New ex-Christian who is lost in his own freedom and uncertainty.

[Yes, there are some things that may be true, but, there are other parts that do contradict themselves.]
That is just not true ..you just have not done your homework and cross referenced and dug deep enough and put all scriptures together that mention the same thing .You will find there are no contradictions it was just that you took it out of context and didnt do reference searches to try and find out why they seem like contradictions.

And I have read MANY MANY MANY other books and I do not tell anyone do not read anything else .In fact I suggest it .
But at the same time ..dont toss out a book just because you have only read a few lines or maybe even read the whole book ...and determined it to be hogwash .Until you do a serious study and spend alot of time digging and contemplating on it you will never find any answers to anything including that bible ..if everything was so easy to figure out in this world then we would be living in a different world wouldnt we ? The bible itself tells why no one understands it ..Because they already have blinders on and cannot possibly see the truth while reading it Just because they are already sure they wont understand and dont much care to do any real digging into it and they just give up and toss it out ...............
As with anything it requires seeking and searching and thinking ....and putting a whole picture together before you can understand anything at all .

Originally posted by bruxfain
In 60 days or so Americans will go to the polls to elect their next President. Everyone knows this, I just assumed that you would automatically get the reference.

Oh, really?

Originally posted by bruxfain
But from what I can see, a major event will occur in the next 60 or so days. A Mind blowing event. Realities will be swept away permanently.

This is what I was refering to. Obviously the presidential election is not a "mind blowing event" whereby "realities will be swept away permanently". I love how I usually know more about someones post than they do.

Originally posted by bruxfain
Dude you really hate Chrisitans don't you. That must really suck.

I don't hate Christians. Some of my best friends are Christians. I simply hate the lack of logic which is usually associated with it. No offense. It's just that more people have dodged the points I bring up against God rather than try to prove me wrong in a logical fashion. Some resort to quoting scriptures other resort to blind assumptions, but very few even attempt to bring logical discussions into the picture.


Edited to correct the quotes. =)

[edit on 3-9-2008 by TruthParadox]

[edit on 3-9-2008 by TruthParadox]

[edit on 3-9-2008 by TruthParadox]

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Because its takes faith to believe in love
It takes faith to believe in God .
Its pretty simple .

Sorry but that's simply not true. We know why love exists. It's psychological. God is not physical in any way. The only feelings you feel about God could also be explained using psychology, could they not? After all, yours is not the only religion where you feel god's existence, yet I'm sure you would claim others to be false.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
God is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. He does not cause us confusion, we cause ourselves confusion with our limited perspectives. We have trouble thinking in terms of outcomes and seeing the end from the beginning. We simply don't understand the big picture most of the time, and we need to rely on God to reveal His truth to us as it is needed to achieve His will for us. Paradoxical.

But God is the author of the Bible, correct? Yet God is not the author of confusion, correct? Then why are there conflicting passages if he authored it without confusion? You can't blame it on the people because the conflicting text is right there to see in black and white. You would like to believe that God gives you a greater understanding about why these passages conflict, but there can be no greater understanding for many of them.

Example:
Why would the Bible say that no one has seen God, yet another scripture says that Moses saw God face to face? Is this a "Divine Paradox"? What would be the point of him contradicting himself in such a way? More over, why would he include such contradictions if he is omnipotent, as he would have to know that he would be damning those that use logic, such as myself.

Why is it so hard for you to admit that the Bible is fallible? It's obvious to anyone that looks at it without blinders on that it's fallible.

[Sorry but that's simply not true. We know why love exists. It's psychological. God is not physical in any way.]

Oh really then why do we live in such a physical world where everything that was created is physical ?

Look I have to go ..my sons father just passed away ..I will be back to this later.

reply to post by Good Wolf


The reason your inner voice of God has gone silent is unconfessed sin separates us from God and interferes with the ministry of the Holy Spirit in our lives. Get right with God and your communion with Him will return.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
[Sorry but that's simply not true. We know why love exists. It's psychological. God is not physical in any way.]

Oh really then why do we live in such a physical world where everything that was created is physical ?

That really doesn't make sense. If we were all born as acorns, then there would be a fraction of us that would say "look, we are acorns! There must be a creator!".

