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posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 07:22 AM
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This is my first ATS post. So greetings ATS. I would like to pose some questions to the Masons here

Fistly I would like the subject of Baal cleared up. I know there is a reference to Baal/Bael within the Masonic word Jahbulon. The "bul" part of the 3 syllable password referring to Baal.

This entry gives some information:
Baal at wikipedia

If this information is correct, and you do indeed have a higher demonic spirit from the Goetia in one of your codewords then curiousity wonders why. Is this the true power of the (as I understand it) negative "charging" you receive?

And if so, would you be so kind as to explain the benefits of receiving negative spiritual energy as opposed to positive?

Furthermore, I understand the real and correct 3 syllable word is unknown to you. Jahbulon is a bluff. The first 2 syllables are known to only the highest ranks. Such a shame Hiram Abiff was killed by the ruffians before they could extract the final syllable that would release the powers of darkness upon this world. Did King Solomon and King Hiram have to kill many to show their devotion to the darkness? I assume you would be aware of this history, which is integral to your organization. I am aware darkness requires dedication, you must prove yourself to it before you receive its powers. I believe that is what wars are, mass sacrifices to appease the dark ones.

I read somewhere that states that perhaps this is why at the 33rd you are offered a bible or a cross, and instructed to deface it in some way. Whichever you choose you are told "you have made the right decision", but only the sacrilegious go on to advance to the galactic fraternity and enjoy the benefits of child abuse and so forth. You of course, as I appreciate, may not be able to validate this statement, as you took oaths to have your bowels torn out should you reveal the secrets.

Of course all this could be nonsense or "crackpot" theory. If so you will have a perfect explanation for the use of Baal in your codeword Jahbulon.

And finaly could you explain how it is decribed to your members that Lucifer and Jesus are one and the same, including your explanations as to the references in the Bible to the "morning star".

Oh actually, if you are just blue degrees, you may not be aware of any of this. Later on, if you get to learn it, the password you need to rule in hell is "Abaddon". Saves you working your way up, just incase you don't get to the necessary degree before 2012. If you CAN answer or clear up any of these allegations it would be appreciated. And I truly hope you know what you have gotten yourselves into.

Regards.




posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 08:06 AM
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Originally posted by TrueLight
I know there is a reference to Baal/Bael within the Masonic word Jahbulon. The "bul" part of the 3 syllable password referring to Baal.


Before I respond to your post, could you firstly please tell me:

1. In what passage does "Jahbulon" feature in Masonic ritual? Do you have a quote?

2. How do you get "Baal" from "Bul"?

Cheers.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 08:10 AM
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Oh, and do you really believe that stuff about desecrating the cross?

Honestly...



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 08:11 AM
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To all those who are asking about how to find out about the people in a lodge: What I did when trying to find out which lodge to join was to visit the lodges. In each lodge there is a picture wall of all the past masters. That is a good place to start, see if you recognize any of them. I was directed to a lodge a little farther away from another because the members were a little younger. I have since sat at the closer lodge and everyone is friendly (but there are a bunch of geezers). A really cool thing about talking to these older guys is that in the lodge you are all equals, brohters. So you can talk to them on an equal basis and learn some really cool history. Some of these guys were war heros who should have had movies made about them, but they just do their thing quietly. I have yet to meet a mason I didn't like.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 08:25 AM
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Originally posted by TrueLight
Fistly I would like the subject of Baal cleared up. I know there is a reference to Baal/Bael within the Masonic word Jahbulon. The "bul" part of the 3 syllable password referring to Baal.


The term Jahbulon has been removed from masonic ritual, mainly because of the hoaxes started about it. Look at the above. How do you get "Baal" from "Bul"? One has 2 A's, one has 1 U. Where people get this stuff is not from the ritual, but from their own minds when they make up the conspiracy theory. Jahbulon has never had anything to do with Baal, and never will. You can tell just by looking at the similarities between what your trying to claim it is (baal) and the world itself (bul). I can even quote to you the old text of what the ritual says Jahbulon is, which has nothing to do with Baal, but I realize its going to fall on deaf ears.


