Pakistani Women Buried Alive 'for Choosing Husbands'

Originally posted by moocowman
The OT does say that. But you refuse to admit that the NT says Christians are no longer under the law, but under grace since Jesus died. reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I refuse to admit?

surely the reverse is true? in that you refuse to admit that there are many many interpretations of the bible , I'll stick by mine you stick by yours and the muslims will stick by theirs.


When I am stood at the right side of the Lord and you are damned to hell for preaching pervertion of the word, who will be admiting what then brother?

The people who "perverted" the word of God were the men who created the Coptic Greek versions. Thos versions were rejected by the first Christians (Antioch Christians in the book of Acts), they rejected the Coptic Greek becasue it was perverted with Hindu and Buddhist ideas in Alexandria, Egypt.

The Koine Greek was considered the word of God, not the Coptic. The Koine was used to translate the King James Bible, the Coptic was used to translate the Roman Catholic Bible.

Westcott and Hort translated the Greek that ALL modern Bible versions come from. Westcott and Hort were two men heavily involved in the Occult, Westcott formed the Hermes Club, and both of them were involved with the Theosophy Society of Russia.

"An evil tree cannot bear good fruit."

There is only 1 authorized version in English, that is the 1611 KJV. All other versions were translated from the rejected Coptic Greek, the KJV was translated from the Koine Greek that the first Christians used at Antioch.

Originally posted by moocowman

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by moocowman

 

You're forgetting that Mosaic law also requires the testimony of two witnesses to the act itself for that person to be put to death.

So ? what difference does that actually make to anything ?

In relation to killing the end result is always the same death, in relation to motives well they are not much different in bible law or islamic law but neverthess, regardless of the motives the end result is allways the same, death.


if you break muslim law muslims will kill you

If you break te bible law fortunately for you your not allowed to be killed by a person but nevertheless the Jesusgod will kill you at a later date.

so whats the big difference ?

Because of that long list of things you say the Bible calls for the death penalty for. But under that same law (Mosaic) it also says the condemned must have 2 eyewitnesses testifying against him to be sentenced to death.

A person accused of a homosexual act would have needed 2 witnesses to that act to testify against him, same for adultery, same for blasphemy, the same for all.

It took the testimony of 2 eyewitnesses for the death sentence to be justified in the sight of God.

Yes, under Mosaic law the death penalty was required for such offenses, but it also required the testimony of 2 eyewitnesses to the act itself to be found guilty.

Originally posted by moocowman If you break te bible law fortunately for you your not allowed to be killed by a person but nevertheless the Jesusgod will kill you at a later date.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical I admit the OT says to do such things, I ALSO point out that the NT says Christians are no longer under the law.

Ok, maybe I'm just stupid, but it looks to me like one of you guys is going to burn in hell for all eternity...yada, yada, yada...unless one of you changes your evil ways and embraces the ways of the other.

So....?

Your comments, gents?

[edit on 2-9-2008 by JohnnyCanuck]

Originally posted by karl 12
reply to post by moocowman

 

Hey dont forget your bible telling you to gruesomely murder unruly teenagers,slaves,sabbath workers and non beleivers too!

If your going to be a homicidal religious psychopath then why not do away with the bible altogether and just kill everybody who doesn´t share your hatefull,bigotted,small minded opinion?

Christ dude that seems a bit harsh but could be a good idea, I'll take this up with my pastor and see what he has to say about it. After all my pastor knows much better than me and really understands what god is trying to say to me.

i dont think that doing away with my bible is such a good idea though, after all I haven't had it that long. Come to think of it, prior to my accepting the Word into my life things did seem a little simpler.
For example, if my friend or colleague informed me he or she was gay, I would have not given it anymore thought than if I was told me he enjoyed Buffy the vampire slayer.

Now however I have to pity this person who is consumed by satan whos acts are an abomination and will send him to eternal hell unless he decides not to be gay anymore and accept the lord.

It is such a burden to now inform my kids that they wont be seeing any more Harry potter movies as they promote witchcraft and my kids could fall under the spell of the enemy.

There is one element of piece of mind that I have to thank the Word for, that is I no longer have to consider 911. I now know it was either the work of Satan or punishment from the Lord.
I no longer have to think about that or for that matter accept any responsibilty for my life, if it's good then its from god, if it's bad its from satan. Nothing to do with me I'm always influenced by an outside force greater than myself.

Originally posted by moocowmanI no longer have to think about that or for that matter accept any responsibilty for my life, if it's good then its from god, if it's bad its from satan. Nothing to do with me I'm always influenced by an outside force greater than myself.

Ok, smarty-pants, you had me going for a while there...should you be calling yourself moocowpooman?