If you really want answers, then consider thinking outside the box of "God did it". There are answers that make sense. There are answers that are backed by logic. I'm not saying that I know the answers or that any other atheist does, I'm simply saying that every single scientific theory I have seen makes more sense than God.
The hardest thing for a human to do is not have an opinion on something. This is why opinions were forced back when we knew nothing about the Universe. Now, we know a lot more, so shouldn't theories created in the last century have more weight than those created thousands of years ago by every civilization imaginable?

reply to post by FiatLux


Yes, God is manifest in our lives in many ways. However, I do believe that in the search for God and the existence of an afterlife, to write off the Bible entirely complicates the task tremendously.

Btw, I don't belong to a megachurch, and I don't go door to door browbeating folks with hellfire and damnation. I normally wouldn't evangelize an individual against their will, but Good Wolf & Co. have made some statements here that I feel compelled to counter as best I can. Like I said, one of my many failings is this stubborn streak. I think it is a vestige of pride I am working on surrendering to the Good Lord.

reply to post by Simplynoone


You seem to be stuck on just the first part of what I wrote without anything to say about the rest of it, why? Like I said, I didn`t throw the book away. God isn`t just in a book, God is in everything.

reply to post by Good Wolf


You are asking the wrong questions.

Whether or not god(s) exists is irrelevant.

What you or I want to believe is irrelevant.

Reliable & observable evidence is the only subject that should matter. Remember, we are dealing with physical reality here.

In order to arrive at a reliable conclusion I recommend applying the scientific method. 1. Form a hypothesis that best represents the physical observations available. 2. TEST it! if you find any "kinks" in your hypothesis then go back to reformulation. 3. If the final hypothesis is solid, consider it closer to the truth.

The real question you should ask yourself; "What are the origins of man?"

My conclusions (I am an agnostic) which are subject to change (if new contrary evidence is introduced);

1. Reincarnation is a real phenomenon:

REINCARNATION, past life on proof positive - Captain Robert Snow
www.youtube.com...

Reincarnation, children remember past life
www.youtube.com...

REINCARNATION, past life evidence
www.youtube.com...

Reincarnation, the amazing story of a scottish child
www.youtube.com...

reincarnation, BORN AGAIN?
www.youtube.com...

2. Evidence for disassociation with body / existence of a spiritual body exists along with psychic potential.

Proof Positive - Remote Viewing
video.google.com...

Auras on SciFi Network's "Proof Positive"
www.youtube.com...

3. The judeo-christian religion is B.S. along with many other religions of the world:

Banned From The Bible II - The History Channel
www.youtube.com...

Who Wrote the Bible? -Robert Beckford
www.youtube.com...

Who Wrote the Bible? - History Channel
www.youtube.com...

[edit on 3-9-2008 by nikolat23]

reply to post by Icarus Rising


I found God without the bible Icarus, and it wasn`t at all complicated. I just searched within myself and found God, then I looked around and found that God is within everything.

reply to post by FiatLux


So, you're saying that you had no exposure to the Bible or Biblical precepts prior to finding God within yourself and in everything around you? Where did your concept of God come from? How did you know to look for Him, or even what you were looking for?

reply to post by TruthParadox


Riddled with contradictions and inconsistencies? You've come up with what you think are, what, four, not including the one I already debunked? Come on. I'm not going to bother with them because they all follow the same pattern of out of context misinterpretations of text that has been translated and retranslated for two millenia. Let's face it, you can't afford for the Bible to make sense because it would mean you aren't in control with your logical conclusions. You are denying the existence of God because He doesn't fit into your preconceived notions of how the world should work. In doing so, you are usurping the role of God in your life, and imo, setting yourself up for a big fall.

The supernatural is logic defying by definition. You can't possibly claim that everything in life can be explained using human logic. Some things are just inexplicable. Thats why we have a word for it.

You know Icarus, I tried to see things your way and it didn`t work. I still knew down deep inside that there was more to God then what the bible says. Did I read the bible before finding God inside myself, yes I did. But, what I got from it at that time was, yes, there is a God. So I went looking for something more that could help me in my search. I was walking through a book store trying to find other material to read about this. I happened to look up and saw a word that was like turning a light on inside myself, it gave me a peacful feeling inside, just the word itself, meditation.

