Stev, I am sorry, but its because of people like yourself our justice system is all screwed up. Pandering to criminals, attempting to find any loophole to find pity for him. Murder is a crime. You can be insane, but the fact is he still committed a crime. One of the top no no's of crime for that matter.

It just bothers me most that those that defend them will do so until they or their family becomes the victim. Then you'll take it personally no doubt.

double post

[edit on 8/6/2008 by DYepes]

Wow, I guess you really see it that way. Let me ask this, cause it seems this way:

Do you honestly believe that anyone who kills someone else should be treated the same way no matter what the circumstance?

I know some people with various disorders do not accept the fact, but if he had previously been treated and even institutionalized he would have to know something was wrong.

I don't think you understand mental illness. It primarily affects your perception and in particular your self perception. The way these illnesses work, there are many people who are very sick but don't believe for a second that they are - even after treatment.

But that doesn't make them any less sick.

What worries me is people calling for his death without a clear reason for it. It's one thing to call for someone to be killed, but be clear about why you're doing it. Are you killing him because he is a threat to others? Because he is sick and should be put out of his misery? To save money trying to rehabilitate? To enact justice?

And if you're saying 'all of the above', then every single institutionalised person with any kind of violent tendencies should be killed. Anyone who is unhappy or sick should be killed. Anyone who is a drain on the system should be killed.

I know I'm speaking generally and y'all are talking specifics, but you're talking policy and policy is general. Because if you're saying 'this particular guy needs to be killed', then you're not talking mercy or justice, you're talking like a murderer.

[edit on 6-8-2008 by TheStev]

The way I see some of the act, I am not so sure.
Last year when they found the man in the woods that killed one of their agents in Central florida, he had so many bulletholes in him, that it was clear one or more officers had reloaded their gun and emptied it again. A bit of overkill, but the man did kill an officer of the law, and although I dont approve of how many times they shot him (obviously they were quite angry), at least I know that murderer is not sitting cozy sucking down our tax money.

In any case, this man is a threat to society and others and has proven it with this crime. The most logical course of action to save the resources of the state and to fulfill the wishes of a suffering individual is to dispatch him. there is no precedent here.

I suppose you will just give him a hug, tell him everything is ok, and then give him a stamp of approval for re-integration if he is able to walk and talk normal in six months so long as he is fully doped up on hundreds of dollars of medication every week, eh?



[edit on 8/6/2008 by DYepes]

There are some semantic issues here which I'm sure can be used to say that I'm speaking about criminals, but I'm not.

My compassion, my 'pandering', my pity is for the mentally ill. Now if someone who is mentally ill commits a crime, they become a criminal. I get that. And while I am principally opposed to the death penalty, that is not the issue for me here. The issue is that he is not of sound mind.

To me, there is no person weaker, no person more vulnerable than someone who is incapable of perceiving the world and interacting with the world in the same way as the rest of us. Those people, as I see it, deserve more defense than 'normal' fully functioning people.

It seems like people may not agree with this view, but I assure you that all people suffering mental illness are victims of this sickness. That doesn't absolve them of responsibility, and I'm not saying it does. But we need to remember that these people are victims.

Originally posted by TheStev
It seems like people may not agree with this view, but I assure you that all people suffering mental illness are victims of this sickness. That doesn't absolve them of responsibility, and I'm not saying it does. But we need to remember that these people are victims.

There are plenty of ppl walking around w/ the same supposed mental "handicap" and even worse than what is being claimed this guy has and they have never harmed anyone. BS FLAG IS GOING UP!!! Victim my arse.

Are the ppl saying that he is the victim on brain numbing meds or something?? I am not getting that he is the victim!! *boo flippin hoo* the guy has mental problems.......... nothing a bullet in the head won't cure!

[edit on 6-8-2008 by justamomma]

How has 'a victim' become 'the victim'. I don't deny for a moment that the person who was killed was a victim. There can be two you know!

And it may come as news to you, but all mental illnesses present differently. In fact, the same mental illness presents differently in different people. So to say 'there are people out there who are mentally ill who haven't killed people, so anyone mentally ill who does kill someone is obviously pure evil' is incredibly close-minded.

I know you didn't say 'pure evil', I'm exaggerating to make a point.

What I find funny is that all these people requesting that this guy be tortured and/or killed don't realize that by suggesting such things they are only acting like they want to become his equal. I can understand why people are upset, this was indeed a terrible crime. To me that means it is more important that instead of calling for this mans murder we should be treating and studying his illness.

He is clearly not mentally fit. If all we ever do is kill people like him we will never be able to prevent future tragedies. However, if we choose to act accordingly and with dignity we will be able to further our knowledge of mental disorders. This will equip us with better means of diagnosing these disorders and with proper treatment hopefully we will be able to help these people live normal lives. Lives that don't involve killing or hurting other people. I'll take a win win situation over a lose lose any day.

All the sudden unexplained bus trips to different city's.
Tells me he was going to see people and talk to people, that don't exist.
Or he was going to see people and talk to people, that did exist.
And what they were doing to him, was so bad, he thought the easiest way to get out of it was to do something so heinous that he would get shot and killed.
I bet he thought he wouldn't make it off the bus, is why he was taunting them with the head etc hoping he would get sniped.
Some people want to die more, than we want to be rich, yet completely lack the ability to do it themselves.
If only he had done it in Texas he would have got his wish.

Originally posted by TheStevI know you didn't say 'pure evil', I'm exaggerating to make a point.

Well, I'll say it now so there will be no mistaking it. The man that hacked into the body of that kid and put pieces of the kid's body in his mouth and proceeded in chewing up those pieces is PURE EVIL!! Mark it down, take notes, whatever.

That is sick. Yes that guy IS SICK!! and there is only one cure that would be justice for THE actual victim.

I'll accept the close minded accusation bc in this case, I am close minded. Bring the sicko to the post and commence in firing the gun.

Originally posted by DYepes
I will say this, if this man had done this on the bus I was on, I would not have run like a coward and watch this innocent person die. I do carry a knife on me sometimes, and can fight a good fight.

And if it turns out that you didn't actually see 'a man doing this'. If it turned out the man was just sitting quietly, minding his own business, and your mental illness had caused you to perceive him as a threat. If your mental illness cause you to 'see' him attacking someone else, even if he wasn't.

In that case, you would be happy for us to kill you?

I have been thinking more about this and the torture people wish to be inflicted on Mr. Li. If it is his wish to die then he is obviously very tortured within himself. Either by the act and / or his illness in general. If you want to see him really tortured, let him live and dwell on what he has done.
Stev,
I know you are not keen on killing the man, but how would you feel about this alternative? I know which I would rather.
So you know I have known people with schizophrenia and one of them, a good friend, killed himself only meters away from me without me even knowing. I now he was disturbed and was tortured every day. When I found him, he had a smile on his face which is something I hadn’t seen for a long time. I was actually relived for him that he was in peace.