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posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 10:57 AM
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Dear Sir,

Posted by emsed1


One thing I can say is that if a member of my lodge ever tried to signal to another mason outside of lodge to gain some sort of 'favor' or 'influence' it would be considered shameful and crude. I have never heard of it happening but it would be severely frowned upon and completely inconsistent with our traditions.



You strike me as a good man, and I am sure you had the most noble of intentions in joining the Freemasons. Sadly I can confirm that here in the UK I have first handedly witnessed others gaining advantage by these techniques. Here a large number of the police force are masons. If you are "crafty" enough when you get stopped you can get away scot-free. I have personally been in a car with a drunk relative who has driven home with a fellow mason following in a police car... so he would not get stopped by any others....

I have witnessed masons in court rooms gaining the upper-hand with a judge by the use of gestures. I have seen and watched too much. However hard this is to hear there is a dark side. As you elude to in your previous post.

I am on relatively the same page as yourselves in as much as beliefs, yet I find myself completely committed to Service to Others and the feminine energy. I completely understand the need for Service to Self and the Male energy. But I don't see this as having any future in the coming Shift. If that actually happens.

We are, it would seem, at least some, simply at opposite ends of the sliding
scale.

I thank you for your well mannered and non-condescending replies.

Regards.




posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by TrueLight

I am on relatively the same page as yourselves in as much as beliefs, yet I find myself completely committed to Service to Others and the feminine energy. I completely understand the need for Service to Self and the Male energy. But I don't see this as having any future in the coming Shift. If that actually happens.

We are, it would seem, at least some, simply at opposite ends of the sliding
scale.

I thank you for your well mannered and non-condescending replies.

Regards.


Thank you as well.

This is what makes ATS so great. People with different viewpoints can present and debate them and even if they don't agree when the dust is settled they can part with respect.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by ALightinDarkness
 



Far from being bogus, those techniques I refer to work. And Freemasons here use them. I would like to ask you this. Do you think the rituals are merely high spirited horseplay?

Because you are, I think, missing the real point of these. They operate in a dimension you cannot see. And I hope you never have to feel the brunt of the consequences of what you have sworn.

At least at my Grandfather's level, he had to agree to kill if asked. When he literally dropped dead of bowel problems - curiously quite soon after I'd refused 3 times to join.... We found a handgun and amunition in his study. (Illegal in the UK).

So I appreciate your stance, that you wish to make out that everything is cool. But frankly if you wish to advance with personal self-realisation you don't need to swear blood oaths. All you need to do is refer to ancient Hermetic and Indian texts. It really is that simple.

I see all paths as valid. I am adding my balancing opinion. This I am sure you
have the ability to comprehend fully sir.

Thank you for dealing with me swiftly.

Regards.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by emsed1
 


Thank you emsed1 it has been a pleasure to converse with you. You are an excellent and respectful envoy for your faith.

Regards



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by laughingcrows


But did it ever dawn on you that not all Masons are "top level, in the know" Masons?

Every group needs it's worker bees. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But it is possible that there might be something going on behind doors where you're not invited.


As a Master Mason I am allowed to attend any and all functions or meetings of the lodge.

At any time a member can see the financial and meeting records of everything going on in the lodge. That's sort of the point of masonry, to teach that all men are equal and have the same say.

I can't speak for anything that goes on outside Blue Lodge masonry, but there is no one controlling or manipulating our lodge or our members.

There would be no point to manipulation. We don't recruit, so trying to dominate society is out of the question. We don't really want people to join if they don't want to because that would create resentment.

And unlike the military, you can walk away at any time with no questions asked.

I have found the 'top-level' thing to be quite the opposite to the popular perception. It seems like anybody who wants to move up and help out in the leadership of the lodge it is welcomed with open arms.

It's sort of funny that every year when it comes time to elect a master and the officers that you don't really see a scramble of volunteers. It's a lot of work and most people have families and other obligations so it's not like there is a huge rush to wield 'unlimited power'. :-)

Maybe some other masons have viewpoints on that but in my lodge anyway it seems that you can have all the responsibility and power you are willing to take.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 11:30 AM
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I appreciate the opportunity to "ask a Mason." Okay, here's what's been on my mind.

What is the role of John the Baptist's skull in various rites?

Is John the Baptist considered the true Christ instead of Jesus?

Is the Scottish Rite an offshoot of the Knights Templars?