Through meditation I found that God is all things, all realities, good and bad, love and hate, man and woman, the life force within us and without us. God is above, around and throughout all things, and far beyond that, even space and time. I found that God does not judge us for the things we do, God gave us the free will to judge ourselves as to help us grow spiritually back to God. That this life is but a small stepping stone on our journey back home to our creator. Some of the stories in the bible are true in small detail. Like the story of Jesus, which is true, but does not tell the whole story of his purpose. One could write volumes on the information we have inside of us. One thing I did learn with this, is that to belittle and put down someone else for their beliefs, is the same as doing it to yourself, because we are all part of God.

One more thing to think about. The harder the task is, the better we will feel about ourselves in the end for having completed it. The truth is within all of us about God, it`s just that some are able to bring that understanding with them when entering life, and never forgetting it from that point on.









[edit on 3-9-2008 by FiatLux]

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
Riddled with contradictions and inconsistencies? You've come up with what you think are, what, four, not including the one I already debunked? Come on.

I *listed* 4 because if I went into the topic of Biblical contradictions, I would still be typing them up. Did you not visit the link I gave which was from a former preacher who began to see all the contradictions in the Bible and turned away from all the lies?

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
I'm not going to bother with them because they all follow the same pattern of out of context misinterpretations of text that has been translated and retranslated for two millenia. Let's face it, you can't afford for the Bible to make sense because it would mean you aren't in control with your logical conclusions. You are denying the existence of God because He doesn't fit into your preconceived notions of how the world should work. In doing so, you are usurping the role of God in your life, and imo, setting yourself up for a big fall.

Wrong. Even if the Bible had no contradictions, I still see the obvious contradictions of an omnipotent God. The idea of Zeus is less contradictory than God, yet I don't put any stock into it either. And I am not making myself out to be God or anyone else. I simply see facts. If there are facts or any evidence of God, then I would consider it. There are not. Thus our current situation. I am not denying the existence of God because he does not fit into my preconceived notions of how the world should work, as my preconceived notions were that God exists. I was brainwashed into believing that, so don't tell me something about myself which you know nothing of. Christians are masters at assuming things. Don't be that person.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
The supernatural is logic defying by definition. You can't possibly claim that everything in life can be explained using human logic. Some things are just inexplicable. Thats why we have a word for it.

Zeus is also logic defying by defintion. So is the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Does this mean they exist? You are trying to prove God by saying that it would be illogical to assume that there is not a God or higher force. This in itself is an illogical assumption.

No images of God exist, of course, but what if I provided evidence that Adam exists? Would that suffice. Here is an Image of Timur, a known descendant of Adam.

Timur

This is to illustrate that for some people there is no amount of evidence that can be provided so that they can see what it completely obvious and well known to be the case.

Here is a better image. If you look closely, you'll see that he's an Elf.






[edit on 3-9-2008 by bruxfain]

reply to post by bruxfain


Oh I see. This whole time I thought you were being serious.
Trolls.
Gotta love em'.

Ok Im back .
Sorry had an emergency my sons father passed and I had to go to my son.


OK TruthP.....Scientists writes everything down that they learn right ?Everything that find to be their truths right ?And in a few years then people like yall come and read their findings right ?And unless you did the experiments or whatever yourself then all you have to go by ..to find out what those scientists found out is THEIR WRITTEN WORDS right >?
Well same goes for the bible ...


