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Police arrest UK woman for "offensive" child's toy in window

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posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by blupblup
 


It isnt society's place to tell an individual what is or isnt morally acceptable.

Morality derives only from internal introspection, not external coercion.

As I've said, even if this doll is a racist symbol- hell, even if she had been flying a nazi flag or a burning cross in her window then thats her right to do so within the confines of her own home.




posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by 44soulslayer
 


Ridiculous....

So if she was killing cats in her own home, that's ok?

Or, letting her kids drink vodka all day, that's ok?


I'm not saying it is the same thing at all, so please do not say i'm likening them.

But by your reasoning, she can do ANYTHING she wants, irregardless of law, in here own home.



I would be all for governing ourselves but it just isn't feasable.

It is absolutely the responsibilty of the gov. to set out guidelines of what is and isn't acceptable.
Who would otherwise??

[edit on 24/9/08 by blupblup]



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by blupblup
 


Pretty moronic comparison. Sorry for being blunt, but it really is.

Prosecuting her for being a racist in her own home is tantamount to prosecuting her for thoughtcrime.

Needless to say if she harms anyone or anything else within her own home, then she can be prosecuted.

Frankly this is such an easily spotted distinction I fail to see why you even bothered posting your last comment.



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by 44soulslayer
reply to post by blupblup
 


It isnt society's place to tell an individual what is or isnt morally acceptable.




Because of that gem!!


So do tell me whose job it is then please?



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 11:00 AM
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I'm only suprised that the police didn't do a "stop and search" on the Golliwog and arrest him instead. Given that it's British Police we are talking about!!



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by blupblup
 


Moral obligations and civic obligations are two entirely different things.

Moral obligations are determined by each person. If I deem it immoral to partake in drugs, then I dont partake in drugs. It shouldnt be the place of the government to enact laws, which by phyiscal force or implied force, prevent me from doing drugs.

Or more relevant: It should not be the place of government to tell people what to think. If people want to hold racist views, then they should be allowed to do so within their own home.

Civic obligations are things like: dont murder others, dont steal, dont rape etc.

Within their own home, people should be able to do anything they want so long as it doesnt interfere with the natural rights of other people.

Sorry for being rude, I thought this was all really obvious?



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by 44soulslayer
reply to post by blupblup
 


Moral obligations and civic obligations are two entirely different things.




In essence i agree with what you're saying, i really do.

I am a pretty liberal person and believe people should be able to choose certain things they wish to do.

Drugs and other things fair enough.


But i totally disagree on racism

It is not OK if somebody wants to be racist, whether it's in their own home or wherever...it is the job of any decent human being or government or society in general to stamp out racism and any other discriminatory ISM there is.


As i said, i am aware of the difference between rape, racism and whatever else, and i also said my other examples were not to be likened to what this woman did, but in your eyes.... it is her home, therefore her rules



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 11:20 AM
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reply to post by blupblup
 


The reason I dont believe in moral stamping is quite clear in my mind. If you see my signature, you'll see why.

I dont think it is possible to strong arm a person into believing what you believe. I dont think it is even moral to do so.

I dislike the BNP and all those other two-bit racists but at the same time I realise that it is their right to believe as they wish. Perhaps they may even be right!

Who is society to tell me how to think, and who is the government to tell me how to think?

What you are proposing is a curb not only on freedom of speech but on freedom of thought.

At one point the Nazi government of Germany decided that they must indocrinate children against the great evil of Jews... they decided that it was immoral for the average man to think that Jews were normal people. So they acted swiftly and brutally to ensure that the thoughts of the masses were controlled.

Nothing good has ever come of government mandated morality. Ever.



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 11:31 AM
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reply to post by 44soulslayer
 


Again, generally i agree with your points...very well made indeed.

But i have to say that whether it's the government or fellow man telling you that racism is wrong....they are right, it IS wrong.


If there were no racism, then we wouldn't have much of the chaos going on around the world right now, granted...religion is a massive part of it as well.
I just absolutely despise racism and racists, never been taught that way or had any racist attacks myself, so it's not from experience.... just morality and conscience have shaped me that way.

To think something is one thing, acting on it is another.
You could think all day about killing minorities or how much you hate other races and nobody would know or care.

But when you start displaying racist stuff for people to see, or start spouting racist thoughts, then it becomes a problem and becomes an issue.


And your Nazi comparison is as moronic as my earlier one.
they did it out of hate and racism.

If a government makes laws (which they have) forbidding people to discriminate and persecute people based on their race, then that is a good thing...

whether you're a free thinker or not....



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by Bubblegum
As someone who is mixed (Blk and white) I read through your posts and felt quite upset re this ongoing debate re the gollywog. As a child I had one and when people mentioned that it was racist I didn't understand why, as I have never met a black person like this!...I have seen people like this - but usually they were wearing shoe polish on their faces!....I understand the debate and can totally see where people are coming from, but to me it represents a happy 'doll'!!! Thats what it is and what its true representation is - a doll who was very jolly and always on hand to help others!....Now if thats racist...the I think politically correctness has gone completly mad and the world has lost the plot!...Also I like the idea re the dude going down to london with the golly outfit on...I am sure you would get mixed reviews!...but I'd def have a smile on my face of happy memories!

ps Oh and just for the record - I got a golly for my birthday a few years ago and he sits proud as punch on my bed and although some of my black friends don't like him, I will fight for the golly as long as I live!!! x
You heretic Bubblegum!Only joking
I don't think anyone will notice your comment as they are too busy arguing.However,lay off us housewives !What do you think we are some kind of sub-species?That's as bad as racial profiling and may I remind you of the words of the great Greek philosopher Kebabulus"What we make invisible,we turn into the most dangerous,and thus it may come in the night and kick us up the jaxy'



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 11:40 AM
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" "Police received a report that an item deemed to be offensive was placed in the window of a house on Borrowdale Road."

