Sarkozy warns Russia: withdraw from South Ossetia or face the consequences

reply to post by tamar.kh85


Absolutely!!! I've been making the Chechan comparison since this conflict started (see my previous posts on other threads) and it has been conveniently overlooked by Western media. Russia are guilty of blind hypocrisy, they were guilty of extreme war crimes against their "break away" region, yet claim "war crimes" as their reason for intervention in Georgia. Truth is it had nothing to do with the break away region, it was an excuse and opportunity to weaken a US ally on their doorstep.

reply to post by Sky watcher

Gates was right by saying what he said because what Russia says is utterly stupid. You don't threaten a country with nukes for wanting to be able to defend itself.

A missle defence is no defense of Poland, merely the US, and if it does come to conflict the Poland will probably not be backed by the US.

This may be a stupid question but what is the tie between Poland and Georgia? I guess I missed something because I don't understand what Poland hosting the missile shield has to do with Georgia occupying S. Ossetia... My apologies

Missile Launchers Tighten Russia’s Grip on Georgia
www.nytimes.com...

who know what is going on?

Originally posted by welivefortheson
The russian army is nothing to really worry about in terms of technology and equipment.most of it is from the 70's and beyond.

Umm, no...

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...(missile)
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by The_Alarmist2012
well ..if the russians are not going to launch missles at anyone why put missle defense up in poland?

reply to post by The_Alarmist2012


i'll put the reason why we would mop the floor with russia very simply...


we spend many times more on our military (not including black budget operations) than EVERY OTHER country in the world does COMBINED.

that is why we are known as the most powerful country in the world. that is whay we can get away with meddling in everyone's affairs.

because other countries simply aren;t dumb enough to provoke us into a full, balls out war... there is no hope in going to war with the US.

now, go ahead and try to use Iraq and an example of us not totally domiating in everything we do, but know this. we have spent the entire war with the gloves on, give us 1 day to take them off, and this war would be over.

You've got to laugh! Sarkozy warning the Russians to pull out of Georgia or else is a bit of an empty threat Isn't it? Russia, like everyone else in the civilised world knows full well that when the first shot is fired the French will be running off in the other direction.

reply to post by The_Alarmist2012


It might be speculation and conjecture on your part, but I think you are very close to the truth...

We may not have pulled the BFG out of the bag yet, but that is because we have not had to as of now. If the U.S. finds itself backed in a corner with no way out, I find it very plausible that we have something ready for that moment.

It will be a catch 22 though, since we will reveal a new type of weapon to save our ass, but also demonstrate to the world we have technology they don't...and have for some time.

Then the questions start...

Disclosure may begin with chaos...

Originally posted by SRTkid86
we spend many times more on our military (not including black budget operations) than EVERY OTHER country in the world does COMBINED.

that is why we are known as the most powerful country in the world. that is whay we can get away with meddling in everyone's affairs.

Money invested != supremacy.

You need to have more than just ''invested money'' to win a war.
And even if you got the max out of that investment, and all other factors are good, you still need the proper tools to win the war.

Having a gazillion high-tech vehicles means nothing if we get nuclear winter.

[edit on 18/8/08 by -0mega-]

Originally posted by SRTkid86
reply to post by The_Alarmist2012

 

i'll put the reason why we would mop the floor with russia very simply...


we spend many times more on our military (not including black budget operations) than EVERY OTHER country in the world does COMBINED.

that is why we are known as the most powerful country in the world. that is whay we can get away with meddling in everyone's affairs.

because other countries simply aren;t dumb enough to provoke us into a full, balls out war... there is no hope in going to war with the US.

now, go ahead and try to use Iraq and an example of us not totally domiating in everything we do, but know this. we have spent the entire war with the gloves on, give us 1 day to take them off, and this war would be over.

Carpet bombing the country is the only way that one could do what you suggest in one day, and that is not "winning the war". Don't be stupid. That's just killing everyone who was lucky enough to be born there. Just because we have the most well-funded military in history doesn't mean we can fight a war on a million fronts. We'd spread ourselves too thin. And even if we had the backing of every other nation on earth, Russia has a sufficient number of nukes to turn the land on this planet into a collection of glass craters. Like, ALL of the land.

That is why war with Russia is unwinnable. That is why war with ANYBODY who has nukes is unwinnable. Because eventually, they will be in a position so desperate they will use them.

reply to post by -0mega-


nobody will be launching nukes, i don't see why this is so hard to understand, they understood this 40 and 50 yeras ago. why is everyone thinking things have changed so much now?

the fact is that if we went to war with russia, they would be as afraid of us nuking them, as we would be of them nuking us. they understand the implications of an attack like that, and besides that we have HAARP on our side.

we are the only country in the history of man kind to use nuclear weapons, and we have the fear, and "respect" of all other countries because of that, they know that when push comes to shove, we ultimately don't have a problem turning your little town into nothing more than a bunch of shadows burnt into the pavement.

money invested does indeed = supremacy, it would be the equivalent of the US air craft strking at the alien motherships in Independance day. when you have a HUGE technological lead on the opponent it's going to make the difference. and let's be honest hear, Russia is NOT what they are trying to talk them selves up to be. they have had virtually NO money for how long? and they are supposed to what? make military advancements with no money, and nothing to back themselves? let's face it, they are just now coming out of a very long hibernation and have QUITE a ways to go before they are ready to go toe to toe with the might of the US and it's even more mighty military. this is no fanciful thinking because im American, it's a fact.

i really am sorry that you live you life in fear that russia will nuke us, if they were going to do it, it would have been done A LONG TIME AGO, when there old rusty nuclear arsenal was not old outdated technology, that actually poses VERY little REAL threat to our country.

reply to post by '___'eviant


im sorry, but if you carpet bomb the country you are currently fighting in, and you wipe everything out, technically you did win the war.

what im saying is that we have had the gloves on this entire time, and if we took them off we could make very short work of just about any enemy.

i understand we can't be spread too thin, and that we can't sustain another war, and im not advocating going to war with anyone else, i would hate that. but what im saying is that i wouldn't be too terribly scared if it did indeed happen. you can throw all the cannon fodder at us that you want, but in the end that is that they have, cannon fodder.