Are the ideals of the US Constitution based on the ideals of Masonry?

Do Mason believe in a Rex Deus? (Jesus' bloodlineage?)

Dan Brown's next book is about Freemasonry. Has there been cooperation with Dan Brown or resistance against the making of this book?



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by Matrix1111
I appreciate the opportunity to "ask a Mason." Okay, here's what's been on my mind.

What is the role of John the Baptist's skull in various rites?

Is John the Baptist considered the true Christ instead of Jesus?

Is the Scottish Rite an offshoot of the Knights Templars?

Are the ideals of the US Constitution based on the ideals of Masonry?

Do Mason believe in a Rex Deus? (Jesus' bloodlineage?)

Dan Brown's next book is about Freemasonry. Has there been cooperation with Dan Brown or resistance against the making of this book?



Thanks for the questions!

In Blue Lodge masonry a skull is not used or referred to in any way. We do talk a lot about St. John the Baptist and St. John the Evangelist because our lodges are dedicated to them.

Jesus is not mentioned in masonry, but I believe if you become a mason and then join York Rite you can move through the Knights Templar degrees which require you to be a Christian. I don't belong to York though, so this is just speculation on my part.

I would say that the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence contain a lot in common with masonry, in that we believe all men are created equal.

Masons tend to be pretty proud of the role freemasonry played in the founding of our country. It's my understanding that masonic lodges provided a safe environment to discuss revolutionary ideas because everyone who attended was a brother and shared loyalty to the others.

In modern times neither religion nor politics are allowed to be discussed in lodge. It's our belief that in order to accomplish something good there must be harmony and the topics of religion and politics are among the most divisive.

In US masonry the Holy Bible plays a large part in our ceremonies but it is revered mostly as a book of moral codes. Most of the biblical references in the three degrees refer to the Old Testament.

If a Muslim or Jew wished to join he could ask for the Koran or Torah to be used in the ceremony and it would be no problem. We favor no religion over another, we just ask that a man believe in a single Supreme Being.

As far as Dan Brown goes, I think he has had an amazing influence on freemasonry. It's my understanding that he is not a mason, but interest in his books have caused a small but growing renaissance in the masonic world.

Most of my brothers have read the books and watched the movies like 'Da Vinci Code' and 'American Treasure' and love them. Personally I really like reading that stuff as a devout conspiracy theorist.

Of course stories like his have appeared throughout masonic history and haven't always been favorable to us. The Catholic church treated masons very badly for a couple of centuries, but I believe the excommunication order for masons has been rescinded.

A lot of what Dan Brown writes about in the Da Vinci Code deals with the Knights Templar. In modern times the Knights Templar are members of York Rite (and masons) that have progressed through the York degrees.

I don't believe there is a direct link between them and the Knights Templar of history, but they seem to have a lot of Christian traditions and chivalric type teachings it seems.

I am very excited and a lot of the brothers I know are really excited about Dan Brown's book and I can't wait to read it. I read the 'Hiram Key' which is by another author and it was pretty boring. He tried to make the argument that the ancient Egyptians and even Jesus were masons, but it really was conjecture.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 01:08 PM
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Here's some questions I haven't seen yet, but that get asked a lot.

What's your deal with the drawing tools?

Masonry today is called 'speculative' masonry because we obviously don't build buildings or do anything with rocks. We pattern ourselves after stonemason guilds of ancient times, who were called 'operative' masons.

Tools that a stonemason used to build things are used by us as symbols. The most common ones you see are the compass and the square.

Stonemasons (and carpenters, draftsmen, architects) use a compass to draw circles. In freemasonry we use the compass as a symbol for circumscribing our actions. We are supposed to think about drawing a circle around our behavior and keeping it inside the circle.

This is also called 'subduing your passions'. It's sort of a moral lesson that you can apply to everyday life.

The square represents how we should deal with others. We are supposed to be truthful and fair in our dealings with everyone, including non-masons and anti-masons.

The level represents how we see all people. We meet 'on the level' meaning that everyone in the lodge is an equal. The only mason that wields power in the lodge is the Worshipful Master, but it's only for one year and then he has to return to being a member like the rest of us. The reason to have a Worshipful Master is mostly that 'somebody' needs to run the meetings and pay the bills.

What does the 'G' mean?

The most common masonic symbol you will see is the square and compass with a G in the middle. The G means different things to different people, but usually it represents God or the Grand Architect of the Universe.