Originally posted by TrueLight
If this information is correct, and you do indeed have a higher demonic spirit from the Goetia in one of your codewords then curiousity wonders why. Is this the true power of the (as I understand it) negative "charging" you receive?


As the information is completely incorrect, there is no "higher demonic spirit" in masonry. In fact, there is no spirit - good or evil - lower or higher.


Originally posted by TrueLight
Furthermore, I understand the real and correct 3 syllable word is unknown to you. Jahbulon is a bluff. The first 2 syllables are known to only the highest ranks. Such a shame Hiram Abiff was killed by the ruffians before they could extract the final syllable that would release the powers of darkness upon this world.


You misunderstand. There are no "higher ranks" to know the first two syllables. Furthermore, the status of the word changes in several appendent bodies, of which any mason may join. Of course anyone interested in learning about masonry knows it is not the word itself that matters, but the lessons taught around seeking it.


Originally posted by TrueLight
Did King Solomon and King Hiram have to kill many to show their devotion to the darkness? I assume you would be aware of this history, which is integral to your organization.


Apparently, you are not aware of our history. Else you would know the Hiram tale is a morality play. It has a specific function and purpose as a literary device.


Originally posted by TrueLight
I am aware darkness requires dedication, you must prove yourself to it before you receive its powers. I believe that is what wars are, mass sacrifices to appease the dark ones.


That may very well be your personal little view of the world, but its not masonry.


Originally posted by TrueLight
I read somewhere that states that perhaps this is why at the 33rd you are offered a bible or a cross, and instructed to deface it in some way. Whichever you choose you are told "you have made the right decision", but only the sacrilegious go on to advance to the galactic fraternity and enjoy the benefits of child abuse and so forth.


You really should read some actual sources on masonry and not conspiracy blogs. This is a tried and true debunked myth that comes from the same religious zealots that tried to accuse the Knights Templar of doing the same. Oddly, the Vatican now admits the Templar's never did this, however, it seems as though the religious zealots have lifted the technique of throwing wild accusations just to see what sticks and aimed it at masonry.


Originally posted by TrueLight
You of course, as I appreciate, may not be able to validate this statement, as you took oaths to have your bowels torn out should you reveal the secrets.


Don't you wish it were so? I imagine those who make up stuff about masonry would absolutely love it if they could make up all sorts of stuff about us, as you just did, and then claim that we can't confirm or deny it due to our obligations. Unfortunately for you the obligations prohibit me only from certain signs, grips, and words and not the context of the ritual. And I can say that your accusations are 100% wrong, and the result of over-active conspiracy imaginations with no basis in reality.


Originally posted by TrueLight
Of course all this could be nonsense or "crackpot" theory. If so you will have a perfect explanation for the use of Baal in your codeword Jahbulon.


Indeed I do have a perfect explanation: there is no baal in the world Jahbulon.


Originally posted by TrueLight
And finaly could you explain how it is decribed to your members that Lucifer and Jesus are one and the same, including your explanations as to the references in the Bible to the "morning star".


I'm afraid I can't explain it because this is not true. It is a product of the well known Taxil Hoax, and the hoaxer himself admitted he made it up. This somehow doesn't seem to stop conspiracy theorists from clinging to it and hoping it were true. Sorry, you got hoaxed on that one and its been a known hoax for quite some time.


Originally posted by TrueLight
Oh actually, if you are just blue degrees, you may not be aware of any of this. Later on, if you get to learn it, the password you need to rule in hell is "Abaddon". Saves you working your way up, just incase you don't get to the necessary degree before 2012.


Right. And you my good sir, who have just shown you still haven't figured out that the Taxil hoax is fake and are bringing up points from it, somehow know about these mythical "higher degrees." The only one who will be ruling in hell, my good sir, are those certain people who take the time to make up conspiracies about groups of people devoted to doing good in their communities. Sadly, its not just masonry where they do this.

[edit on 14-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 08:43 AM
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Light already answered these, but I'll offer my take on a few...

Originally posted by scarecrow58
3. Do you have any regrets with becoming a mason (or wish you would have become one earlier than you did)?

