Yea you see, the bible does support killing
I jest I jest. I am not very religous, I just like to pick and choose what I feel is noble from any faith. Thats called freedom.

In any case, I would like to meet you halfway thestev, but we are not discussing "WHAT IF'S" here. This is a clear and cut situation. That is why many cases in today's system drag out for years with appeals and long sentences. However unfortunate the loss of many years behind bars is, people are proven innocent and set free every year. Those are typically cases with few witnesses and little evidence to be able to definetly land a conviction on nay given suspect.

What we have here, is at least 20 witnesses, and at least half a dozen Law Enforcement Officers, who saw a man play hack n slash with a little Dash® on an innocent bystander on public transit. You also have the prime suspect here demanding that he die.

The case for this man is closed as far as the law is concerned.

We can argue what if's until the apocolypse, but it will only serve to stifle progress.

[edit on 8/5/2008 by DYepes]

Originally posted by DYepes
What we have here, is at least 20 witnesses, and at least half a dozen Law Enforcement Officers, who saw a man play hack n slash with a little Dash® on an innocent bystander on public transit. You also have the prime suspect here demanding that he die.
The case for this man is closed as far as the law is concerned.

Uhhh...didn't this happen in Canada? Does Canada even have the death penalty? I don't think so.

If they DID have the death penalty the issue would probably still be there, even in the U.S. they do not execute prisoners that are defined as insane.

Classic Schizophrenia;
I'd already diagnosed this on the day it happened. Normal people don't function like this. This man was obviously sick. The fact that he carried a knife will show that he was constantly living in a paranoid state of mind, and reality and his dementia were overlapping into each other until this day, where he could no longer distingiush reality from what most commonly manifests as auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions or disorganized speech and thinking in the context of significant social or occupational dysfunction. Further more the close proximity to his victim is also a definate sign of his immediate mental dysfunction, it would have been more confusing if he got up, went to the front of the bus and attacked and killed the bus driver, but the fact that he lashed out at the nearest person, i.e. his seat mate, completes this. This is why he did not get a 1st degree murder charge, he was probably motivated by something beyond his control. Getting up and attacking and or killing the bus driver would have been pre-meditated, with the goal of causing harm to the bus passengers on a whole, an attempt to hijack the bus, to make a statement, etc. How ever he saw this person in his mind drove him to lash out at him. He could have seen him as a deamon, he could have seen him as food/animal, he could have thought this person was talking to him for hours, when in reality not a word or two was probably said between them...

-If and when drugs were ingested by this man in his deteriorating mental state, this could and probably will come out that it was a trigger for this psychotic episode.

-The people that allowed this to happen, are the last Psycho Ward he was in...

Find out and fire them...

This person obviously should NOT have been on a bus full of people...




[edit on 8/5/2008 by Brainiac]

[edit on 8/5/2008 by Brainiac]

The answer is D, all of the above. See its pumping thousands and thousands of dollars to prolongue this mans suffering for the sole purpose of feeling having done the "noble thing" that is messing up our society.

I know Canada does not have the death penalty, that was why my first post stated he is mocking the judicial system, at least that is the way I see it whether he is insane or not. The insanity loophole was put into effect for good actors with money to get away with crimes. I mean even if a person was insane honestly, what purpose does pumping him full of expensive drugs and keeping him on watch serve? It is redundant and wasteful.

You are still keeping the man away from society, except you are paying thousands upon thousands for some noble cause of self righteousness. If it does take fifteen eyars and you eventually rehabilitate the man, what purpose has it served? there was no justice for the family, and the man is still a danger that has to be watched.

sometimes, it is ok to do the merciful thing, especially in such a twisted case as this.

Originally posted by DYepes
I know Canada does not have the death penalty, that was why my first post stated he is mocking the judicial system, at least that is the way I see it whether he is insane or not.

I do not think he is mocking anything. He is nuts, he is traumatized, he is hardly speaking and when he does speak he probably says whatever he feels.

I honestly can't imagine how anyone can say this guy was NOT insane. If he wanted to chop someone up and eat them he could have grabbed someone off the street and had a prayer of not getting caught. He was obviously nuts, he acted in a completely irrational way. Plus he was held in a mental institution!