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by moocowman If you break te bible law fortunately for you your not allowed to be killed by a person but nevertheless the Jesusgod will kill you at a later date.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical I admit the OT says to do such things, I ALSO point out that the NT says Christians are no longer under the law.

Ok, maybe I'm just stupid, but it looks to me like one of you guys is going to burn in hell for all eternity...yada, yada, yada...unless one of you changes your evil ways and embraces the ways of the other.

So....?

Your comments, gents?

[edit on 2-9-2008 by JohnnyCanuck]

How can I possibly go to hell dude? I have accepted the Lord as my saviour, the lord speaks to the heart we know with faith what is word is.

Remember, the lord who is god and is all that is , the god that is pure love an compassion the god that is everlasting and cannot die.
Came to earth and on is own accord with the blessing of himself in order to show glory to himself.

The lord sacrificed his only son by allowing him to be killed instead of me, allthough he rose 3 days later a testament to the fact that he is a god and cannot be killed.

So allthough he really didnt sacrifice anything literally because he cant die, he still saves us.

he saves us from the sin that was created by satan because god cannot creat sin we are born into sin, even if we dont sin.


Anyone remember the TV sitcom called Soap with Billy Crystal ?

Christianity has allways reminded me of that show or vica versa

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


The ONLY thing that saves a man is whether or not that man accepts Jesus Christ's death and shed blood as payment for their sins. Faith alone is counted for righteousness, not works least any man should boast.

It says all our "good works" are seen as filthy rags to God, we are sinners. We are to follow Christ in thought, speech, and action as best we can, but that isn't for salvation. Salvation is simply believing that Jesus's death and shed blood was payment we owed God for all our sins.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by moocowmanI no longer have to think about that or for that matter accept any responsibilty for my life, if it's good then its from god, if it's bad its from satan. Nothing to do with me I'm always influenced by an outside force greater than myself.

Ok, smarty-pants, you had me going for a while there...should you be calling yourself moocowpooman?

Moocowpooman could be most excellent dude.

I really hate to take such a serious heart wrenching post lightheartedly.
but when religion is involved, things inevitably get reduced to one religion bashing the other and christians trying to pretend that if they lived at for example the times of the inquisition they would have not been involved.

If my great grandfather persecuted and killed black people for being black, this I would consider repugnant, more so if he held his beliefes because he read them in a dodgy book.

What is totally insane is that I his great grandson live my life by the same book, yet claim I do not act the way he did because I only use part of the book and he must have been mistaken about the parts he acted upon.
I have not given any consideration whatsoever to the fact that other people prevent me from acting the way he did and should they not, would I not have, just followed the family tradition?

Originally posted by moocowman How can I possibly go to hell dude? I have accepted the Lord as my saviour

Yes, but you tell me that I have to follow all the biblical rules...you know, smiting and all that,or I'll go to H, E, Doubletoothpicks...but some of that stuff is against the law. NOTurTypical tells me that Jesus said we don't have to do that stuff anymore...though there are likely still folks doing eternity for eating meat on Fridays, but that's another issue.

Somebody is going to be joining me in Heck...you've both told me about your own fates...tell me what, according to your beliefs, is going to happen to the other guy.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by moocowman How can I possibly go to hell dude? I have accepted the Lord as my saviour

Yes, but you tell me that I have to follow all the biblical rules...you know, smiting and all that,or I'll go to H, E, Doubletoothpicks...but some of that stuff is against the law. NOTurTypical tells me that Jesus said we don't have to do that stuff anymore...though there are likely still folks doing eternity for eating meat on Fridays, but that's another issue.

Somebody is going to be joining me in Heck...you've both told me about your own fates...tell me what, according to your beliefs, is going to happen to the other guy.

No, I said we are no longer justified by following the law, that salvation is NOT by works. Salvation is through faith in Christ alone.

The Bible says to fail the law in 1 part is to fail the entire law. No man can completely follow the law, we are sinners. And that is precisely why Christ's death on the cross was sufficient sacrifice for us all, he was the only one who followed the law to a T. Therefore he was the sacrificial lamb, he was blameless, yet died for us to be saved.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I fail to see the point in your reply to this post IE the ammount of witnesses it takes to convict, be it one or a thousand when your a gay or blasphemere witch or adultress your gonna get killed.

According to many christians the Jesusgod is due back pretty soon and will kill me and most of my friends and family anyhow.

What i dont understand is why christians are still hanging around, why havent they given all their possessions and money away and taken a trip to hawaii to hang out till the jesusgod returns. He'll know where they are and only has to destroy everything that isn't hawaii, job done, we dont want to be preached to anymore and we certainly dont want our children influenced.