I'd been at the very least curious about Masonry most of my adult life. I didn't actually seek to join until such time as I was married, had a house & a child and felt my life had more or less stabilized. Just coming from personal experience, I don't know if I would have fully appreciated the lessons of Masonry when I was young, brash and cock-sure. A bit of life experience, I feel, has given me a bit of perspective by which I can take a Masonic lesson and see, 'Yes, that applies to my life.'

But everyone comes to personal and spiritual growth at their own pace, so I won't say that you're too young, as I don't even know you. I can just say it was right for me when I did it.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 08:58 AM
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Originally posted by TrueLight
And finaly could you explain how it is decribed to your members that Lucifer and Jesus are one and the same, including your explanations as to the references in the Bible to the "morning star".
Jesus is never described at all in Masonry. To do so would be divisive to those of non-Christian faith who meet together.

The concept that Lucifer and Jesus are one and the same is not Masonic at all (and to my knowledge is not taught in any branch of Masonry). It actually comes from biblical scholarship. There's absolutely no passage in the King James bible or elsewhere that says Lucifer and Satan are the same being. Lucifer is only mentioned in Isaiah when describing the fall of the king of Babylon. Lucifer translates as Morning Star, and today we know this to be the planet Venus which rises no more than 3 hours before the dawn. (Coincidentally, I learned yesterday from Isaac Asimov's guide to the bible that the ancients also believed there was an Evening Star, which it turns out was also Venus. They just thought there were two different bodies of light, and I believe it was Pythagorus who worked out that they were, in fact, the same...)

The concept that Lucifer was the pre-fall version of Satan didn't come about until Jerome's Latin Vulgate and was popularized by Milton's Paradise Lost.

Are you saying Paradise Lost by a mere man was right and the bible was wrong? Who's sacrilegious now?

[edit on 7/14/2008 by JoshNorton]



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 09:13 AM
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Wow!

I go home and sleep for a day and this thing went nuts!

I want to thank the other masons here for picking up my slack.

Just to address a couple of things:

I did not intend this to be a recruiting or proselytizing post. In fact, I think you will find that it is the antis that are trying to hijack the purpose of the thread. I just wanted to provide a place for folks who have real questions to see if we can give them an honest answer.

Anyway, I will dig through these questions and try to help answer them.

In the interest of fairness, I wanted to post some common masonic and anti-masonic sites so you can take a look and judge for yourselves.

MasonicInfo - Pretty balanced

Ephesians 5-11 - very anti-masonry

Freemasonry Watch - VERY VERY anti-masonry

I want to provide both sides of the debate because I think it's important for anyone researching masonry to see ALL sides of the issue.

I think a lot of my frustration in the four years I researched masonry before joining was because I couldn't get a straight answer to valid questions I had. I would have to say both sides were at fault here because one side wants you to believe it's devil-worship and the other side wouldn't give any answers unless you joined.

So, please... I think most of us here are trying to remain civil. I just want a lively place for fair questions and answers. Lord knows this board is full of places to get anti-masonic views and anyone can start a thread denouncing masonry, so I just ask for a fair shake so we can get questions answered honestly.

Thanks!



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by Roark

Originally posted by TrueLight
I know there is a reference to Baal/Bael within the Masonic word Jahbulon. The "bul" part of the 3 syllable password referring to Baal.


Before I respond to your post, could you firstly please tell me:

1. In what passage does "Jahbulon" feature in Masonic ritual? Do you have a quote?

2. How do you get "Baal" from "Bul"?

Cheers.




You get Baal from bul the same way you get Jehova from Jah....


Regards.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 09:22 AM
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reply to post by TrueLight
 


Which of course, since we don't get Jehovah from Jah, the question still stands. Remember, just because the conspiracy sites go crazy and make up stuff on Jahbulon doesn't mean its true. In fact, in this case, it's not true at all.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by re22666
1) is there ever a reason for someone to asked to leave the masons, or be forced out - whatever that might entail?

2) in a very general sense, what would disqualify you for membership?

3) are there different "breeds" of lodges? if so, any expanse on that would be awesome.

thanks in advance


These are great questions!

1 - If someone is convicted of a felony the lodge would probably hold a vote to 'demit' the member. I don't know about other lodges but it would have to be a serious problem and it would have to be proven, not just allegations.