Originally posted by SRTkid86
nobody will be launching nukes, i don't see why this is so hard to understand, they understood this 40 and 50 yeras ago. why is everyone thinking things have changed so much now?

It was a hypothetical situation.
If a nuke is launched, a tank will not stop it. Rock Paper Scissors. (Well, a bit more complicated but still.)

Originally posted by SRTkid86
money invested does indeed = supremacy, it would be the equivalent of the US air craft strking at the alien motherships in Independance day. when you have a HUGE technological lead on the opponent it's going to make the difference.

It != supremacy.
So in a hypothetical situation. If I had a billion dollars / euros whatever, and I invested it in war tech, I would instantly win a war?

Would I not need to:
o *Get something out of it!?* (Investment does NOT equal ''supremacy'' until it actually pays off)
o Have people to be well-trained, but most of all, well-WILLED to go to battle, and well-versed in the use of acquired equipment?

There are more than enough examples of investments into projects that fail because they reached a dead-end in the end.

But you are right: HUGE technology difference makes a difference. After all throwing sticks and stones at a tank won't stop it.

But Russia isn't fighting with sticks and stones, far from it.

Originally posted by SRTkid86
i really am sorry that you live you life in fear that russia will nuke us, if they were going to do it, it would have been done A LONG TIME AGO, when there old rusty nuclear arsenal was not old outdated technology, that actually poses VERY little REAL threat to our country.

Have you been to Russia, have you seen everything they do or do not have?
As far as I know you're just speculating on what you know, or think to know.
But of course you have your sources that spread information about their latest tech, precise *REAL* numbers, soldier skill and mental capacity in battle?


Investment is not everything SRTkid, no matter how much you believe it to be.

Tactics, Strategy, Morale, Numbers, Environment, many many things calculate into whether you win or lose a war.

It's not about who has the biggest tank, it's about who can utilize his resources the best, and with utilizing resources I mean more than ''spending money''.

[edit on 18/8/08 by -0mega-]

reply to post by kacou


For your signature, it should in fact read:

Si jeunesse savait et si vieillesse pouvait?

The longer this gets talked about, the more information gets thrown into the thick of things and get confused and minipulated. The russian people have never caused any problems to anyone else, it seems that everyone is trying to give them a bad name. Apart from the recent story, russia have kept to themselves, never heard a thing from them. I respect that but now they are being brought into something they do not want to be part of. Media like to mix stories up, stop confusing the situation. Let russia be and let them sort it out between them. Stop bringing inocent people into this mixture of lies!

One more thing. Why is it us as citizens of our contries allow these few men and women to make decisions for us, are we really that soft. We sit back while people control our lives. Their are millions of us inocent people and only a few controlling us. This has nothing to do with what i am talking about. This stands for the WHOLE world!

As soon as Russian tanks crossed the border into Georgia proper, the U.S. should have dropped the 82nd Airborne into Georgia to reinforce the Georgian forces and give them some anti-tank capability. Then gain air supremecy...which wouldn't be too tough against Russia's 1980's technology aircraft. Then move the 101st in there with their Apaches and tell Russia they have 72 hours to fully withdraw their forces into Russia or they'll start losing it. When 72 hours has passed, destroy every Russian armored vehicle still within Georgia's borders.

The Russia of today is not the Soviet Union....they are a shadow of what they used to be. Like any school yard bully, they need their nose bloodied.

Sarkozy, what you gonna do, nuke russia? Russia can put a nuke in every acre of your land and blow your French ass off the face of the Earth, and the U.S. ain't gonna help ya. Sanctioning wouldn't do much as if Russia wasn't already bad enough.

Scare tactics, no even scare tactics, Sarkozy wasn't even trying to scare Russia, he was trying to show loyalty to his Westerners, to his debilitated intelligent Westerners.

Georgia provoked this attack with lies through the Western media.
OMG WE SHOT DOWN SOVIET BOMBERS. THEY WERE OBVIOUSLY TRYING TO KILL US. NOW WERE GOING TO PROTECT OURSELVES BY LAUNCHING MISSILES AT THEM.


je sais que les francais ne sont pas tres intelligent pendant the presidency of Nicholas Sarkozy.

[edit on 8/18/2008 by die_another_day]

Sarkozy is a neocon puppet.

Nobody listens to what he has to say except other NeoCons and news organizations.

I feel that this whole fiasco over in Georgia could have been avoided if our military wasn't stretched so thin. We consider Georgia an Ally and we are sponsoring them in to NATO. The reason we were doing that is to have a close launching pad to fight Iran and keep an eye on Russia. I feel that Bush, being a war monger himself, dropped the ball and let this situation happen in the big global game of Risk they all play with our lives. There should have been an end to the Afghanistan situation by now freeing up troop to protect us and our Allies.

WW3 is in full effect and Newt said it would happen.