I've seen some people who were pretty offensive to look at, should they be put away too?
..


I find these complaints offensive, what's to be done about that?
..


What a load of rubbish....
..


The entire planet is going bonkers...



[edit on 24-9-2008 by toasted]



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by toasted
 


Have you only just noticed or does your pseudonym reveal alot more about yourself then you want us to know?Golly is on trial right now for crimes against political correctness and it's right to exist at all.



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by 44soulslayer


Im not sure sure that something on display in your front window is is legally classified as the confines of your own home in that case. I'm probably wrong though


In some areas of the UK you even have to get permission to do things like put up satellite dishes, replace roof tiles or put a shed up! (I have to agree THAT does piss me off!)


Moral obligations are determined by each person. If I deem it immoral to partake in drugs, then I dont partake in drugs. It shouldnt be the place of the government to enact laws, which by phyiscal force or implied force, prevent me from doing drugs.


Are you saying that it should be legal for me to take coc aine in my front room if I want to?


[edit on 24/9/2008 by skibtz]



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 01:04 PM
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reply to post by blupblup
 


I guess this once again comes down to moral absolutism vs moral relativism. Im of the second school and always shall be.

I am of the opinion that racism is not correct, but who is to say that my opinion is the only correct one? Perhaps the racists are correct... who knows?

To skibtz : Yes, taking coc aine affects nobody but you. Therefore if you want to do coke in your front room, you should be able to. (And put up satellite dishes!).



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by 44soulslayer
 


I agree that racism is bad.I had my own timely reminder of this just recently.Me and hubby went blackberrying from the bushes that run alongside the canal where I live.We were riding our bikes along when some drunken dopes went past on a hired canal boat jeering and wolfwhistling(don't get excited,I'm not that hot ,they were drunk remember)Anyhow we cycled past them but we had to stop to pick berries and they came chugging down the river towards us.I told my hubs to ignore them in case they decided to open their mouths again.Oh yeah they did and I quote ;

"Blackberrying!Where I come from that's burying a n****"

Well ,you catch my drift.I was really shocked.I did'nt think people like this really existed anymore.Niave little me.It was impractical to remonstate with them and getting into a fight on a canal boat is'nt wise so we just ignored them as they(agonzingly )drifted past ,slowly.



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by Sonya610
 


But depictions of Jesus and Santa Claus as blacks is OK?
give me a break!



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by 44soulslayer
 


well, I'm a little claustrophobic so i tend not to put myself into boxes

I like both ideals honestly, i tend to take a little bit from many schools of thought and systems.

But to be fair and answer your point, i DO believe there are certain issues that should not be accepted or up for debate, so the former i guess...

Like for instance judging a person solely on the colour of their skin or the country they're from, Big no-no for me.
I would take the time and evaluate each person on their own merit and do not lump people together.

Obviously certain nations/races are "known" for certain things, Brits: for their stiff upper lip, Americans: for their pride and nationalism, Australians: for their humour and laid back nature.... Etc. Etc...right or wrong, people do judge.

I tend not to, i treat every person as an individual and try and not let sex,race,age or whatever come into it.

To be honest, It's been a pleasure discussing and debating with you, a breath of fresh air in fact, you actually had something to say.

Take it easy

Blup



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by skibtz
reply to post by Bubblegum
 


What is the significance of you being mixed race?



Re your comment - the point was just that there were two different parents - black and white - who had different backgrounds of growing up etc....positive and negative - yet despite that, they did not see the issue of the golly been racist. Like everything its about perception.... just mentioned the 'mixed' bit as the racism card and gollys seem to be going hand in hand.

I also had a white baby doll and a black baby doll as a child....racism? or just understanding equality as I was growing up?...Also as someone mixed I have had it from both sides, too black to be white and too white to be black. So all the more reason that maybe I love the golly so much as its stuck in the middle of a debate that will always be there due to perceptions and opinions.

The N word you referred to is Nigger and even that term itself is under scrutiny - some people think its derogatory, others are 'reclaiming' it, others will say its a tribe in africa and others will go back as saying its an egyptian term for God (with a tweek of spelling)....the fact is its all about perception. Things change and get used for good and bad things depending on what message is to be portrayed. As we have seen in these posts even interpretations, opinions and resources used have caused misunderstandings or rattled a few brain cells or have been used as devils advocate....its a debate that may not be resolved my friends! Until then love to my golly, an iconic figure in an ever changing world of craziness - the paradox continues xx



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 06:08 PM
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The dude in my local charity shop doesn't know how lucky he is then seeing as he is brazenly flaunting a book on 'gollitoys' in his shop window!

I was gonna buy it for my bro seeing as he used to have one as a kid that he used to take everywhere with him. Lucky I didn't; it was probably a trap!



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by Wolfie_UK
 


I visit England at least once each year, twice if I can afford it, each visit lasting two weeks to one month.

I am seriously considering changing my vacation plans because of this idiocy. As I see it, a visitor will unknowingly violate the law/offend someone and end up with a conviction in Enland, and, that in the US, at the company I work for at least, is professional suicide.

The solution? We here in the US revolted against Britian, as did the Indians. Perhps it's time for the British to revolt against the government of Britian.




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