Please share it with us all >I am interested in your take on its meaning and if you can I would like a link that may explain its origins and what meaning it had from the very time it showed up .

The reason I want to know is because it is possible that just like with any symbol it could have many different meanings ...
But I am more interested in its original meaning when it was created.

You know and I know I could draw you something and the real meaning behind It I may not even tell you ..just tell you it means this and this ..when really it meant something else even deeper and darker than you had imagined ..

Churchs do this all the time ...Have you ever read up about Steeples ..Oh my gosh ..I was aghast that they would have one on a church ...after I read abuot its history (way back to its beginning ) ...And I wonder ..do they even know what it stands for ?

[edit on 30-8-2008 by Simplynoone]

Ok now we are making some progress ..
I will check out your link ..I will even do some very deep digging into the history and the origins of these practices and will get back to you ok..
Are you willing to possibly debate with me on them after I do my homework ?
I will promise to bring in Ancient Texts ,Ancient Masonic Texts and everything else I will need to debate it with you ?Without anyone getting angry I hope ..

It will take me a few days ...

I need some info though..
How long have you been one > ? And what degree are you ?

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Ok now we are making some progress ..
I will check out your link ..I will even do some very deep digging into the history and the origins of these practices and will get back to you ok..
Are you willing to possibly debate with me on them after I do my homework ?
I will promise to bring in Ancient Texts ,Ancient Masonic Texts and everything else I will need to debate it with you ?Without anyone getting angry I hope ..
It will take me a few days ...
I need some info though..
How long have you been one > ? And what degree are you ?

You're going to do all that in "a few days?"

No offense, but you might want to bring some lunch. I've been at this for well over 25 years. (Well, except for recently due to illness, or more likely old age!)

As for degrees, while you're researching, be sure to put emphasis on the degree structure of Freemasonry. It's important that you understand that "more degrees" does NOT mean "more of a Mason" or "high-ranking Mason"

The Master Mason (Third Degree) is the highest degree that can be held.

Many of us here on ATS have taken additional degrees though.

So, to specifically answer your questions I'm a Past Master (i.e., former presiding officer of the Lodge) In the York Rite Chapter I'm a Royal Arch Mason, in the Council, a Select Master & Super-excellent Master in the Commandery, a Knight Templar and member of the York Rite Sovereign College.

I'm a Knight Mason, a member of the Royal Order of Scotland, a VII° member of the Masonic Rosicrucians, member of the Allied Masonic Degrees and in the Scottish Rite, I am a 33rd Degree Mason.

There's probably some more, but that's a start.

Oh, and I hold or have held offices in several of these branches of Freemasonry, some on a state and/or national level.

I'm curious as to WHY you want to debate, though.

I'll gladly discuss, but there's really no need for debate. Debate indicates (eventually) a winner and a loser and there cannot be a winner on this topic. If your goal is to show me that Freemasonry is evil or Satanic, or nefarious or something of the like, it will never happen, because like most active members, I know better.

[edit on 30-8-2008 by Appak]

Which is larger? 3 feet or 36 inches? Same kind of analogy for those who don't otherwise have a clue. Degrees that further enlighten the intermediate aspects of Freemasonry do not in and of themselves render one 'higher' than the holder of the main degree.

Quote {I'm curious as to WHY you want to debate. I'll gladly discuss, but there's really no need for debate. Debate indicates (eventually) a winner and a loser and there cannot be one on this topic. So, gladly I'll discuss it with you.

As for degrees, while you're researching, be sure to put emphasis on the degree structure of Freemasonry. The Master Mason (Third Degree) is the highest degree that can be held. Many of us here on ATS have taken additional degrees though. To specifically answer your questions I've been a member for well over 25 years and am very active (well, except for recently due to illness, or more likely old age!) In the Lodge, I'm a Past Master (former presiding officer) In the York Rite I'm a Royal Arch Mason, a Select Master, Super-excellent Master, Knight Templar and member of the York Rite Sovereign College. I'm a Knight Mason, a member of the Royal Order of Scotland, a VII° member of the Masonic Rosicrucians and a 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Mason. There's probably some more, but that's a start}

YOu know and I know that almost every discussion is really a debate fixing to happen isnt it ?

So ok I would like to discuss it with ya ..

I already know alot about the degrees etc ..I just have to go over symbols and such a little more ..I didnt really dig deep into that part ...I am willing to now though ....I would like to know myself whats true or not about the Mason stuff ..just out of curiosity .

Oh by the way ...I am not the type of person who thinks ever Mason is evil ..I believe that there are just as many Masons in it not knowing what it all means (are ignorant or didnt study it enough) as there are Christians in a church who had no idea what that churchs denomination was before they joined ..
I have a best friend who joined a church a few years ago ..
I asked her ..what denomination is it >? Her answer was I dont know and I dont care ..they believe in Jesus thats all that matters... I was like WHAT ..you joined a church ..she also gives hours and hours running their events etc ...And you dont know what they believe other than in Jesus ..
Even the satanists believe in Jesus ....I asked her ..so what do they preach then ? She said I dont know ...I guess that Jesus loves you ...then she said it doesnt matter ..their music is cool ...they love me yadda yadda ..

