Anti Masons please read this!

If you want to be charitable join a charity.

If you want spirituality join a religion.

If you want brotherhood go to a bar or do a sport or hobby.

I don't see the need to join a secret society to do these things it seems a bit pointless to me... if this is the real reason masonry was brought about.

I don't see the need to join a secret society to do these things it seems a bit pointless to me... if this is the real reason masonry was brought about.

What about Odd Fellows? Eagles? Lions Club? Rotary? Elks? ... Some, if not all, of these are a "brotherhood." They all have meeting halls, ways to apply / get accepted, etc.

reply to post by Appak


well what point were you originally trying to make then that i felt the need to rebuttle? you must have said something that tipped off my BS detector. you're saying you realize that there are bad masons out there, but you won't get past the fact that a few bad apples spoil the bunch. some bad ones happen to be at the tip-top. otherwise, if it's elite, and it's secret, it can't be good. you chose a label, deal with the repercussions. if not, why just join a secret organization half-way, because it's convenient? i suggest meditation.

reply to post by II HAL II


if you don't want to join Masonry... fine. Then don't. There's no pressure to join. Nothing is for everyone. (well, ok, oxegen, water, ect. you get my gist.)
As for why it was created, well, from what I've read, it's most likely origination began as a actual StoneMasons guild, and went on from there. Though it's actual creation, and purpose for it, I'm sure are debated.

Originally posted by mtmouse32


Some states? Do you happen to see a children's hospital of ANY sort in every state / major city? No. From what it looks, they do have hospitals in a lot of major cities and Canada all over the US. And granted, they cater to children, what's the point? The initial statement was that the hospitals were for the rich. Now its a bash against just children. How about picking on Jerry's kids, Miracle Network ( which has only children hospitals throughout the US )

Its like an endless rant. Always going to be something wrong with them, even if its not wrong. There are dozens of specific hospitals for children. There are hospitals specific for different causes. Doesn't make them or the people who run them bad.

You brought kids hospitals into this, not me, I was talking about hospitals in general that "help everyone" not a specific age bracket and even then; kids with certain sicknesses.

You're the one ranting not me...lol

Since : 1.) I live in the US and 2) I have worked in the health care field ( and was in an ambulance that transported a terminally ill child to the nearest children's hospital ... the house we picked him up at certainly wasn't the governors mansion - and the town wasn't upper ( or upper-middle ) class.

Granted, rich may get the better rooms, better drugs ... but I would certainly think that these children's hospitals that do fundraisers would be sued and in the news if it was known for a fact that the rich get first dibs of help before another child with the same illness.

Did they have health insurance?

How'd they handle that huge medical bill.

My cousin had to pay 300 to 400 just for a ambulance to pick her up.

Hospitals are a momentary help and screw people afterwards...the thing is people need that momentary help...which falls in to the exploitation of people that I said I was against.

Seems like your agreeing they do, then a defense shield goes up.

[edit on 30-8-2008 by Shawn B.]

Originally posted by Mason mike
Brother, please don't feed the trolls.
they can get even dumber when they haven't eaten for a while.
I love when they get all into a thread posting the same lies they cut and pasted for Masonwatch.com, and the thread just ends.

Aw, come on Brother. You wouldn't go to the park without feeding the squirrels would you?

If nothing else, it's entertaining. Besides, the things they come up with are priceless! I honestly believe a hit Sit-Com could be made from the basis of some of the threads that come from this board.

Or even a soap opera. I can see it now. "Tune in next for: As the Stomach Turns"

[edit on 30-8-2008 by Appak]

reply to post by adrenochrome


Ok, I'm going to ask you one more time, and i want a real answer, not some kinda trippy, spiritual answer, but real, strong, checkable information:
Where are y'all getting your facts? How do you know anything about Masonry, aside from using Google and Youtube?

a book called "The Gods of Eden" by William Bramley has an excellent history on the masons. it's only like $8 at major bookstores, too! it uses MANY references and statistics from many reputable sources!

reply to post by RuneSpider


friend, i made that answer as real as it gets. it's all about spirituality - a personal connection with the divine creator, and not taking advantage of this material world to gain power through service-to-self. it's ALL about service-to-others (STO). i'm not "attacking" any of you, i'm just trying to say freemasonry is not only holding mankind back, because many major leaders are freemasons, but it's also steering it in the wrong direction. seriously, why do we need freemasonry?

reply to post by adrenochrome


Thank you, now that I've finally gotten a straight answer, I'll take a look at it.
Not a one liner, honest.
In no way shape or form fdid I take your post as an attack, just as in no way shape or form did I intend to say you were jealouse of Masons.
I'm a bit spiritual, sure, but I don't believe the stuff your selling, no offense meant. It's your truth, fine and good, but don't try to use that to make pclaims against others without backing it up.
I had one question, where are y'all getting your stuff from, free from rigamorale, i had to ask twice to get it.

[edit on 30-8-2008 by RuneSpider]

Originally posted by adrenochrome
...i'm just trying to say freemasonry is not only holding mankind back, because many major leaders are freemasons...

Which 'major leaders' are Freemasons? Can you please list them for me to review?

reply to post by RuneSpider


where am i getting my stuff from? well certainly not television or any other mainstream media outlet. i get it from books i've read, but mostly the internet. the internet is a great tool to hear all sides of the story. unfortunately people these days are so busy that they don't have much time to just sit and read. i, however, make the time, because i've always been fascinated with the real truth of this world, that which we're not told about. as a child i've always had a feeling there was something bigger going on, and now with the internet as a tool, i can read more about what really matters. peace!