[You seem to be stuck on just the first part of what I wrote without anything to say about the rest of it, why? Like I said, I didn`t throw the book away. God isn`t just in a book, God is in everything.]
Fiat
Yes God is in everything INCLUDING SCIENCE and YOU and me and everything that we see .And no he is not just a book and yes you can find him at least partially from within ..But let me ask you this ..How will you seek him even deeper if you have no instructions (or written word like the ones your scientists left behind for you to read about how when why and what they found)?How will you find a starting place to proceed in getting to know him better ? Without a written instruction booklet ?
If left without it ..you will be stumbling along in the dark and all you will know is that he exists ..You will not know what he expects of us as humans here on earth ..you will not know why we are here ..you will not know about his Son Jesus Christ who he sent for you to know because it is through him whereby men can be saved ..He is the HEIR to all things that your scientists are trying to figure out ...I have read plenty of stuff online where alot of Scientists (Athiest ones) and Archeologists (Atheist ones) found out that the bible really was true .....just from doing the research into why do we exist and how did we get here ....There will always be those who do not even alllow for an existance in God and will till their death say he is not the one who created ..
Tells me alot about how much man in his pride and wisdom can just shut off to that thought (Of course we know who is behind that dont we) ..yes satan who doesnt want anyone to believe in God ..he wants you to think that he is god and even though he has for many a eon tried to convince man that he is god too ......does not make it so now does it ?
satan hates God ...and he hates you and me ....
In the end the bible says even satan will bow down before God .

Loolk I read lots of science stuff ..I dont close off anything about what they come up with ...But even as a non scientist mind .I can see where they figured alot out they just cant piece it together yet ..when they do if they would keep eyes open they will see it to ...

My opinion here
God did not do the work in creation (The elements did) he spoke the word and they obeyed ....Scientists have put together the fact that elements did something ..but they forget the fact that SOMEONE PUT IT ALL TOGETHER PERFECTLY >....Even the Elements are not capable of THINKING UP SUCH A THING .
Now do you get it ?That didnt even take a scientific mind for me to see that .

You wanna talk about illogical ..I believe its illogical as heck to believe that SOMEONE or SOMETHING other than a big bang didnt PUT IT ALL TOGETHER SO NEATLY ...............God spoke the word the elements obeyed and thats that ..
I believe there may have been a bang even ..but that bang didnt just put together everything like a potter would his precious piece of work.......


PS sorry I just noticed my mistake ,..the word DIDNT needed to be in there lol



[edit on 3-9-2008 by Simplynoone]

Originally posted by TruthParadox
reply to post by bruxfain

 

Oh I see. This whole time I thought you were being serious.
Trolls.
Gotta love em'.

That's your response? Figures.

Tamerlane is well known to be, apparently outside of the Western world, a son of Japheth. That is also the most accurate depiction you will see concerning the appearance of Adam, and all you can come up with is Trolls, whatever that means. Please produce a "rational" response.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
reply to post by Good Wolf

 

The reason your inner voice of God has gone silent is unconfessed sin separates us from God and interferes with the ministry of the Holy Spirit in our lives. Get right with God and your communion with Him will return.

I'm sure. I'm hunting and searching and asking after him and he goes away?

You and Simplynoone should read this essay on the accounts of a historic Jesus:

Did a historical Jesus exist?
By Jim walker



reply to post by TruthParadox


The trouble is that these arn't people who will put themselves into other peoples' shoes.

When I was a fundamentalist, I never thought to see things from an external perspective, outside looking in. In any argument that I found myself in, my failure in communication and understanding of other people and thier right to disagree was not being able to look at myself from the external.

It wasn't till later, in the solitary of my bedroom that I took a genuinely external perspective and started to think that I might just be wrong.

That started something wonderful for me.

Originally posted by bruxfain

That's your response? Figures.

Tamerlane is well known to be, apparently outside of the Western world, a son of Japheth. That is also the most accurate depiction you will see concerning the appearance of Adam, and all you can come up with is Trolls, whatever that means. Please produce a "rational" response.

Well, sorry, I honestly thought you were a troll. A troll, since you don't seem to know, is someone who posts on sites only to disrupt the flow and usually post things that have no bases. I believed you were a troll because you post something and say it is evidence when it clearly is not. Do you know what evidence is? How could you even jokingly call that evidence? *Scratches head*
According to your definition of evidence, Paul Bunyan and his giant ox must have been true. After all, they wrote about it in the past. I don't suppose they knew how to lie in the past, so every single article from the past must be true. Surely you see the lack of logic you present?

Originally posted by bruxfain
This is to illustrate that for some people there is no amount of evidence that can be provided so that they can see what it completely obvious and well known to be the case.

Completely obvious that Adam existed? Only about as 'obvious' as santa claus. You can't be serious. I just don't understand how someone can be so biased. You believe what you want to believe.