The problem as I see it is this:

You're not a judge nor a jury, so you can't say he's guilty
You're not a doctor or a medical professional, so you can't say he's sick
So all that's left is the fact that he asked to die, and lots of people do that.

The insanity loophole was put into effect for good actors with money to get away with crimes. I mean even if a person was insane honestly, what purpose does pumping him full of expensive drugs and keeping him on watch serve? It is redundant and wasteful.

Do you honestly believe this is the reason that the insanity defense was created?

What purpose does pumping him full of drugs and keeping him on watch serve? It preserves the sanctity of life for the more vulnerable members of our society (ie the mentally ill).

What purpose does killing him serve, other than to save money? That seems a pretty callous reason to take a human life doesn't it? Perhaps we should just kill 5 or so of the world's richest people, then we'd be covered and wouldn't have to kill anyone else for ages.

Or is it honestly to 'end his suffering'? I've got some bad news, the vast majority of human life is suffering, so someone might as well just wipe us all out right now.

Originally posted by DYepesI mean even if a person was insane honestly, what purpose does pumping him full of expensive drugs and keeping him on watch serve? It is redundant and wasteful.

And realize that RIGHT THERE was probably a contributing factor. Instead of keeping obvously insane and possibly dangerous people in institutions they are often thrown back out onto the street in part to save money. This has happened so many times, they will not hold people that need to be held and then those people go out and kill someone.

I don't know how bad the problem is in Canada, but it is pretty bad in the U.S. and it is often financially driven.

i have served on a jury, and I could very well become a Judge if I wanted to go that career path.

nobody needs to be a doctor to clearly see the threat he poses to innocent people, whether he is insane or not. Whatever, you guys keep him alive up there, and pray for the best. I live in a Stand your ground State and I own a firearm. if there is a copycat in my community and I happen to be witness to it, I will take upon the duty and dispatch the criminal myself. However, I don't own a firearm I can actually carry in the streets, but for that I have my 22 inch machete in my SUV. I will say this, if this man had done this on the bus I was on, I would not have run like a coward and watch this innocent person die. I do carry a knife on me sometimes, and can fight a good fight.

Thank God something like this has not happened in public in Tampa for many years. But rest assured. sonia and stev, I wont allow any other man hurt yall if we are all on the same bus together. Of course you would be calling me the criminal then I am sure.

Originally posted by Sonya610

Originally posted by DYepesI mean even if a person was insane honestly, what purpose does pumping him full of expensive drugs and keeping him on watch serve? It is redundant and wasteful.

And realize that RIGHT THERE was probably a contributing factor. Instead of keeping obvously insane and possibly dangerous people in institutions they are often thrown back out onto the street in part to save money. This has happened so many times, they will not hold people that need to be held and then those people go out and kill someone.

I don't know how bad the problem is in Canada, but it is pretty bad in the U.S. and it is often financially driven.

-Well it doesn't exactly work out like that. The rules are set that if you don't commit yourself you can't be held...

-You CAN be held if an act has been commited to lead the belief that you have a mental dysfunction. Unfortunately it's to late at this point as we can see.

-Antipsychotic drugs; these actually would have prevented him from acting out this severely... One case I personally witnessed first hand was a woman that would think that she or someone she knew was going to die whenever she heard a Car horn or a phone ring, so her reaction was to damage the car in question or her own car, and at one time crashing her car as a way to break the probability in her mind. The drugs she needs supressed this and allows her to live somewhat normally, or course she insists nothing is wrong with her, and she can function and interact seemingly normally... She also has a cronic fear of germs, all but her own...
-She is in and out of Clinical Depression, dispite the fact that the person that cared for her, left her a large sum of money and a small portion of land.

Originally posted by DYepes
i have served on a jury, and I could very well become a Judge if I wanted to go that career path.

nobody needs to be a doctor to clearly see the threat he poses to innocent people, whether he is insane or not. Whatever, you guys keep him alive up there, and pray for the best. I live in a Stand your ground State and I own a firearm. if there is a copycat in my community and I happen to be witness to it, I will take upon the duty and dispatch the criminal myself. However, I don't own a firearm I can actually carry in the streets, but for that I have my 22 inch machete in my SUV. I will say this, if this man had done this on the bus I was on, I would not have run like a coward and watch this innocent person die. I do carry a knife on me sometimes, and can fight a good fight.

