Sarkozy warns Russia: withdraw from South Ossetia or face the consequences

The russian army is nothing to really worry about in terms of technology and equipment.most of it is from the 70's and beyond.

i read an article detailing their level of weaponisation and thier damn shoddy,most recruits train with weapons their grandfathers used to use.the government tend to spend its money in manufacturing equipment to export to foriegn nations and militias for the ideology of profit as opposed to national defence.

the old bear still aint what it used to be,i see this all as a method of political manouvering,at home and abroad.at home the seek to rally the people behind them via a common enemy within the context of a war.
abroad they are showing people they mean buisiness by picking on a nation that had 9 working fighter jets and a similiar number of ships!.also i believe the russian military is seeking to re instate its importance by pushing for a war in which it will attain increased funding and resources,
lastly since they are now the worlds biggest exporter of oil,and the power structures of the nation are comprised of oligarchs,they are also seeking to drive the up the price of oil and liquified gas to europe as all the major pipelines into europe come from russia via georgia and the ukraine!.

reply to post by welivefortheson


Nothing to worry about, you read an article... etc.

I appreciate the input, but how can we be sure that what you are saying is true without some supportive evidence.

Everyone seems to have the perception that Russia's military is some backward, broken down, 1970s relic from the past, and is no threat to anyone.

Is that perception only, is it the result of propaganda, assumptions, conjecture, or facts.

If it is facts I'd like to see someone post some.

Seriously, how can we know we are not underestimating this "enemy" without facts?

reply to post by welivefortheson

i see this all as a method of political manouvering,at home and abroad.at home the seek to rally the people behind them via a common enemy within the context of a war.

I did a double take to see if you were talking about Russia or the US. 'War on Terror' (common enemy), taking on the SuperPower Iraq, etc,etc.....

Russia's military isnt a great as some folks on ehere think and its not as bad as some folks on here think. Its probably somewhere in between with a blend of old and new technology. Bottom line is that it doesnt really matter because they still have nukes. You could never fight and push them but so far because of that. Both sides know this.

Originally posted by princeofpeace
Russia's military isnt a great as some folks on ehere think and its not as bad as some folks on here think. Its probably somewhere in between with a blend of old and new technology. Bottom line is that it doesnt really matter because they still have nukes. You could never fight and push them but so far because of that. Both sides know this.

Okay since we are going with public perceptions and opinions ... How about this....

What if the USA has between secret space weaponry, missile defense weaponry, and overall military superiority came to the conclusion that they can 95% neutralize Russia's capabilities to launch nukes?

Then find ways to provoke them, make them make the first moves, and then BAM, take em out.

Of course that is just speculation and conjecture on my part.

Or is it?

At the end of the day here, the best that we can all hope for is that both the United States and Russia will back down from insane military objectives globally, and move more toward a diplomatic course. They can't take the world back in time, they can't stop the future, but they can if they continue, hurt a lot of innocent people.

Have we learned anything here, or was this entire thread a waste of time?


Goodnight, and good luck.

Makes me wonder how far along the missile shield has really come,the U.S knows Russia has Nukes and could annihilate the U.S with a full scale attack and vis-versa ......the way the U.S keeps poking at Russia it's almost like there not afraid anymore.I know the way the U.S lets on that the current missile shield would have a hard time blocking just a couple of long range missiles but I also know the U.S would probably keep a lot of the missile shield program classified.

Could it be the U.S has a way to block an all out nuclear exchange?Possibly with technology we don't know about?

France is correct.Russia must withdraw all their military forces from Georgia proper.International military force and observers sent into South ossetia and georgia.The West stands united against Russian aggression.

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012

Originally posted by princeofpeace
Russia's military isnt a great as some folks on ehere think and its not as bad as some folks on here think. Its probably somewhere in between with a blend of old and new technology. Bottom line is that it doesnt really matter because they still have nukes. You could never fight and push them but so far because of that. Both sides know this.

Okay since we are going with public perceptions and opinions ... How about this....

What if the USA has between secret space weaponry, missile defense weaponry, and overall military superiority came to the conclusion that they can 95% neutralize Russia's capabilities to launch nukes?

Then find ways to provoke them, make them make the first moves, and then BAM, take em out.

Of course that is just speculation and conjecture on my part.

Or is it?

No, not conjecture... you have it right, that's what's freaking the russians out...

we have electronic and other measures that can stop most ICBMs, mainly via frying the timinmg systems that cause detonation...

The missile defense system scares them because it will work against the small number of Nukes that are shielded against those kind of attacks... the Russians know that they would have to go in and refit the entire missile system of all their nukes or at least very large numbers of them beyond the 1-3% maybe that are shielded now... if we get that missile defense system in place...