If the jesusgod wants our children to go to Hawaii with the christians I'm sure that being a god he could manage to figure out how to do it himself.

I don't know what you are talking about, and what I stated was true. Under Mosaic Law homosexuals, adulterers, et were to be killed for their sins.

However, in order for them to be found guilty of such a crime it took the testimony of 2 eyewitnesses to that sinful act.

Example, lots say I committed adultery with a woman and she told her husband about it. He could divorce her, and I had to pay him money, but neither of us could have been put to death for it because there were not two witnesses to the act.

Now, in the same instance, if 2 people caught us in the act of adultery then we could both be sentenced to death for such.

My point is, yes, the Bible called for death for many things under Mosaic Law, but the guidelines for doing so need to be mentioned as well, the act of sin itself needed the testimony of 2 eyewitnesses for the death penalty.

reply to post by moocowman


With an attitude like that there are a lot of athiests that will reach Heaven first. I'll be praying for you. God is nothing like you believe.

Just love and treat everyone with dignity and work for human rights and to preserve our world from environmental destruction. Thats all there is to it. Just love.

[edit on 2-9-2008 by mystiq]

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Ownification

 

Honor killings are common in Muslim nations, and when they develop populations in other nations like Europe, they bring the practie with them.

How are we supposed to tell the difference between the moderates and the barbarians who arrive on our midst. Honor killings are occuring at increasing rates in Europe, and they are being carried out by Muslims. Denying that this is a problem in the Muslim community is burying your head in the sand.

As I said once again they keep coming back. In the Ghetto(don't know what else to call it), people get shot for no reason as I said previously. This culture is spreading to New Zealand is well. Prior to this American culture moving to New Zealand it was not necessary for Police-men/Police-women to wear protective vests on duty, now that the culture is widely spread accross NZ(specialy Auckland), all police officers must wear protective gear on petrol. Everywhere you go people walking in gangs, wearing their colors, fighting is on the increase and lets not even talk about theft.

There are many cases where people have been stabbed just for wearing red or blue colored cloths(madness), but than again it's a culture that is exactly why no one complains. Now we have people in this thread who are complaining about the South-East Asian culture forgetting about their own, how idiotic can one get.

I'm not denying that honor killing is not a problem in Muslim communities just like I don't deny color killing(blood & crips) in Western communities. What I'm saying and have been saying for along time that you can't blame Islam for it. They do it for their pride, their dignity and their honor.

Let me tell you about the culture of my country. If you owe someone money and are not able to pay and you die yet still owing money to an individual, it's a culture to kill that man's son. The son won't complain, he won't say aaaaaa this is unfair, this is wrong, I don't deserve this, and do you know why? Because it is the culture of that area. Where does Islam come in? I have no idea.

Now I advice you to take in to consideration the American culture which has caused much more negative effects around the world equally to the Middle-East or South-East cultures. Blame all cultures not just one.

Originally posted by L.HAMILTON

Pakistani Women Buried Alive 'for Choosing Husbands'

www.telegraph.co.uk

Israr Ullah Zehri, who represents Baluchistan province, told a stunned parliament that northwestern tribesman had done nothing wrong in first shooting the women and then dumping them in a ditch.

"These are centuries-old traditions, and I will continue to defend them," he said.

"Only those who indulge in immoral acts should be afraid."

The women, three of whom were teenagers and whose "crime" was that they wished to choose who to marry, were still breathing as mud and stones were shovelled over their bodies, according to Human Rights Watch

(visit the link for the full news article)

This is not OUR PROBLEM! This is an example of 3rd world culture and it is not up to us to change it to our way of thinking. We have NO RIGHT to do so.

Originally posted by Evisscerator

Originally posted by L.HAMILTON

This is not OUR PROBLEM! This is an example of 3rd world culture and it is not up to us to change it to our way of thinking. We have NO RIGHT to do so.

There your wrong it is our problem Is it ok to stand there and watch somebody being killed and say nothing? This is morally wrong and well as legally you would be tried as an accessory to murder civilized society cannot allow these things to happen. Hell it legalizes murder who cares they broke sheria law deserved it come on. Now I will say the only people that can change this are the moderates of the religion and pressure from society. Society dictates that Mormons cant have multiple wives its part of there religion so why cant they because society deemed this unacceptable behavior. All though having multiple wives could be fun! On second thought probably not just more people to tell me what Im doing wrong.

reply to post by mystiq



The information you have aquired is deeply shocking, how any human being can cannot be moved by this is beyond me.

What is more totally unacceptable to me is the fact that so many of this world claim that this is part of a loving gods plan.

We would not even entertain the thought of acting in this manner and I for one find thinking about it too long deeply upsetting.