It can also stand for 'geometry'. There are a lot of references to geometry in our ceremonies that draw on the teachings of Euclid, Pythagoras, etc.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by emsed1
A lot of what Dan Brown writes about in the Da Vinci Code deals with the Knights Templar. In modern times the Knights Templar are members of York Rite (and masons) that have progressed through the York degrees.

I don't believe there is a direct link between them and the Knights Templar of history, but they seem to have a lot of Christian traditions and chivalric type teachings it seems.


Just to clarify one point, while it is true that the 13th degree of the York Rite has the title "Knights Templar", the Scottish Rite 27th degree is also "Knight Commander of the Temple". One could say both rites have templar degrees, and certainly both have additional chivalric degrees in addition to the temple. (York has Knights of Malta and one other, I believe, and the Scottish Rite has Knights of St. Andrew and a few others.)



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 01:31 PM
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Originally posted by emsed1

I am very excited and a lot of the brothers I know are really excited about Dan Brown's book and I can't wait to read it. I read the 'Hiram Key' which is by another author and it was pretty boring. He tried to make the argument that the ancient Egyptians and even Jesus were masons, but it really was conjecture.


I like Dan Brown too. I read Hiram Key as well. It strongly makes the connection that the Templars went into hiding in Scotland and became the Scottish Rite. The authors' case that the Rosslyn Church is based on Solomon's Temple is convincing enough for me.

Btw, Dan Brown's next book was originally going to be called Solomon's Temple.

www.free-press-release.com...

I don't think a third degree mason can really answer the questions I've asked. It would be good to have a higher level mason participate in this thread.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by Matrix1111
I don't think a third degree mason can really answer the questions I've asked. It would be good to have a higher level mason participate in this thread.
Well, any of us would try to correct you and say there's no higher degree than the 3rd degree. If your question is about general Masonry, any of us should be able to answer it. If your question is about Scottish Rite Masonry, I and a handful of others here are 32°. There's even one 33° who floats around from time to time. (There's at least one Shriner in the bunch, but off the top of my head, I'm not aware of any York Rite members...)

So depending on what kind of question you want to ask, someone here may be able to help...



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by Matrix1111

Originally posted by emsed1

I don't think a third degree mason can really answer the questions I've asked. It would be good to have a higher level mason participate in this thread.


I think that's probably true. Maybe one of the Scottish Rite or York Rite brothers could help?

I am still on the fence as to whether to join one of the appendant bodies because of the time commitment but they sure do seem interesting.



Mod - edit, fix quote tags

[edit on 14/7/2008 by Sauron]



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 02:07 PM
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For the member that asked about the 'devil sign':

www.freemasonry.bcy.ca...

This is all I could find so far, but it's not used in Freemasonry.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by emsed1

Originally posted by Matrix1111

Originally posted by emsed1

I don't think a third degree mason can really answer the questions I've asked. It would be good to have a higher level mason participate in this thread.


I think that's probably true. Maybe one of the Scottish Rite or York Rite brothers could help?

I am still on the fence as to whether to join one of the appendant bodies because of the time commitment but they sure do seem interesting.


I've taken the tour at the George Washington Masonic Memorial in Alexandria, VA. It has a Templar chapel on the 4th floor (nearly top floor) with stainglass windows depicting the crucifixion with the infamous skull. Some say the Templars found the skull of John the Baptist during its Crusade days. It is an odd thing to have in a stainglass window of Jesus. Obviously it is a significant object/symbol for the Templar degree. It was even reported in the Inquisition report that Templars were initiated with a rithe of drinking from the Baptist? skull and the Catholic Church interpreted that as satanic.




Mod - edit, fix quote tags

[edit on 14/7/2008 by Sauron]



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Matrix1111
I don't think a third degree mason can really answer the questions I've asked. It would be good to have a higher level mason participate in this thread.
Well, any of us would try to correct you and say there's no higher degree than the 3rd degree. If your question is about general Masonry, any of us should be able to answer it. If your question is about Scottish Rite Masonry, I and a handful of others here are 32°. There's even one 33° who floats around from time to time. (There's at least one Shriner in the bunch, but off the top of my head, I'm not aware of any York Rite members...)

So depending on what kind of question you want to ask, someone here may be able to help...