2 - The only disqualifications I can think of are a) not believing in God and b) having a criminal history. Of course in the United States women are not admitted but I have found that the wives love to attend every function we have outside of the business meetings.

3) - As far as Blue Lodge masonry there are only a couple of different types in the United States that are recognized. Most lodges are AF&AM (Ancient Free and Accepted Masons) or F&AM (Free and Accepted Masons), or Prince Hall Lodge. The AF&AM/F&AM distinction is just a preference by state.

Prince Hall lodges are typically African-American lodges. In our state we recognize Prince Hall as regular and accepted and we often have members visit our lodge from Prince Hall and vice versa.

Race is absolutely NOT a consideration in masonry and any distinction by race would be absolutely NOT tolerated in any way. Prince Hall masonry has an amazing history. There may be some Prince Hall brethren here that can elaborate on that. From my own observation it seems that our local Prince Hall brothers tend to be much more formal and traditional in their ceremonies.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 09:41 AM
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Thank you for taking the time to selectively clear up the points I raised. Please cover the point I made about negative charging. Also I would like to ask another question, if you would be so kind as to indulge it.

This may be interesting for people who have family members or bosses or barristers/solicitors who are freemasons. You will notice, when you attempt to make a decision or express a point of view that is against what they want you to make, they will employ hand gestures, signs etc.

I wish to indicate to people who may feel bullied, that the mind responds to certain key signals. The psychological equivilent of showing someone that they are subordinate to you is sitting opposite them with your hands behind your head. This may be employed to push a point or decision you would perhaps be less likely to make and also display dominance.

Hands behind the head and slightly reclined = I am your master(in subconscious brain terms)

The next level of this expression is a well known(perhaps) signal which is putting ones clenched fist against ones temple (forehead). This subliminally gives the signal "obey me". It harkens back to our primal centres etc.

If you see your parent/lawyer/barrister/doctor or friend pulling these manouvers you can be assured that they are trying to "convince" you to their way of thinking, WITHOUT "truly" circumventing your free will.

Another hand guesture is used to recall anything from your subconscious, and while in itself is not a control technique, it is a nice way to spot those "more informed" amongst us. That is to lightly touch the fingers of your right hand upon your forehead. If any readers wish to recall past information feel free to try it.


So with all this information I have just supplied my question to you fine gentlemen is this: Do you think that trying to subliminally "guide" people to your way of thinking (albeit not against free will) is a correct way to behave?

Providing of course you do these things, these are RECOGNISED techniques.

Many thanks for your kindnesses and corrections previously.

Regards and best wishes.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by emsed1


I have heard of the supposed part of ritual in one of the higher degrees of Scottish Rite (I believe) that references Lucifer, but I don't know if that is true or not.


Just for the record, there are no references to "Lucifer" in the Scottish Rite ritual. The references used by anti-Masons generally come from two sources who were Scottish Rite Masons: Pike's "Morals and Dogma" and Hall's "Lost Keys of Freemasonry".

It should be noted that Hall was not a Mason at the time he wrote his book, and both authors are purposely taken out of context by critics of Freemasonry.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 10:01 AM
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Originally posted by TrueLight
Please cover the point I made about negative charging.


I already have, the question is moot. There is no "charging." Positive, or negative.


Originally posted by TrueLight
This may be interesting for people who have family members or bosses or barristers/solicitors who are freemasons. You will notice, when you attempt to make a decision or express a point of view that is against what they want you to make, they will employ hand gestures, signs etc.


Do you have any evidence for this? If not...as a mason, with masons in the family - no, they do not make "hand gestures" or "signs" beyond normal human body language that anyone else makes.


Originally posted by TrueLight
I wish to indicate to people who may feel bullied, that the mind responds to certain key signals. The psychological equivilent of showing someone that they are subordinate to you is sitting opposite them with your hands behind your head. This may be employed to push a point or decision you would perhaps be less likely to make and also display dominance.


Sounds like pop/bubble gum psychology to me. In any case, none of those "gestures/signs" are remotely masonic.


Originally posted by TrueLight
So with all this information I have just supplied my question to you fine gentlemen is this: Do you think that trying to subliminally "guide" people to your way of thinking (albeit not against free will) is a correct way to behave?


