New ex-Christian who is lost in his own freedom and uncertainty.

reply to post by FiatLux


Eh. I'm not quite ready to make that assumption yet.


Gee, this has been a good thread. My ATS points were less than 100 when I started this thread. 8 pages is a good lot of activity.


edit: I just pushed it to 9 pages

[edit on 9/3/2008 by Good Wolf]

Hey, that`s ok guy, your just starting. What I said was what I went through in my own mind back then. Just look inside yourself for your answers, it`s all there. Good luck in your search.

LOVE the topic. If your open, truth will find YOU. Zeitgeist will set some people free, others it will torture. It is true, you know in your heart it is. The Bible has lots of truth too, but God would not want you confused, only man would to control you. Read the MANY books of the Bible that Man chose to leave out because it did not fit his plan.

The true people were all crucified by the church for their relationship with God directly, and were told you can only worship God as a "church", therfore making God something other than what "God" really is. Many people died because of this.

Don't hate God. It's man that is to blame. However, don't hate man, because he is you. God created you in his own image. So, that makes you, and everyone else, "God". It is what it is, you don't have to understand it. Seeking truth landed you here. Where you go from here is "Free Will"

reply to post by Good Wolf


Again, you are looking to deny and reject at this point. Just remember, "as ye seek, so shall ye find." What you call contradictions and inconsistencies, I call Divine Paradoxes, statements that seem contradictory, unbelievable, or absurd but may be true in fact. They draw me to deeper consideration and understanding. I believe you are in the process of forming a new thought paradigm that may do the same for you, eventually.

I get a kick out of your little victory dances and envision you licking a finger and putting up a point for you and your supporters. Have fun with your little game. Read back through your posts to this thread in a month or two and realize how pedantic and whiny you are being.

There is little point in going through every seemingly contradictory set of Bible quotes to show you and your support the contextual inaccuracies of your arguments. You are smugly ensconced in your disbelief and I doubt anything I say will make a difference in that regard right now. I trust God to sort it out in His time. You see, that's the difference between us right now, I trust God and His Word, and you don't. Blackaby's "Experiencing God" might help with that, if you are interested.

You may think I am using a double standard as it suits your purposes to do so. You simply don't understand the message and have lost your way.

Mark 4

12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

I am under no obligation to pat you on the head and say "That's, ok." You took our dialogue out to the edges of decency in your rejection of what you think I stand for, and one of my many failings is my willingness to respond in kind at times. Another is my stubborn inability to let a sleeping dog lie.

Matthew 7

6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Rend away. I like quoting fitting Scripture.

Ephesians 6

17(b) the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God

Ah, the armor of God, that I may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil!

reply to post by Icarus Rising


It all comes down to this. Good Wolf is looking for answers. Answers require logic, because you can transfer logic to another person, but not a belief or a perspective. I'm not knocking you, but you have provided little in the way of logic. Most of your posts seem to be quoting scriptures, which to you makes sense, but to someone who is seriously looking for facts, makes no sense at all. Just like if I quoted a scripture from any other religious article, it would mean nothing to you, but only to the people that follow that religion. I'm sure you mean well, but Good Wolf has asked repeatedly for more than just assumption, or biased remarks.

Also, you explained those contradictions as "divine paradoxes". There's a problem. God states that he is not the author of confusion. Why would he contradict himself and cause confusion if he is not the author of confusion? This one is more of a lie than a contradiction, as he clearly is the author of confusion. No book in all of history has caused more confusion than the Bible. It's because so many of the scriptures can be taken either way. During the Civil War, southerners quoted scriptures that supported slavery, while northerners quoted scriptures that supported freedom.

So I guess what I'm getting at is that it helps no one to quote scriptures from such a book when someone is looking for something concrete. No disrespect, these are just the facts as I see them.

reply to post by Icarus Rising


Well I don't like repeating myself, but you seem adamant that you want to stay in your logic ditch, splashing around, so have fun.

"Divine Paradox." Really?! You said you were a devout, fundamentalist, born again evangelist. You should add apologist to that CV.

Also I'm smug? That's the pot calling the kettle, black.

[edit on 9/3/2008 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by knows_but_doesnt
LOVE the topic. If your open, truth will find YOU. Zeitgeist will set some people free, others it will torture. It is true, you know in your heart it is. The Bible has lots of truth too, but God would not want you confused, only man would to control you. Read the MANY books of the Bible that Man chose to leave out because it did not fit his plan.

Thanks for the post.