Now yall play nice ..lol


You know I think the Masons are about in the same place as alot of Christians are who go to their Church of choice ....
They do good ...they have money ...most of the Church peoples just want to be in Church ..(they really dont know whats going on behind closed doors ..neither do they really care ..they do all the rituals not even realizing what they are doing them for ....(I believe that God hates Rituals of any kind) Even in Ezek the high priests were doing things in secret that were detestable (Ezek was shown what goes on behind closed doors of those priests)..And then there are the biguns in the back room deceiving and laughing prob at how gullible people can be in their Churchs and their Clubs etc ... ..

I do know about the Hospitals ..(A mason was very nice to offer to get my ADHD child in it I didnt do it but I did appreciate the offer ) ....The Shriners also paid for my sons glasses (back when I was poor) ...And those men were very nice men ..

I will give yall the benefit of the doubt that your not party to what they do or are doing behind closed doors in the name of your Club ....
Just like I would hope you would do the same to us Christians who are not part of organized Religion ....I mean most of us got out of Church because we had to open our eyes in order to see what they are doing in the name of Christianity ....I believe that if anyone should know how we feel ...It would be yall ...since it seems yall get labeled just like we do .....


PS I used to get mad too when people would try and tell me about the United Pentecostal Church ...and it wasnt until I saw some things and heard some things they did that actually made me dig deeper into what they are all about and what their Doctrines were (it was twisted for sure) ...
I had to actually open my eyes though and look for it ...I didnt want to ...because I loved them people ....But something kept nagging me to dig deeper ..
Thank God I did ...they were a CULT no doubt about it ..



[edit on 30-8-2008 by Simplynoone]

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Which 'major leaders' are Freemasons? Can you please list them for me to review?

here's a good place to start:

www.calodges.org...

Originally posted by adrenochrome
seriously, why do we need freemasonry?

Who is "we"? No one ever claimed we "needed" it. We don't "need" Disney World, but a lot of us enjoy it. But you know what? The funny thing is, those who do not or would not enjoy it don't have to go there. No one forces them to. Just like no one forces (or even ASKS) anyone to become a Mason. If it's not for you, don't apply for membership. But don't speak ill of it just because it's not something you're not interested in. I couldn't care less about the Kiwanis Club, but I'm not against them, nor angry because they exist in my community.

Also, I don't know how many of these so-called major leaders are Freemasons, but I'll bet a LOT of leaders of industry, government, politics, sanitation departments, etc. are also Kiwanis and Rotarians as well!

Look into that. I'd be interested in knowing actually. It might start a thread that actually has something new in it!

Originally posted by adrenochrome

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Which 'major leaders' are Freemasons? Can you please list them for me to review?

here's a good place to start:

www.calodges.org...

Sorry adrenochrome, but that's a poor start if you ask me. You said "major leaders" and if you look closely (or even distantly) you'll find that by far the majority of people on that list have actually had the audacity to die! Ah, but 'tis the fate of all that is human, is it not? I'd hardly call them "leaders" since they're not, well, uhm, "leading" as it were.

How about some living "leaders"? Know any of them?

I'll throw in Trent Lott. He's a Mason. But then again, he resigned from the US Senate in '07 to spend more time with his family, didn't he?

I'll be that's a plot! He's up to something, no doubt.

How about others? Do you know of any actual real-time "leaders" who are Freemasons? It'll make for good discussion to have some.

Thanks

reply to post by adrenochrome


I am aware of the people on that list. You said (bold emphasis mine), "because many major leaders are freemasons", which implies a present text aspect to the statement. The majority of people in the link you provided are dead which decidely places them in a past text setting.

Were you specifcally refering to dead Masons somehow influencing the direction of the world or did you mean that current world leaders are Freemasons? If the later I kindly restate my request for a list to review.

reply to post by Appak


You are too quick Appak, you beat me to it. Glad you also noticed that dead guys will typically have a difficult time leading.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Wow, Augustus, we're obviously on the same wave-length.

But even looking at that list and picking out LIVING members is pretty poor proof. Roy Clark is on there. Country Music performer, whom I had the pleasure of receiving the 33rd Degree with in Charleston, SC several years ago.

Heck of a nice guy, but would anyone seriously consider him a "major leader"???

"I'm a pickin' "

"And I'm a grinnin'"

Hee Hee Hee Haw Haw Haw!

Originally posted by Appak
But don't speak ill of it just because it's not something you're not interested in. I couldn't care less about the Kiwanis Club, but I'm not against them, nor angry because they exist in my community.

Also, I don't know how many of these so-called major leaders are Freemasons, but I'll bet a LOT of leaders of industry, government, politics, sanitation departments, etc. are also Kiwanis and Rotarians as well!

Look into that. I'd be interested in knowing actually. It might start a thread that actually has something new in it!

well obviously i wouldn't speak ill of them if they didn't give me a reason to! i wouldn't dare speak ill of anything just because i'm not interested in it - that's just perverted logic. and you don't speak ill of the kiwanis because they haven't done anything to upset you.

instead of me looking into what i already know, you should research more about the kiwanis' and rotary clubs' ideas of origin. research symbology more, and you'd realize that the gear logo, and the offshoot of it that the kiwanis use, stems from socialism and communism. you should take a look at Jordan Maxwell's research - he explains this much better...

www.jordanmaxwell.com...

here's the main research page of his; also listen to his lectures on GoogleVideo!
www.jordanmaxwell.com...