As you just made all that up, and never described anything masons do, how can anyone answer this question? No one is "subliminally guiding" anyone.


Originally posted by TrueLight
Providing of course you do these things, these are RECOGNISED techniques.


By you, perhaps. Not by me.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 10:03 AM
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What happens in a meeting?

Our lodge is very laid back compared to 'traditional' lodges. The meetings are on the first and third Tuesdays and most guys come straight from work so whatever they are wearing is fine. We dress up for formal ceremonies but it's mostly a bunch of blue-collar guys who like to hang out.

I can tell you what a typical meeting is like, and I don't think any of my brethren will get upset for describing it in general terms.

Usually we will show up about 30 minutes to an hour before the meeting and have some sandwiches or a casual meal.

Then we wander upstairs and put on our aprons and sign in to the meeting book.

Everyone takes their seats and the meeting is called to order. We do the pledge of allegiance. There are several officers and each has things they take care of as the meeting is opened, such as making sure the doors are closed to the meeting room, setting up the bible and turning on lamps, etc.

Then we have a prayer (I think the text has been posted here already). Then there is sort of a question and answer session where the master asks all the officers to state their duties. For example the master asks the treasurer what his job is and he says to make sure the bills are paid, etc. The secretary says he takes notes and makes minutes, etc.

Then the meeting is called to order and we do the standard things you would expect at any club meeting, like old business, new business, committee reports, voting on new members, upcoming events, bills and receipts and then a short educational program if somebody happened to bring something.

The education is usually like 'masonic trivia' or something like that.

There are two guys called Stewards that take care of things like introducing new candidates, etc. They are usually dismissed early to go downstairs and get the food ready, etc.

Then we go back around the lodge and everybody says what their job is and we have a closing prayer. Then we go downstairs, have sandwiches or snacks and the old dudes play Euchre.

We usually have only about 15 or 20 guys at a given meeting, but we have about 200 paid members. When guys join Scottish Rite or whatever they tend to not come to Blue Lodge meetings because it's just a lot of committment, but they keep paying their dues and remain masons.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 10:06 AM
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Originally posted by TrueLight
Thank you for taking the time to selectively clear up the points I raised. Please cover the point I made about negative charging. Also I would like to ask another question, if you would be so kind as to indulge it.

This may be interesting for people who have family members or bosses or barristers/solicitors who are freemasons. You will notice, when you attempt to make a decision or express a point of view that is against what they want you to make, they will employ hand gestures, signs etc.

I wish to indicate to people who may feel bullied, that the mind responds to certain key signals. The psychological equivilent of showing someone that they are subordinate to you is sitting opposite them with your hands behind your head. This may be employed to push a point or decision you would perhaps be less likely to make and also display dominance.

Hands behind the head and slightly reclined = I am your master(in subconscious brain terms)

The next level of this expression is a well known(perhaps) signal which is putting ones clenched fist against ones temple (forehead). This subliminally gives the signal "obey me". It harkens back to our primal centres etc.

If you see your parent/lawyer/barrister/doctor or friend pulling these manouvers you can be assured that they are trying to "convince" you to their way of thinking, WITHOUT "truly" circumventing your free will.

Another hand guesture is used to recall anything from your subconscious, and while in itself is not a control technique, it is a nice way to spot those "more informed" amongst us. That is to lightly touch the fingers of your right hand upon your forehead. If any readers wish to recall past information feel free to try it.


So with all this information I have just supplied my question to you fine gentlemen is this: Do you think that trying to subliminally "guide" people to your way of thinking (albeit not against free will) is a correct way to behave?

Providing of course you do these things, these are RECOGNISED techniques.

Many thanks for your kindnesses and corrections previously.

Regards and best wishes.



There is nothing in this post that has anything remotely to do with masonry.

We don't attempt to guide or influence people in any way, ever.

There is no 'masonic' way of thinking.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 10:21 AM
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reply to post by emsed1
 


Sir, with respect, I have witnessed Masons in my family AND in social situations AND in court rooms, pull these manoeuvers. I have also had it explained to me what they mean. My experience is , I confirm, first hand. I have also seen a double manoeuver whereby the hands behind the head have extended to the sides of the body, at right angles into the classic "International Distress Signal".

