theorized propulsion

Hi. I am a critical thinker, and sort of a Science as well as Science Fiction junky. After about 3 2-liters of Dew and very little sleep, I came up with a theory to possibly go faster than the speed of light with an abnormal propulsion system. This propulsion system would use electro magnets to create multiple fields going in diffrent directions. In my refined design, the vehicle would be shaped like a doughnut. These magnetic fields would manipulate plasma to go around the vehicle, much like a "gravity bubble", where the speed of the plasma against the vessel is moving at such a small rate that it may seem to not move at all. While the outer plasma is moving at such a great speed, it would seem to pull the vessel along. In this theory, the vessel would not really be moving -- But it would be moving the space around it at a great speed. This idea came to me as a shampoo bottle was picked up off the floor. The bubble of air seemed to not move but the liquid around it did move. The further from the the the bubble you looked, the faster the liquid moved around it. Now I have researched a few things into this. Like plasma, can be manipulated by magnetic energy. And another inspiration was the Bullet-Monorail in Japan. So with this theory, the vessel would never really touch the space that it's moving through, almost completely eliminating friction. And I have also theorized that the amount of power to acomplish this is almost inconceivable. So I looked into a new source of power that I have heard of, that scientists were planning on trying. Matter, anti-matter collision. Supposedly the collision of matter and anti-matter creates reactions in multiples larger than would be plausible with any other system. From what I have heard from an engineering pregrad, the reaction of one molecule could be compared to the power from a nuclear reacto,r without the longterm repercussions.

I wanted to get some of your scientific reactions to this theory.
And I would like to keep this as scientific as possible.

sounds like you have desribed a tokamak. check out what MIT is doing with it.

you might also check out Searl, Ralph Ring/Otis Carr, and a handful of others.

Really?? Do you have any information off-hand that I could look at? This has been a blossoming idea of mine for about 12 years.

Google it bro.... tokamak is a fusion reaction device.. I dont believe this is in anyway designed for propulsion, but it really sounds like what you describe.

The Searl Effect Generator is a "perpetual motion machine"... but there is alot of controversy about whether it really works.

Good thinking, but it would probably cost millions to develop a prototype. Those people at MIT could probably tell ya if the concept is feasible for propulsion

Originally posted by acewilliams
Really?? Do you have any information off-hand that I could look at? This has been a blossoming idea of mine for about 12 years.

this link should take you a week or two to get through. when you are done, let me know and i will give you some more stuff.

www.thelivingmoon.com...

MIT Plasma and Fusion Research Search for "Tokamak"

The TOKAMAK uses plasma, but in a verry different way. In the experiments they are using, the plasma as a catalyst to transfer energy and the original hopes were to multiply the energy. The design may be similar but would be used very differently. The plasma would not be used to conduct energy... hopefuly multiplying it, but only to move alone. The power source has nothing to do with the plasma. The plasma is moved by the magnetic fields, which are powered by another source. In no way am I thinking that this should multiply the energy used. Let me make reference to a record player. If the movement speed is monitored on the inside of a rotating record, it multiplies slower than the outside depending on the size. Now with this observation you see that it is a lot like a wheel. The outer area of the path used would have friction against the air, or just particles in space. In this way the friction of the plasma moving at a high speed would propell the vessel forward , backward, or with proper control in other directions much like a tracked vehicle.

I have done some research on plasma fusion, that is where I got the information that plasma can be manipulated by magnetics.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

See my post and the links in that thread.

The plasma torus you describe is like the one used in the TR-3B manmade UFO.

reply to post by XL5


Was thinking the same thing, look up the TR-3B and you'll see it has the characteristic you mention plus the added benefit of time dilation due to space/time warpage.

Obsidience

Nice post op, I have had similiar ideas. Must be the biomorophogenetic Field.

I have already designed such a system, and applied for patents.

a) Monoatomic elements are used... learn about their weight at different temperatures. Be impressed. But why?

b)Particle Accelerators in space? Well sort of... Guess why?

c) What happens when a particle is lighter at it's point of origin than it's point of Impact? Do you See where I am going?

c)What happens when you superheat a Monoatomic element? What happens when it is at absolute zero? How do these different states affect the element?


Answer these questions and you'll learn something profound.

Then it all starts to become obvious and you'll soon realize why you didn't figure it out sooner. Anyhow...


2. Now imagine that such a monoatomic "chain" was superheated before it was propelled whilst cooling on the way. We already know the mass is altered whilst the element is at different temperatures.
What law of thermodynamics? It is starting to sound more like a theory every day....



3. A Pearl Necklace... much better analogy and simple too.

Such chains are to be aligned within nanotubes made out of whatever material found to be the least reactive to the element you are using as your drive mechanism. These nanotubes are to be converted to plasma...

This is just one way of manipulating the mass of the elements contained within... and even then only in a very specific type of complex drive system.

Monoatomic elements will react and unpredictably, and when you are dealing with them in an individual capacity they cannot be reliably used for any such system here On earth.

These structures (dealt with in this capacity) are far from "Noble", and can only be applied with efficacy in one environment.