Thank God something like this has not happened in public in Tampa for many years. But rest assured. sonia and stev, I wont allow any other man hurt yall if we are all on the same bus together. Of course you would be calling me the criminal then I am sure.

"nobody needs to be a doctor to clearly see the threat he poses to innocent people, whether he is insane or not."

-Well you see that's the danger, you don't want to make the wrong assumption. There is a difference between a motivated criminal and a mentally disturbed individual.

-Actually you do need to have insight into wheter he is a danger or not. On the bus he seemed quiet but totally normal. When you say nobody needs to be a doctor to clearly see the threat he poses, well this is why he needed to be commited, at the point he acts out, that's the point of no return, you'd want to prevent the victim becoming a victim, and the sick person from commiting the "reaction" which by that I mean a reaction to himself, it's hard to say crime, you could say attack. He was reacting to his own mind.

-Another incident, was a woman who with a college back ground would go to resturants and feel that the resturant was trying to poison her, by serving her cold food, of course the food would be hot, and served at one point to her with steam curling off of it, freshly prepared...
She had a confused look on her face that would go from content to frustrated, and back again. Almost displaying a mental battle for sanity going on invisibly... She would end up with police being called because everytime she would begin to leave the resturants after they could not satisfy her, she would turn around and come back and state that she was not stupid and knew what they were trying to do to her, and question why they were doing this to her.

Scary stuff...


[edit on 8/5/2008 by Brainiac]

You talk about the beheader as if he were the victim here?

What about the beheadee who died gruesomly, unexpected. who had family who cared, who was the VICTIM?

The hell with the evil perpetrator of this heinous crime. He needs to be put out of his misery, shot , killed, beheaded slowly,

The victim here was an innocent man.

As you stated Brainiac, he has already done the need. And now, whether or not he is sick, he needs to be dispatched. clearly he is a danger considering what he did. Most people dont even play like that with their food or toys!

He used an innocent human being and craved him upp like some kind of clay doll that could just be stripped into pieces. Why? I dont really think it is that important anymore, he did what he did and the threat to humanity needs to be removed.

But I suppose if Canada wants to waste money holding out hope and trying to maintain the appearance of beinh noble and righteous, do what you do. Just make sure this guy does never escape into the States ok? our officers will most likely shoot him as he resists arrest with his hands in the air.

I don’t think either a judge nor jury are really needed to determine if he is guilty or not.

This is one of the most terrifying things I've read in a long time. Innocent until proven guilty man, not innocent until it guilt seems pretty obvious.

And let's be clear about the difference between guilt in terms of 'he did what they say he did' and legal guilt. Legal guilt requires a reasonable self-awareness of the actions being taken. This, and not some celebrity cop-out, is the reason for the insanity defense.

DYepes, I'm glad you have served on a jury, but that doesn't make you a jury. Neither does being capable of becoming a judge make you a judge. I'm sure I could become a judge too if I set my mind to that career path. I'm still young enough to get through the schooling and still have a career ahead of me.

So we've added a fourth reason for killing him it seems. Because he poses a threat. You see, that is different to being ill. Someone can pose a threat because they are ill, but they can also pose a threat because they are ill. And unfortunately, one does have to be a doctor to determine if someone poses a threat. Otherwise you could commit every ex-girlfriend who ever pissed you off.

I appreciate the strength of everyone's opinions. But I personally don't believe that doctors, lawyers and judges have the right to decide who lives and dies. I sure as hell don't believe that a bunch of people speculating on a forum have that right.

Originally posted by dgtempe
You talk about the beheader as if he were the victim here?

What about the beheadee who died gruesomly, unexpected. who had family who cared, who was the VICTIM?

The hell with the evil perpetrator of this heinous crime. He needs to be put out of his misery, shot , killed, beheaded slowly,

The victim here was an innocent man.

It's hard to see past what happened to the Victim of course. It was tragic...

I was just telling you the world the attacker lived in.

Wouldn't you like to see/know why this happened? Other than just thinking that there are evil monsters out in the world. It's more comforting to me to understand HOW someone could do this, but that's just me.

Unfortunately the Victim and the Attacker were both Victims, one of his own mind, the other of the attackers mind.