Perhaps these control techniques are not utilised in the USA, as I am from the UK and I have witnessed these as a provable FACT. I suggest that perhaps this then, if what you have said is truth, only applies to the UK. But I highly doubt it.

Would you be able to explain the horns sign, little finger and index finger extended. Not in a blatant sports supporter or rock fan type of way. I mean in a subtle way , such as straightening ones tie or so on. This I have seen also, many many times, first hand.

And may I bring up the point your Brother Josh made about there being no oath to be disemboweled. If that is the case then what is the purpose of drawing ones thumb accross the abdomen in a slicing manner (another sign).

Obviously these are bluffs presented as disinformation? But you DO use them. I have seen them , first hand.. If you doubt that they exist then I am affraid that I doubt that you are actually a mason.

Thank you again for your kind indulgence, I do not mean to come accross as abrasive, I am merely curious as to your modus operandi.


Many Thanks and Regards.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by TrueLight
reply to post by emsed1
 


Sir, with respect, I have witnessed Masons in my family AND in social situations AND in court rooms, pull these manoeuvers. I have also had it explained to me what they mean. My experience is , I confirm, first hand. I have also seen a double manoeuver whereby the hands behind the head have extended to the sides of the body, at right angles into the classic "International Distress Signal".

Perhaps these control techniques are not utilised in the USA, as I am from the UK and I have witnessed these as a provable FACT. I suggest that perhaps this then, if what you have said is truth, only applies to the UK. But I highly doubt it.

Would you be able to explain the horns sign, little finger and index finger extended. Not in a blatant sports supporter or rock fan type of way. I mean in a subtle way , such as straightening ones tie or so on. This I have seen also, many many times, first hand.

And may I bring up the point your Brother Josh made about there being no oath to be disemboweled. If that is the case then what is the purpose of drawing ones thumb accross the abdomen in a slicing manner (another sign).

Obviously these are bluffs presented as disinformation? But you DO use them. I have seen them , first hand.. If you doubt that they exist then I am affraid that I doubt that you are actually a mason.

Thank you again for your kind indulgence, I do not mean to come accross as abrasive, I am merely curious as to your modus operandi.


Many Thanks and Regards.



No problem at all, I don't take it as abrasive.

As far as the 'hands behind the head' and 'devil horns' signs I can tell you these are not used in US Freemasonry in any way.

I am also not familiar with the 'thumb across the abdomen'.

There are several gestures and grips that are used in our degrees and meetings. I can't share those but I can tell you that I was able to find references to them (or something similar) on the Internet before I joined.

I don't doubt that you have seen things as you claim. However, I can say that these are not used in any way in US Blue Lodge masonry.

I think there are quite a few UGLE (United Grand Lodge of England) members on here that might be able to share more insight. I am not familiar with all their traditions so I can't speak to that.

One thing I can say is that if a member of my lodge ever tried to signal to another mason outside of lodge to gain some sort of 'favor' or 'influence' it would be considered shameful and crude. I have never heard of it happening but it would be severely frowned upon and completely inconsistent with our traditions.

One of the most sacred things we believe is that ALL men are equal. That's why we leave all our job titles and positions in society at the door when we have meetings.

I think any true mason (and if there are masons that disagree please post) would find it abhorrent and embarrassing if we had some guy out there trying to use freemasonry for any type of personal gain.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by TrueLight
Sir, with respect, I have witnessed Masons in my family AND in social situations AND in court rooms, pull these manoeuvers.


Then they are either messing with you, or are irregular masons which are not recognized by mainstream masonry. Lots of people claim to be masons, but I suspect in this case its just people trying to mess with you. None of the things you have described are remotely masonic.


Originally posted by TrueLight
I have also had it explained to me what they mean. My experience is , I confirm, first hand.


...And I, as a mason, confirm that my experiences are first hand. And nothing you've described is masonic. If it was described to you as such, then someone is either lying to you or lying about their masonic affiliation.

Not to mention the entire theory behind people "controlling you" through hand signs smacks of pop psychology - I doubt there is any truth to it at all.