It goes without saying that, I would not treat an animal in this way let alone my child. This can only lead to one very obvious truth for me, in that I have a far higher moral standard and greater compassion for my own children and others, than my alledged creator.

When any action is not stopped it is obviously allowed to happen regardless of what that action is. The action in question is repulsive and repugnant to me and I personally would have the action stopped if I could.

However, there are those who scream from the pulpits that this is part of gods plan, thus making god ultimately responsible for this shameful human misery.

This god of the religions, the archetect of all that is cannot be anything other than repulsive by creating such misery.

Or this god is completely imaginary, and as a species we need to grow up take reponsibilty for our actions and accept that religion has poisoned the world that we share and dump it as a flawed idea that has failed to achieve what it supposed to have done.

reply to post by Evisscerator


thats one hell of an ignorant post
arnt you glad you live in america?

all this talk of religion is nothing more than egotistical. have any of you seriously thought about what the woman who are beaten daily and killed in so called honour endure? instead you argue over nonsense like who's religion is better rarara...

crimes against woman is a huge problem in ALL countries, not just those of third world. if you really cared, after reading the initial thread instead of arguing you'd look up websites and see there are many charities trying to stamp out these atrocities and how you can maybe help.

Originally posted by mystiq
reply to post by moocowman

 

With an attitude like that there are a lot of athiests that will reach Heaven first. I'll be praying for you. God is nothing like you believe.


[edit on 2-9-2008 by mystiq]

Thanks for the prayers, what will you be praying for exactly ?

My attitude ?

Going to heaven? I was led to believe "The kingdom of heaven is here" but I suppose it all down to how an INDIVIDUAL interprates the proclamation.

God is nothing like I belive ?

With the greatest respect, how exactly would you know what I believe god is or is not like?

From your question, you are saying god is not like I believe but in fact how you believe.

So how can you actually know this?

Did god tell you personally ? Did god take a physical form sit on your sofa and say hey dude this is who I am and what I'm all about ?

Or did someone else tell you what god is like? Did you grow up with your parents telling you what god is like ?

Did you one day decide to look for god and meet a person or persons that claim that they know what god is like?

Or did you read it in a book that someone wrote claiming it was what god is like?

By asking these questions it is plain to see I have no idea what you believe god is or is not like, and if we're honest I never could unless I got inside your brain for the day.

If you answered that someone else told you what god was like then I would obviously ask you, do you believe eveything that someone else has told you. Bearing in mind I would have to get inside your brain for the day for me to fully anderstand what your thoughts are.

If you had read in a book what god is like, then that is just someone else telling you what god is like and you may or may not have chosen to accept everything you have been told is true.

If god on the other hand, sat on your sofa with you, then it's fair to say you have first hand knowledge or are deluded. I may or may not chose to belive you but would respect your experience and belief.

If you decide to dump your experience in my brain, then of course I would get pissed off and inform you that if god wants to sit on my sofa it can, and if your life appears to be so much improved and you live in a manner that I would perhaps like to live, then obviously I would relish god sitting on my sofa.

If god can sit on your sofa when you invite it over then I'm sure god is capable of sittng on my sofa when invited, but I don't need you to sit on my sofa as you could be mistaken, deluded or a liar that just wants to steal my tea bags and obviously are not god.

reply to post by enlighten2012


Excellent post, I personally think the reasons that threads like this end up in the my god is better than your god arena, is that there are some myself included that are appalled by this type of attitude to other people not just women. And it would appear that in general, much (but admittedly not all) of the barbaric attitudes toward these victims stem from deep rooted religious beliefs.

There are thos who are not religiously inclined that observe the hypocracy of some religions when they condemn these acts. They seem to fail to notice or won't accept that their own religions have held (and some still do) appalling attitudes toward women.


When it's pointed out that when men have this dirogatory attitude to women it is mostly (but not always) an inherant attitude from deep even if sometimes diluted, religious belief systems, the arguments start.

EG

There are those who have a copy of the Mark1 orange computer manual, which was invented eons ago. I have copy of the Mark million computer manual.

The mark 1 computer was crap and failed to do what it was supposed to do and none exist anymore, but there are people who claim they have the original manual and for whatever reason claim it is perfect for operating the Mark million computer.


The people who claim to have the mark 1 manual refuse point blank to look at any other manual, unless it is someone elses mark1 one manual which they proceed to heavily criticise and condemn for not being authentic.

The unfortunate bit is, the many people with the Mark1 manual for some reason keep insisting that, when they go to work etc and get their hands on a Mark million computer (even mine) they must use their mark1 manual which completely screws things up as it simply doesnt work but they refuse to aknowledge that in any way.

That's my ittle analogy (to some ANALogy?) of the poison and ignorance religious beliefs spread.