Police arrest UK woman for "offensive" child's toy in window

reply to post by Sonya610


I did mean it, but know your arrogance has made me think a little.
What arguments have i run out of?

Everything you have said or tried to say in defense has been thoroughly quashed...

What names have i called posters...please tell me?

Also, if it walks like a duck and quacks???

I do not have more rights than anybody, i have not said that... but i have the right to defend anyone i like or any race, religion, sex or whatever from intolerance and ignorance.

That is MY RIGHT.

You can have racist views and you can have a golliwog if you like, that is your RIGHT.

I am not PC either, just a decent, moral person who treats everyone equally and does not look down on somebody because of their skin colour.

If somebody is racist, they deserve anything they get in the way of verbal insults and alike.

So come on, what decent argument do you have for me?
Also, i read your posts thoroughly, please do me the same courtesy... i believe if you had read the links and educated yourself on why the golly is racist, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

reply to post by skibtz


I do what i can to stand up to Big Brother as i and many of my friends spent many saturdays having our time wasted by pc plod getting section 60d for nothing. Several times we have even been refused entry into a town and just pushed back onto a train heading back to where we set off from. We no longer even have freedom of travel in the UK but i suppose unless you experience it you wont understand how bloody annoying it can be

I am annoyed that someone thought it was apt for a housewife to be kept track of (why?) and to compare her to shipman is just inane, sorry

I will end up chucking my toys out of the pram here so i am off to cool down elsewhere

TBH I think ive stated my case.

I think the crux of the issue is whether or not:

a. you consider a golliwog offensive

b. you consider it a just cause of police force to arrest a woman for displaying a disputed item in her window

In my opinion a golliwog is not inherently racist, it depends on how it is interpreted. If I displayed a swastika in my window (I sometimes do during diwali) it doesnt automatically make me racist (it makes me hindu ).

This thread is just descending into mindless argument instead of debate so Im going to bow out unless someone would like to offer any constructed opposition.

reply to post by 44soulslayer



I think you are right, and although i did address your insulting comments to me some pages back, you did not respond...so?

I agree with your two points.


I do not agree on the swastika thing.. this was an adopted symbol and has been around for thousands of years.
And only when the nazis used it, it became racist.


The golliwog was made and designed in a time when people thought (and acted like) blacks and other minorities were 2nd/3rd class citizens or not citizens at all.

The only reason the thread has descended into this, is because people (not you) do not know their facts and/or the history of this particular doll.


Thanks.

reply to post by blupblup


The reason I didnt respond is that I realised it was off-topic.

Plus, I pretty much stated my case. I dont see any point in re-iterating it.

Thanks for the civil response though

Originally posted by expatwhite
I do what i can to stand up to Big Brother as i and many of my friends spent many saturdays having our time wasted by pc plod getting section 60d for nothing. Several times we have even been refused entry into a town and just pushed back onto a train heading back to where we set off from.

We no longer even have freedom of travel in the UK but i suppose unless you experience it you wont understand how bloody annoying it can be

I've not experienced that but I understand why you would be fecked off - that is a little OTT from the plod. Refused entry in to a town?!!!

I am annoyed that someone thought it was apt for a housewife to be kept track of (why?) and to compare her to shipman is just inane, sorry

No need to apologise, our senses of humour are obviously a tad apart and maybe I should have added an extra lol or two - it was a joke after all.

I will end up chucking my toys out of the pram here so i am off to cool down elsewhere

Dont fret - were all friends here really

[edit on 23/9/2008 by skibtz]

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
In my opinion a golliwog is not inherently racist, it depends on how it is interpreted. If I displayed a swastika in my window (I sometimes do during diwali) it doesnt automatically make me racist (it makes me hindu

).

Cool. I think that there is a difference between the two, that being their history.

The swastika was a positive image hijacked for a negative purpose. To continue using the symbol is perfecty fine (for non-nazi purposes).

The gollywog is, IMO, a negative image used for, IMO, negative purposes.

reply to post by skibtz


But what was once a peaceful symbol got hijacked by racism. Yet we give the symbol itself the benefit of doubt.

Should we not do the same to a golliwog? Lets assume for a moment that your interpretation is correct, and that a gollywog was a deeply entrenched symbol of racist views, based upon hyper accentuation of percieved black features.

What was once (allegedly) a symbol of racism, has now been appropriated as a meaningless childs toy. Unless of course, you think that children who are given golliwogs are making a choice by owning a racist item?

More importantly how can litigation be used to determine whether or not the woman had racist intentions by her mere possession of a golliwog?

reply to post by 44soulslayer


Although not directed at me, i don't see your point in this comment?

"Unless of course, you think that children who are given golliwogs are making a choice by owning a racist item?"


How would the child be making this choice if they are "given" the doll??


Also, this was not the first incident this woman and the offended neighbour have been involved in.

Originally posted by blupblup
What names have i called posters...please tell me?

Originally posted by blupblup
I am going to quote myself from a few pages ago, because we have some awfully ignorant people on this thread.

I am not going to get back in to this thread again because the site is about denying ignorance, not arguing with ignorants!!

Okay, so in your world making those comments about other posters is NOT an insult? And yes saying other posters are "ignorants" is in my mind name calling (next you will probably say you are conversating politely).

Gosh, truly your world must be a whole lot different than mine. You see offensive gestures in toys, yet you refer to other posters in this thread as ignorant every chance you get and somehow that is not supposed to be offense?

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
But what was once a peaceful symbol got hijacked by racism. Yet we give the symbol itself the benefit of doubt.

No benefit of the doubt at all.

The Nazi swastika is illegal. Simple.