Originally posted by TrueLight
Perhaps these control techniques are not utilised in the USA, as I am from the UK and I have witnessed these as a provable FACT. I suggest that perhaps this then, if what you have said is truth, only applies to the UK. But I highly doubt it.


It has nothing to do with masonry, that is a FACT.


Originally posted by TrueLight
Would you be able to explain the horns sign, little finger and index finger extended. Not in a blatant sports supporter or rock fan type of way. I mean in a subtle way , such as straightening ones tie or so on. This I have seen also, many many times, first hand.


This is a classical conspiracy theorist favorite - but it also has nothing to do with masonry, nor is it used by masons.


Originally posted by TrueLight
And may I bring up the point your Brother Josh made about there being no oath to be disemboweled. If that is the case then what is the purpose of drawing ones thumb accross the abdomen in a slicing manner (another sign).


Your reading outdated Duncan's ritual, combined with conspiracy blogs, and confusing yourself.


Originally posted by TrueLight
Obviously these are bluffs presented as disinformation? But you DO use them. I have seen them , first hand.. If you doubt that they exist then I am affraid that I doubt that you are actually a mason.


There are certain masonic signs - none of which I have ever seen used outside the lodge - but you have described none of them. People have lied to you.

I love this sort of reasoning "Well, if you don't confirm to what I want to believe...your not a mason!" If you want to believe that, that's fine. The truth is...there is no reason for anyone to claim to be a mason and not be one. It appears as though you want to believe first, and dismiss everything to the contrary.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by scarecrow58
Thank you for this opportunity to ask some questions.

1. Would a younger mason feel out of place at all? (ie is the lodge more for older men at which one of roundabouts 18-22 years of age would not quite fit in well with)

2. Without having any personal masonic contacts, how would one go about becoming a mason?

3. Do you have any regrets with becoming a mason (or wish you would have become one earlier than you did)?

4. About how much are the dues? Would one with a rather low income (let us say a struggling college student) be able to afford them?

5. How often are meetings and during what time do they usually take place (ie would meetings interfere with work or school) and what happens if you miss a meeting?

Your answers much appreciated!




These are great questions.

1 - We have had a LOT of 18 to 22 year old members join our lodge in the last couple of years and the old dudes think it is FANTASTIC! One of the really cool things is that these younger guys come in very enthusiastic and want to learn everything they can. They are also really interested in memorizing ritual work.

All of the rituals and lectures, etc, in masonry are memorized. It takes YEARS to learn everything.

One other thing about the younger members is that they are part of the internet generation and they spend a lot of time doing their homework before joining.

2 - I never knew any masons personally when I wanted to join. The best way is to check out your local lodge's website or give them a call. I think this is part of the reason people are hesitant about masonry. We aren't allowed to recruit, but we love it when people want to join.

You can also U2U any of the masons here and they can help find someone for you to talk to in your town.

I always felt like the masons seemed sort of 'stuck up' or unfriendly, but that's not the case at all. We are very laid back and like to have fun. The reason we don't recruit is because we want people to join who WANT to join.

3 - I have no regrets and I think actually I am glad I joined when I did. As I said before I spent about four years off and on researching and I am pretty satisfied with how things have gone.

My only regret is that I read all of the rituals and degrees before joining so some of the 'surprises' and 'mysteries' didn't have as big an impact on me as they do for some guys. I think it would have been a lot more fun going through the degrees without knowing what was coming.

4 - Our dues are $75 to join and $50 per year. We are in a university town so we have lots of poor college students. We are very flexible about helping guys out and letting them pay however they can.

The only absolute requirement we have is that the $75 has to be paid up before you go through all the degrees because it pays for books and supplies that you will get.

5 - The business meetings are usually on the First and Third Tuesday of each month. There are a couple of other events during the month as well. Our lodge is very flexible about attendance and nobody would ever get grief about attending meetings.

If you decide to become an officer then you are expected to come to meetings and degrees because you have to perform certain parts and it's just rude to not show up, but regular members come and go as they like.

Of course we love it when more people show up because that's the point of joining but nobody would ever give you a hard time.





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