I could not believe it ...blows me away at how easy people are led ...
thats why Cults are so good at what they do ..and thats why they are so big now ...its not hard to fool someone who just blindly follows .........


[edit on 30-8-2008 by Simplynoone]

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
All those titles you have.
The whole thing seems heavy on maintenance. And outfits!
Is there a more sedentary form of Masonry, perhaps in the "vision" or "planning" department?

Well, they're not really "titles" per se, they're just the names of the various degrees for the most part.

But, you're right. Sometimes it truly IS heavy on maintenance. 'specially since I'm getting so damned old.

The problem is, when you get deeply involved and active, you get noticed. When you get noticed, you get invited (a lot of those groups mentioned are by invitation only) And when you get invited it's insulting to the person or persons who invited you to say "Thanks, but no thanks." So...you end up with a lot of membership cards in your pocket, certificates on your wall and a lot less time on your hands. But it's rewarding if you like those kind of things.

Admittedly, though, I don't participate in as many as I used to. Letting the young guys (you know, the 40-50 year olds) do it.

As for "vision & planning" don't scoff. You'd be surprised how many Masonic committees you can find yourself on if you lose the ability to say "no"

[edit on 30-8-2008 by Appak]

Originally posted by Simplynoone
I already know alot about the degrees etc ..I just have to go over symbols and such a little more ..I didnt really dig deep into that part ...I am willing to now though ....I would like to know myself whats true or not about the Mason stuff ..just out of curiosity .

And that, I will gladly help you with. As will the other Masons on this board. You'll find we're generally a pretty nice (and informative) bunch of folks.

Oh by the way ...I am not the type of person who thinks ever Mason is evil ..I believe that there are just as many Masons in it not knowing what it all means (are ignorant or didnt study it enough) as there are Christians in a church who had no idea what that churchs denomination was before they joined ..

On that, I wholeheartedly concur. There are (sadly) a good number of very ignorant Masons. Most of them mean well, but have no comprehension what Freemasonry really is. Education is of the utmost importance for ANY individual or group of individuals, and there are far too many uneducated members of a lot of groups.



I have a best friend who joined a church a few years ago ..
I asked her ..what denomination is it >? Her answer was I dont know and I dont care ..they believe in Jesus thats all that matters... I was like WHAT ..you

Wow! Now that IS scary. I once heard a story about a minister who asked a woman if she was a Christian. She replied, "No. I'm a Presbyterian"

YIKES !

I could not believe it ...blows me away at how easy people are led ...thats why Cults are so good at what they do ..and thats why they are so big now ...its not hard to fool someone who just blindly follows .........

You're absolutely right about that!

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
Surely this takes a heavy toll on the family.

Actually, only if you let it. One of the first lectures in Freemasonry tells us that we are not to let the organization conflict with the duties we owe to those dependant upon us (family).

If I understand correctly a Masons' family is not part of the society. Is that correct?

While the basic Lodge degrees, etc. are for members only, most Lodges have quite a few family-related events (picnics, cook-outs, and so forth)

Can you at least talk to them about your activities so that they feel included?

Absolutely. Honestly, we can talk about just about anything pertaining to Freemasonry. It's really not all that secret and there are TONS of articles and books on the subject. We're quite a writing society.

I'm actually serious about these questions. People always seem to consider all the macro stuff, but life is a succession of small practicalities.

That's true. An Freemasonry varies so much from place to place, country to country, there is just so much that even the members don't know.

Thus I'm always interested in the practical details. I'll have some questions about catering later. Thanks for bearing with me.

Gladly!

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
Which is larger? 3 feet or 36 inches? Same kind of analogy for those who don't otherwise have a clue. Degrees that further enlighten the intermediate aspects of Freemasonry do not in and of themselves render one 'higher' than the holder of the main degree.

Excellently said, Fitzgibbon. And in the same light, belonging to a Masonic Lodge doesn't necessarily make one a Mason. Sure, they are Masons in name and they have current dues cards, but if they haven't leared anything from the degrees, or how to apply the lessons to everyday life, they've missed the point.

All these fine folks keep trying to make a point that Masonry is trying to control the world, when the fact of the matter is Masonry should control our individual self and thus, make us better than we were.

Too many just don't see that. Some simply don't care and want to wear the ring and hold the title.

Apak I really appreciate you being so kind and patient and so willing to stay calm with us ..See thats what is needed more around here ..

I am adding you as a friend and I am going to go and do my study and get back with you ..

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Apak I really appreciate you being so kind and patient and so willing to stay calm with us ..See thats what is needed more around here ..

I am adding you as a friend and I am going to go and do my study and get back with you ..

Why thank you. I'll do the same!

As far as the patience, there would be much more if more of the posters here wouldn't jump in and state things they've Googled as fact, point fingers at at others and tell them what they secretly believe or secretly worship and try to save their souls on-line.

Every person is an individual and can (or at least SHOULD) think for himself. More members of this forum should realize this.

Then, and only then, will there be intelligent discussion.

Thanks for your posts and genuine interest in learning. We can ALL learn from each other if we open our minds instead of our mouths.