for it because what a child is taught during childhood shapes there future adult life and if it stops a child growing up and becoming racist i find that positive

[edit on 23-9-2008 by u4ria]

Originally posted by u4riadon't get stressed out because people argue against you

I am not but thank you for caring (and making incorrect assumptions).

Racism is a serious crime with victims.

You think we should ignore it - I say we should confront it.

If racism so non-plus and unworthy of attention then why are you still here fighting for the right for people to be racist?

Originally posted by skibtz

Originally posted by u4riadon't get stressed out because people argue against you

I am not but thank you for caring (and making incorrect assumptions).

Racism is a serious crime with victims.

You think we should ignore it - I say we should confront it.

If racism so non-plus and unworthy of attention then why are you still here fighting for the right for people to be racist?

i never said Racism isn't a serious crime without victims

and also im not fighting for people to have the right to racist, im saying people shouldn't have to get rid of a golliwog doll because its offensive to certain people, but if that person is using to enforce there racism well then its another mater.

Originally posted by u4riaim not fighting for people to have the right to racist

Brillliant u4ria....

im saying people shouldn't have to get rid of a golliwog doll because its offensive to certain people

Oh!

Damn. For a minute there I thought you had it.

You see u4ria, in the country that you reside, the law is for everyone not just those who racially offend and not just 'certain .

Legally you can put a gollywog in a window. Legally, I can make a complaint against you for doing so.

If you do not like the laws here my friend then leave or change them.

Like I said earlier, get a bunch of your mates to dress up as gollywogs and march upon the houses of parliament.

[edit on 23/9/2008 by skibtz]

Originally posted by _Volt_

Originally posted by Interestinggg
To arrest the women is stupidity.
Ask her to take it down sure but arrest her?
That's stupid.
Not to mention her little kid put it in the window and had no clue what it would cause.
And when the woman saw it she took it down anyway.
Of course she will get off in court and she should sue them after she does.
For them to call her that long afterward, tell her to come to the police station, then arrest her, shows these specific police to be unprofessional.
To take her DNA and Fingerprints for this is an absurd waste of resources.

Is taking her fingerprints and DNA really a waste of resources, for all you know she might not have been registered on the various databases and now she is and now she can be kept track of.

What???????????????????????????????????????????????????

This is a bloody housewife, why the hell should she be registered on any databases anyway???????????

You should be embarrassed and ashamed about that comment, people like you are eroding what little civil liberties we have left in the UK

[edit on 23-9-2008 by expatwhite]

Originally posted by expatwhiteThis is a bloody housewife, why the hell should she be registered on any databases anyway?

And Harold Shipman was just a doctor!

Why the feck would anyone give a shot about a DNA database anyway?

What the feck will they do with it that is so detrimental?

You should be embarrassed and ashamed about that comment, people like you are eroding what little civil liberties we have left in the UK

As well as apathy and people not voting in this country.

What have you done recently to stand up to Big Brother UK?

Just asking, for all I know you could be fresh off a protest or three

[edit on 23/9/2008 by skibtz]

Originally posted by expatwhite
You should be embarrassed and ashamed about that comment, people like you are eroding what little civil liberties we have left in the UK

Civil liberties? Who needs civil liberties? Who needs rational argument or specific laws? If anyone complains just accuse them of being a racist and 95% will back down and go hide under a rock out of shame.

It apparently works most of the time.

Originally posted by skibtz

Originally posted by u4riaim not fighting for people to have the right to racist

Brillliant u4ria....

im saying people shouldn't have to get rid of a golliwog doll because its offensive to certain people

Oh!

Damn. For a minute there I thought you had it.

You see u4ria, in the country that you reside, the law is for everyone not just those who racially offend and not just 'certain .

Legally you can put a gollywog in a window. Legally, I can make a complaint against you for doing so.

If you do not like the laws here my friend then leave or change them.

Like I said earlier, get a bunch of your mates to dress up as gollywogs and march upon the houses of parliament.

[edit on 23/9/2008 by skibtz]

So because some one owns a golliwog there a racist ?

where did i say i don't like the laws here in the UK ?

i might disagree with certain laws but that's because there either outdated or because the clash with other laws which i apparently the case these days.

in this case a golliwog was put in a window and somebody took offence to it for what ever reason but at the end of the day if it was put there so what ? the doll is not being racist its the person that put it there that might or might not be the racist, what should have happened is the police should have asked her was it there promote racism if not ok but could you please remove it as some one has found it offensive if then the lady had said no the police could have taken it away and then she could have fought her case in court for the right to place it in the window if she then failed she should keep it out of the window because the LAW as told her too, but there should be no reason why she cant own it, but then on the other side of the coin why should somebody who deems it racist have there own belief that it racist icon/emblem upheld and made the lady remove it ?

you see a golliwog is not illegal to own nor is it illegal to place in a window if no racist element is involved so it should be allowed to stay in the window if its got racist signs placed in the window then yes it should be deemed racist.

as for if i dont agree with the law leave the country i was born in why should i ?

I am going to quote myself from a few pages ago, because we have some awfully ignorant people on this thread.



"Let me just make this clear now, because i am a little sick of the twisting and deflecting and general BS on this thread.

If you support this woman or think there is nothing wrong with a Golliwog doll, you ARE racist... maybe not directly, but you are aiding and abetting it.

If you don't know that a golliwog is perceived as and is recognized as racist...then EDUCATE yourselves."


Now if you haven't educated yourselves, SKIBTZ left a good link to do so.
Please read it.

www.ferris.edu...


Just because people didn't see them as racist at the time, and it was generally allowed to make fun of, be derogatory towards and generally be racist to anyone who was not white...does NOT make it ok.....EVER.

I am not going to get back in to this thread again because the site is about denying ignorance, not arguing with ignorants!!

Originally posted by blupblup
I am not going to get back in to this thread again because the site is about denying ignorance, not arguing with ignorants!!

I hope this time you mean it. You ran out of rational arguments a while ago, and calling other posters names is really not appropriate, but in your world that is okay right? If people don't agree with your oh so pc views you are within your rights to call them a variety of nasty names.

Rule #1 Equal rights for all. (Just as long as everyone realizes some people are more equal than others.)

Rule #2 Being offensive to others is a crime, whether it is intentional or not. (However if you disagree with the opinions of others then you can be as offensive and insulting as you like because "those" people deserve it.)

[edit on 23-9-2008 by Sonya610]