Originally posted by thecry
Makes me wonder how far along the missile shield has really come,the U.S knows Russia has Nukes and could annihilate the U.S with a full scale attack and vis-versa ......the way the U.S keeps poking at Russia it's almost like there not afraid anymore.I know the way the U.S lets on that the current missile shield would have a hard time blocking just a couple of long range missiles but I also know the U.S would probably keep a lot of the missile shield program classified.

Could it be the U.S has a way to block an all out nuclear exchange?Possibly with technology we don't know about?

Yeah as above... very sensitive thing... the detonation process of a nuke, systems along the lines of haarp can stop them... this is why we deviated frpm starwars and a lot of what our black budget actually is

It woulkd hit them electronically...emp, microwave... over huge areas while ascending...

which means we would be able to identify their shielded missiles as they would remain on a proper flight route, Russia simply doesn't have the money to refit ...opr the time to refit enough missiles...

Traditional defense systems like a missile or a lazer hitting a missile are very difficult to make work... they could only be used against small numbers of missiles...

Russia has...very few shielded missiles

Putin wasn't fooled by Bushs asserting that this was for NK or Iran... they know we have this technology and have developed it...

The Russians have it too, but don't have such wide spread use of it, really it's just antennas you can place the system outside say it's a cell phone tower and never be able to identify it...

We are literally draped with the system 5 x over in a literal overkill

We are cocky as heck... because we know we will loose maybe a few cities maybe none in a nuclear exchange...

Russia hasn't cared until now because even 80 shielded nukes getting through could destroy Europe and America...

But set up a system that eliminates those and... good bye MAD

Not such a big deal to talk about this because...

Russia by their actions has obviously figured this all out already

The west will not have a direct confrontation with Russia.
All what you hear is propaganda.
The biggest problem for the west is that Russia is distancing it self from the financial institution of the west.
For good reason because of past war in Europe all links to financial institution creating those wars (Read “Le Choix de la Defaite” by . Annie Lacroiz-Riz)
Now no one will move a finger to Russia because cleverly this later had acquired an extensive western financial portfolio for the last decade.
Like Gorbachev said, this event is all about controlling the Caspian sea energy resources.
Further more, if Gorbachev allied behind the Russian action then you can be sure that many other in Europe will.
Again we only heard discontents voices from few European leaders, but did you heard what the German Chancellor said in the joint press conference with the Russian president: “I can understand why Russia did what they did” .
The same financial dark forces that instigated the last world war is now at work for a new one.
If any one can read French I highly recommend the book that I have mention earlier.

Kacou.

To add to my previous post:
www.worldreports.org...
it is only about money and financial power…if people are so doomed to see it for what it is then maybe we all deserve a WW3.

Kacou.

I find all these vage threats being made by TPTB to be laughable it's clear to me that they thought they were dealing with the Russian army of the 90's now that they know that is no longer the case they issue threats hoping that the Russians will play along and lose face at home.The Russians are gonna stay in Georgia for awhile.

Quick update before heading off to work...

Pledging to Leave Georgia, Russia Tightens Its Grip

www.nytimes.com...

WASHINGTON — Even as Russia pledged to begin withdrawing its forces from neighboring Georgia on Monday, American officials said the Russian military had been moving launchers for short-range ballistic missiles into South Ossetia, a step that appeared intended to tighten its hold on the breakaway territory.

The Russian military deployed several SS-21 missile launchers and supply vehicles to South Ossetia on Friday, according to American officials familiar with intelligence reports. From the new launching positions north of Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian capital, the missiles can reach much of Georgia, including Tbilisi, the capital.

The Kremlin announced Sunday that Russia’s president, Dmitri A. Medvedev, had promised to begin the troop withdrawal in a conversation with President Nicolas Sarkozy of France, who negotiated a six-point cease-fire agreement. Mr. Medvedev did not specify the pace or scope of the withdrawal, saying only that troops would withdraw to South Ossetia and a so-called security zone on its periphery.

Seems like the threats are working,



[edit on 18-8-2008 by The_Alarmist2012]

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
Quick update before heading off to work...

Pledging to Leave Georgia, Russia Tightens Its Grip

www.nytimes.com...

WASHINGTON — Even as Russia pledged to begin withdrawing its forces from neighboring Georgia on Monday, American officials said the Russian military had been moving launchers for short-range ballistic missiles into South Ossetia, a step that appeared intended to tighten its hold on the breakaway territory.

The Russian military deployed several SS-21 missile launchers and supply vehicles to South Ossetia on Friday, according to American officials familiar with intelligence reports. From the new launching positions north of Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian capital, the missiles can reach much of Georgia, including Tbilisi, the capital.