Should we not do the same to a golliwog?

IMO no. Quite simply because IMO it is a symbol based on racism and hate.

The swastika is not.

unless of course, you think that children who are given golliwogs are making a choice by owning a racist item?

I would have issues with any parent giving their child a gollywog.

What the parent should be doing is educating the child as to the true history of the gollywog.

More importantly how can litigation be used to determine whether or not the woman had racist intentions by her mere possession of a golliwog?

Any racial intent (be it verbal, physical or implied by motive) would need to have been witnessed or, alternatively, proven through historical events.

As we do not know the history, we are all guessing as to whether the neighbour really did feel racially abused or if indeed the owner actually meant to cause racial offense.

[edit on 23/9/2008 by skibtz]

reply to post by Sonya610


So you say i have been constantly insulting throughout....yet all you can post is comments from this page???

Not insults, but observations i might add.

If you don't think gollies are racist, after reading the links i provided you, showing exactly why they ARE racist, then you ARE ignorant.

That is the best you've got??

Originally posted by Sonya610
you refer to other posters in this thread as ignorant every chance you get and somehow that is not supposed to be offense?

I am ignorant to/of many things in this world Sinya610, some if it is my own apathy and some of it is down to inexperience.

Being accused of ignorance on a subject is not necessarily a negative remark. Indeed, it is sometimes helpful to point out peoples weaknesses and short-comings in order to make them a stronger/better person.

I write like a 5-year-old, my spelling is shocking and I make mistakes all the time (see how many of my posts I have had to edit the typos on )

I am ignorant in many ways as are most of us. I hope to reduce that ignorance through learning and experience.

Peace.

[edit on 23/9/2008 by skibtz]

reply to blupblup

It was rhetorical.

Of course the child isnt making a choice.


reply to skibtz

The swastika is not illegal.

And exactly, you said it yourself. We would have to prove that the parent's decision to give the golliwog to her child/ place it in the window was the result of wilful malicious intent rather than "ignorance" of the origins of the golliwog (and then you would have to prove that the golliwog is in itself a racist item worthy of litigation against).

Its just not feasible, ergo the woman cannot be judged.

anyone remember SAMBO'S restuarant? that was not too long ago in america. people in britian should be a little more sensitive and not display them in public. but i stop there, getting arrested for this is too much, maybe the british police could have just given her a warning about public display when they came to the house and that would have been enough. there is alot more hate in this world causing real damage that needs to be addressed rather then an innocent (so it sounds) mistake.

Jezze! The next thing you know, people will be jailed for displaying a raggedy Anne or Andy doll because some Ginger (red head) called the police and claimed to be harassed.

Its just a stupid doll, why dont they ban them if they really care so much? (like tobacco! ) they dont care its a lie. They want it all.. money and control.


Was it hanging by its neck in a noose with a slogan on it? no. Grow up I say to the neighbour, and anybody else who is 'really' offended. All certain people pulling the strings want to do in this world is start race wars... and some people are always going to fall for it and play their games.

Stupid laws, we cant even sing bah bah black sheep anymore and its not a black board in school now its a sodding chalk board!! WHY!!!? is it not black!!? why dont they use a blue board with yellow chalk then everyone is happy!? Jesus..... they may aswel ban the word BLACK!!!

Actually black isnt even a color its a shade they say.. so does that mean black people are a shade not a color? IM CONFUSED......

Most black people here probably think its bloody stupid aswel banning bah bah black sheep and other stuff, but they dont set the laws its the powers that be dictating to us who should be offended by what!


One thing that really gets up my nose is the fact most of what we call BLACK people are BROWN!!! but the system has us calling them black because they want things simple black and white. Now brown people call themselves black because we made them do it.


I rarely meet a person who is jet black. Not that they dont exist but you get my point.

So the end of my point is the golliwog doesnt have to mean a damn thing to any black person, its your choice if you want to relate to it. Are you black or brown? if they made it brown would it still be offensive? If so they better ban all brown dolls out now. Oh but then black / brown people would complain theres only white ones.


Sorry to go off track but Im pi$$ed with the law in ALL countries I dont care about Brit this and USA that. We all need to say enough is enough and rush them like V for vendetta.

You might want to recognize that families accepting these dolls into their homes was also a way of accepting blacks into their society. That a child who grows up playing with a black doll that he or she likes, is more likely to be accepting of blacks as an adult. Where is the proof that these Gollywogs ever ever used to represent racism?

Dolls tend to exagerate the characteristics of people. This is normal. By the way, big lips and big round eyes are considered attractive by many people of all races. What is the problem?

By the way, calling someone ignorant because they disagree with what you consider to be the facts is straight up rude. You should always consider that your facts and beliefs could be wrong, and that you are the one who is mistaken.

As someone who is mixed (Blk and white) I read through your posts and felt quite upset re this ongoing debate re the gollywog. As a child I had one and when people mentioned that it was racist I didn't understand why, as I have never met a black person like this!...I have seen people like this - but usually they were wearing shoe polish on their faces!....I understand the debate and can totally see where people are coming from, but to me it represents a happy 'doll'!!! Thats what it is and what its true representation is - a doll who was very jolly and always on hand to help others!....Now if thats racist...the I think politically correctness has gone completly mad and the world has lost the plot!...Also I like the idea re the dude going down to london with the golly outfit on...I am sure you would get mixed reviews!...but I'd def have a smile on my face of happy memories!

ps Oh and just for the record - I got a golly for my birthday a few years ago and he sits proud as punch on my bed and although some of my black friends don't like him, I will fight for the golly as long as I live!!! x

reply to post by Bubblegum



For the 500th time.


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