My questions revolve around the conspiracy theories against the masons. I have yet to determine what's rumor, disinformation or truth.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
I have not seen a masonic Koran or Torah.


Just a side note: the grand lodge of Missouri has masonic Karans and Torahs that can be given to members.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by emsed1
 


I think you might have missed my questions. I have read through all the posts and didn't see a reply to my questions, I might have missed it but don't think so. If you have could you say which page of the 6 pages your reply to my questions is on?

Here are my questions again. I think the first two have been answered elsewhere by now, but there are still the other questions and here are an extra two.

Hi, great thread. Can you answer these questions.

1.Can anyone approach the Masons to join them? (as long as they adhere to the criteria above you stated)
2. Is it true that you have to be invited by a Mason? That you can't just ask the Masons if you can join?
3. Are the higher scerets degrees really true?
4.What is the best thing about being a mason?

Thanks.

Why are women not allowed to join the Masons?
And is it true they have their own order, The Star order or similar is it called?




[edit on 14-7-2008 by UFOpsychiczebra]



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by UFOpsychiczebra
reply to post by emsed1
 


I think you might have missed my questions. I have read through all the posts and didn't see a reply to my questions, I might have missed it but don't think so. If you have could you say which page of the 6 pages your reply to my questions is on?

Here are my questions again. I think the first two have been answered elsewhere by now, but there are still the other questions and here is an extra one.

Why are women not allowed to join the Masons?
And is it true they have their own order, The Star order or similar is it called?

Hi, great thread. Can you answer these questions.

1.Can anyone approach the Masons to join them? (as long as they adhere to the criteria above you stated)
2. Is it true that you have to be invited by a Mason? That you can't just ask the Masons if you can join?
3. Are the higher scerets degrees really true?
4.What is the best thing about being a mason?

Thanks.




Hi,

Sorry if I missed them and thanks for re-posting.

In the US women cannot become masons. I don't have a good answer for that except that they can't.

Order of the Eastern Star is an organization of masons and their wives and a lot of the guys at my lodge participate in it as well. I think they do a lot of similar ceremonies in OES. Just as a side point a lot of the appendant bodies like York and Scottish Rite, and OES, etc. use our buildings for their meetings, especially in smaller towns.

1 - Any man of good character, who believes in God and is over 18 can join the masons.

2 - This is the opposite of the truth. Masons can't invite or recruit which in some ways is bad because it sure would help membership. A man has to come to masonry on his own but we are happy to help once you ask.

3 - There are three degrees in masonry. They are called Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft and Master Mason. Once you become a Master Mason you are the same level as any other mason in the world.

There are other organizations that masons join when they become a master mason that confer higher degrees, but going through these degrees does not give them any authority or rank over masons. We consider all masons to be equal no matter how many numbers or letters then have after their name or how many silly badges are stuck to their cars.

4 - To me the best thing about being a mason is when we go to community events and help with programs like the Child ID. We give parents a package that has a picture, video and fingerprints of their child that they can keep in case the child ever goes missing. It's something we do for free and when a parent thanks you it makes you feel very good.

Another good thing is just knowing that anywhere you go as a mason where there are lodges if you are ever in trouble they will help you. Even though I don't know any of the other masons on this board personally if they ever travelled through my town and needed a place to stay or a hot meal I would provide it to them without question because I know they are good men.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by emsed1
One thing I can say is that if a member of my lodge ever tried to signal to another mason outside of lodge to gain some sort of 'favor' or 'influence' it would be considered shameful and crude. I have never heard of it happening but it would be severely frowned upon and completely inconsistent with our traditions.

One of the most sacred things we believe is that ALL men are equal. That's why we leave all our job titles and positions in society at the door when we have meetings.

I think any true mason (and if there are masons that disagree please post) would find it abhorrent and embarrassing if we had some guy out there trying to use freemasonry for any type of personal gain.


While I was in the Army, I ran across a few masons that tried to get peronal gain from their membership. We had a term for them, we call them ring knokers. They would tap their masonic rings on your desk so you would know that you were dealing with a mason. These gentlemen would be sit striaght by any mason worth their salt and often times either corrected thier errors or left the masons. Any one exspecting to get special treatment for being a mason, join the lodge under a false pretense.

[edit on 14-7-2008 by lost in the midwest]



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by UFOpsychiczebra
 


I thought I answered all 4 of your questions on page 2, here. Sorry if it got lost in the shuffle.






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