The Kremlin announced Sunday that Russia’s president, Dmitri A. Medvedev, had promised to begin the troop withdrawal in a conversation with President Nicolas Sarkozy of France, who negotiated a six-point cease-fire agreement. Mr. Medvedev did not specify the pace or scope of the withdrawal, saying only that troops would withdraw to South Ossetia and a so-called security zone on its periphery.

Seems like the threats are working,

[edit on 18-8-2008 by The_Alarmist2012]

Hurm,The Russians are simply setting up thier security zone around O.S. just in case that idiot in Tbilisi gets any "ideas".

reply to post by The_Alarmist2012


I do not understand western countries foreign policy. Chechens begged the US and Europe in 1991 and 1999 , just to provide them with stingers and weapons against tanks, plus afew millions of dollars to bribe Russian soldiers and generals, and they promised to reach Moscow in a few weeks and kick the butt of drunk Yeltsin and Putin after that, and to handover Russia to the west as a gift. Insted of helping Chechens to control all the caucasus and secure the already existing oil pipelines and the planned ones, the west betrayed Chechens and plotted with Russians against Chechnya's president Dzhokhar Dudayev , and succeeded in assainating him by providing Russians with CIA -Sat data of his exact location, through Mossad. After that , CIA, Mossad and Russian Intelligence Agency infiltrated the Arab -Afghan Mujahideen into Chechnya to control the Chechen fighters, in afew months, they succeeded in changing the military tactics of Chechen fighters to terrorist tactics, then the whole world changed its opinion about Chechens fight to gain their freedom and inependenc from Russia, and the western main-stream media started to call chechen freedom fighters-Islamic Chechen terrorists.

If the US and Europe in 1991 assisted natural-born Chechen fighters in their war against Russia, today the West wouldn't waste their money on Georgian unqualified soldiers, who fled from the war zone leaving a huge arsenal of american modern weapns as a gift for Russians.

The real problem of the west, specially Western Europe, they can not forget that Arabs and Turks ruled them for more than 10 centuries, so they couldn't trust muslim chechens, instead they gave their keys to christian Russians forgetting Lenin, stalin...etc, forgetting the cold war, forgetting communism, forgetting the Russian crimes against caucasus and eastern european countries for a half century.

So the result: Russia in 2008 threatens to nuke Georgia and Poland , next week London and Paris, after that Newyork and LosAngeles......who is the stupid now????!!!!

reply to post by mike dangerously


Maybe, or maybe not?

Georgia: 'No Signs' Of Withdrawal

skynews.com

Russian troops are heading deeper into Georgian territory despite a pledge from Moscow that its forces would start withdrawing.

Georgia's foreign affairs ministry said that the troops were moving south from the central city of Kashuri towards Borjomi and Sachkhere.

Russia promised to start pulling out at midday Moscow time after a war that has dealt a humiliating blow to the US ally and raised fears for fuel supplies to Europe.

But Georgia's interior ministry spokesman Shota Utiashvili said: "Unfortunately, we see no signs that the Russians are starting to pull out or even preparing to withdraw from Georgia."

Sky News' Russia correspondent Alex Rossi, speaking from just outside Gori, said: "There is no real sign of a withdrawal so it is difficult to understand what is going on with the Russians.

"It seems they want to withdraw on their terms."

Off to work, have a nice day.

[edit on 18-8-2008 by The_Alarmist2012]

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
reply to post by chips

 

Actually the words he used were "empty rhetoric" which is both a direct insult and clear provocation to Russian leaders and military commanders.

Simply put... an incredibly stupid and asinine thing to say.

Perhaps some will see the clear prodding and outright provocations going on here, the mystery is WHY?

I don't see Robert Gate's comments anywhere near as provocative or insane as the threat of military action against Poland by Russia. In fact Robert Gates comments were entirely sensible. Giving credence to such inflamatory remarks not only serve to escalate an already tense situation but also create unecessary further instability to the region and the world as a whole.

reply to post by mike dangerously


I wonder why Georgia and the west did not link between Russian-Chechen conflict an Georgean-Russian conflict???

When Russia thereatens Georgia to assist Abkhazia and South-Osetia to gain their independence, Georgia should do the same by threatning to support chechen fighters in their fight for independence from Russia. Eorope and the US , specially UKraine, could play a big role in putting pressure on Russia by providing Chechen with weapons and money to distract Russians from attacking Georgia throug Ossetia an Abkhazia.

When Russia threatens to use the nukes, Europe and America should do the same because they have more nukes than Russia and western nukes are more effeicient and accurate than Russian rusty old nukes. Even a child knows that nukes will be obsolete in this war, as in the cold war, for 50 years , no one dared to use nukes , the same will happen in this war also, because Russia is also frightened from western nukes. So why are you westerners so cowards, whenever Russia threatens you you loose your focus and start to retreat and beg coward russian for forgiveness.