Just don't take zeitgeist as gospel aye. I did a bit of research into the first chapter, the parallel jesuses' was built on really thin material and probably should be limited to Mithras and maybe Dionysus.

Other than that though, it was bang on.

I think Loose Change and Terrorstorm are some more very informative doccos.

reply to post by TruthParadox


In 60 days or so Americans will go to the polls to elect their next President. Everyone knows this, I just assumed that you would automatically get the reference.

As far as I can tell you the whole point of the War on terror was to capture the White House. So, on this day you will know who has won the War on terror on that day.

Dude you really hate Chrisitans don't you. That must really suck.

reply to post by bruxfain


Common', he doesn't hate christians. He just doesn't much like irrational people.





On a side note, I want to start a new thread on the usefulness and value of the christian bible.

Bound to be a contested topic but we could consolidate all the argument for and against there instead of on this thread since that's not what this thread is about......

....this thread's title says "ex-Christian" so it's a given that I don't put much weight in the bible yet for a few pages, that's all that was argued on.

Who wants to second this motion?

[edit on 9/3/2008 by Good Wolf]

[Next was faith. As I've said before blind faith in the unexplainable/unreasonable was foolish and risky. ]

Good morning Wolf
Do you believe in Love ?Isnt it unreasonable and unexplainable ?
Isnt it considered foolish and risky ?
Doesnt it take blind faith to believe in it ?
Are you going to just discount love then because it cant be seen ?
NO >


Hbr 11:1 ¶ Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Hbr 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Hbr 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

reply to post by Simplynoone


Good morning Simplynoone.

I don't have to stake my immortal soul on love now do I?


Plus, I'm 19, I've never been in love so I wouldn't know.




.

[edit on 9/3/2008 by Good Wolf]

You hope for it dont you and you dream of it dont you ?
And it requires alot of faith to do that doesnt it ?

Originally posted by Simplynoone
You hope for it dont you and you dream of it dont you ?
And it requires alot of faith to do that doesnt it ?

....... why?

Can't a drive that one would die for be chemical? Psychological? Both?
Even pathological.
Plus love is tricky with no clear definition, first hand experience.

But what's this got to do with the price of bread?

[edit on 9/3/2008 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by Good Wolf
On a side note, I want to start a new thread on the usefulness and value of the christian bible.

Bound to be a contested topic but we could consolidate all the argument for and against there instead of on this thread since that's not what this thread is about......

I'll second it -- discussion should be encouraged; might want to move it to the BTS religion forum, though.

I've always though there's a lot of secular wisdom in the bible (and other religion's holy books, too!) that is obscured by parts that are 'necessary to take on faith'.

It could almost be considered a conspiracy -- take a profound truth that could be expressed rationally and logically, wrap it in a context that requires 'faith' to believe, then stir up a storm of controversy around those issues of faith. Result: truth hidden, safely ensconced in the eye of the hurricane.

reply to post by Ian McLean


Tis decided then, only why BTS? I don't think I've been on there before. What's the difference?

That is a good idea Good Wolf. I have a feeling it may get heated at times. Many are set it their ways of thinking, so if you question their reality, they are going to get upset and fight back.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
I'm desperately looking for the answer to two questions:

1) Does a God(s) exist? and,
2) Is there an afterlife?

Have you asked the voice that you hear these questions? I would be interested to hear what answers you got.

reply to post by Good Wolf

Well I have no definitive conclusion that a more general thread should be there, instead of here on the ATS-side, but just going by the 'forum description' text at the top of this page:

This forum is dedicated to the speculation and examination into conspiracies and scandals perpetrated or inspired by organized religions. This forum is not for the general discussion of religious topics.

Originally posted by Ian McLean
reply to post by Good Wolf

 

Well I have no definitive conclusion that a more general thread should be there, instead of here on the ATS-side, but just going by the 'forum description' text at the top of this page:

This forum is dedicated to the speculation and examination into conspiracies and scandals perpetrated or inspired by organized religions. This forum is not for the general discussion of religious topics.

You know, you're right, but I've already put it up.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 9/3/2008 by Good Wolf]

Because its takes faith to believe in love
It takes faith to believe in God .
Its pretty simple .

I read your answer to my post on the last page and I wanted you to know that I left the churchs too along time ago,I did not leave mad at them though I actually felt sorry for them because they truly need to find the real Lord too .
But seriously sometimes you sound alot like they do in these posts .
They really dont believe in God much either or they would not do as they do .
And if they really dont believe then they should not be just going through the motions because they are just fooling themselves then,And they are thinking that they are fooling God as well and they are not.

Ok hon have a nice day .