4.Imagine this... You string 13 baseballs together and attempt to throw them all by heaving the first one with all your might... after all 13 balls is hard to throw, and they are strung together, so it is quite hard for you to manage them... in this environment..

Suppose however, when you threw that first baseball in the chain of balls, the rest got up and followed it BUT you only had to exert enough force to throw the ONE baseball...

Similar things can happen... with monoatomic elements BUT only under certain conditions.

This is an simplified analogy, but it is important for us to know such information.

5. Plasma? Nanotubes?

guy must be nuts... but just how do you think this "chain" of monoatomic elements would reconfigure themselves in a plasma environment?

Answer this and you'll know why Plasma is preferable to ANY kind of metal vapours, gases or otherwise.

Magnets do play a role, just not primarily for containment and propulsion..

Think beside the box on this one guys...

First, magnetic waves move in accordance to there wave lengths.
Next the stronger the magnetic field the faster the rotation of particles
Using a power source to power and regulate power to giant electro magnets will not only propel the craft but also make it easer to control direction. Not to mention the possibility to reverse polarity and also reverse direction and possibly use for negative thrust.

As I said before this has been a baby of mine for the last 12 years, I don’t mind if some one else gets the credit for it but at this time I just think that the advancement needs to happen.

reply to post by acewilliams


Now imagine that the particles it was propelling ware lighter when they were fired than when they impact on a surface within the craft - as are monoatomic elements when they are hot.

And with Plasma serving to further align and maintain the particles in an excited state where they have less mass.

You would be tricking the universe into thinking you are lighter than you actually are and thus are better able to breach and approach the light-speed barrier - which is relative to your mass.

Even if the Universe thinks you are a fraction of a particle lighter than you are - entirely different rules apply to you.

You have 'Wiggle Room'
Now imagine you could fire millions of such particles per minute in a coherent stream - each one entangled with the rest and thus you are are required to provide enough force to propel one of them.... Just imagine the implications!


[edit on 18-8-2008 by TruthTellist]

I must say thank you, I just saw something I would have missed otherwise. Using hydrogen plasma would be the best way to power this vessel. Since plasma is best described as incomplete molecules if there was a chance that the power of the electro magnets fused some of the molecules it would change to helium witch would still be a viable component in the plasma. And if this plasma was super heated as you suggested it may even provide a little energy, but only in the vacuum of space. So you would be creating a controlled sun or with enough power possibly a controllable mini black whole. So this is the implication of warping space time while also being able to move...

reply to post by TruthTellist


Yes that was my first thought

the differences is in my theory I am tricking the universe that there only small particles moving and tricking physics of the cosmos that everything is only rippling around me as I stand still.

reply to post by acewilliams


How self-centered of you

If a particle within a vessel can impact within the vessel with the force that it would have impacted had it been moving at light speed or faster - then the whole vessel will shift at a faster than light speed, even though it may be imperceptible.

Like I say, imagine if you could do this millions of times per minute....

I think that we are seeing a different solution to the problem of propulsion. I am saying that the particles that are moving at light speed or faster are not ever touching the vessel but the particles touching the vessel according to the physics of the vessel are moving at possibly 1 inch every hour. Do you see what I see yet? It would be the first attempt at a gravity bubble.

reply to post by acewilliams


You see, I actually built this thing in the 70s as a government funded research experiment - prove of concept.. So I know it is possible.

We also discovered some interesting anomalies, and learned how to cause them:


"21. One of my designs faced several unforeseen problems.

It turned out that the system for monitoring and controlling particle discharge had to be wholly unmanned.

Even in proof of concept experiments, this was the case. It soon became apparent that we could not even have anyone in the same building who was aware of the nature of the experiments taking place. They in fact, had to leave the campus.

This anomaly persisted until we were made aware of the influence that we had over this experiment just by knowing about it and being in the vicinity of the tests.

We weren't even acting as an "observer," we were simply aware of the nature of the experiment.

We then concluded that such a system could only be possible if the "operational" controls were unmanned and the "pilots" completely unaware of the nature of the drive system they were using.

Such systems being highly complex and in need of constant re-adjustment and human attention, forced us to conclude that as a means of space travel, Humans aware of the nature of their engine would have to be at a minimum 1200 meters away from the device itself.

One earth, distances exceeding 400 meters would allow for the experiments to go ahead and the equipment to function as predicted.

This is was all hypothetical to a point, but nonetheless it was one of the conclusions drawn from this series of experiments.

Our hypothesis was not correct, but the observations and results were amazing. However, we considered the whole thing a success due to the startling discoveries that were made.

We merely included the reference to space travel (in our conclusion) as a possible use for such a device, and it wasn't until years later that I began refining the ideas for my own purposes."


[edit on 18-8-2008 by TruthTellist]

Are you saying that the natural electro magnetism of the human brain where enough to throw off the experiment? So just knowing that the drive was magnetic compelled the human brain to compensate for the differences in surrounding magnetic fields? Did any one try lead dampening to those that knew of the project??

reply to post by acewilliams


Nothing helped but either having a distance of 400m (for those in the know) or having a group of people ignorant to the nature of the experiment operate the machinery.

Used in a vessel, they pilots mustn't know anything about their engine and the engineer must be a good distance from it.

More quantum weirdness.