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posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by Matrix1111
 

The only reference to a skull in the York Rite is in the Knight Templar degree. In this case it has nothing to do with John or any other person living now or in the past. It is used as a reference to how death is our constant conpaion and how we each my die at anytime. Thus we should keep in mind, that we have a limited time here and should do the best that we can for ourselves and others.

(past commander of St.Graal commandry)

edited for spelling mistakes ( hey guys you think we could get spell check?)


[edit on 14-7-2008 by lost in the midwest]




posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by TrueLight
Far from being bogus, those techniques I refer to work. And Freemasons here use them. I would like to ask you this. Do you think the rituals are merely high spirited horseplay?


All of the signs of freemasonry are available to you on google in 2 minutes. The real ones. You'll find lots of claimed signs which are fake on conspiracy blog and websites, but you can find the real ones pretty quickly. None of what you have mentioned are "masonic signs," so whether you believe they work or not is irrelevant.


Originally posted by TrueLight
Because you are, I think, missing the real point of these. They operate in a dimension you cannot see. And I hope you never have to feel the brunt of the consequences of what you have sworn.


Actually, you've missed the point. Nothing you have mentioned so far is masonic...you have provided no evidence that is masonic....and completely dismiss those who tell you it is not masonic. Its hard to "feel the brunt of the consequences" of things which I did not swear to.


Originally posted by TrueLight
At least at my Grandfather's level, he had to agree to kill if asked. When he literally dropped dead of bowel problems - curiously quite soon after I'd refused 3 times to join.... We found a handgun and amunition in his study. (Illegal in the UK).


And this is proof of...what? By the way, whatever organization your talking about is not masonry as there would be "refusal to join" because no one would have asked you to. You would have had to have asked - and while I guess you could refuse yourself, it would all be rather awkward. Why is it everyone who comes up with these non-masonic signs claims to have been invited and know about the fraternity but don't know its completely against tradition to invite? And yet every single one of them have?

There is nothing in freemasonry that requires you to "agree to kill" anyone if asked. Whatever he was involved with, it wasn't masonry.


Originally posted by TrueLight
So I appreciate your stance, that you wish to make out that everything is cool. But frankly if you wish to advance with personal self-realisation you don't need to swear blood oaths. All you need to do is refer to ancient Hermetic and Indian texts. It really is that simple.


There is nothing more un-enlightened than those who claim to have enlightenment, and then tell others how they should achieve it. I'm not convinced you even know what oaths any mason swears, as you have so far given examples of things which have nothing to do with masonry.

[edit on 14-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by TrueLight
 


This is sort of a straw man argument. Obviously everything has a dark side. But this is not reflective of masonry, nor the norm, nor has any mason I have ever talked to ever observed it. In fact, given masonic culture, using any sort of "sign" for favors is likely to get you booted out for unmasonic conduct.

Anyone driving with a mason to not get stopped by the police is going to be very disappointed. That or they are pulling your chain...which I suspect is what is behind most of your story. My rather notable volume of tickets seems to grow larger even given my status as a mason, and even though I've been stopped a few times by police officers who saw my ring and we spent a few minutes chatting about masonry - they were masons. Then they gave me a ticket and walked back to their car. I'd like to know who it is that is getting all these masonic benefits, because I sure seem to be on the losing end of the stick.

Finally, you've yet again shown that you don't seem to have any knowledge about freemasonry. Service to others is a main tenet of the lodge, your denial of this fact does not change reality. As to the whole "feminine energy" - whatever works for you. As there is no masculine or feminine energy in masonry - we have women masons though they may be irregular - it just sounds like your a new ager. Which is fine, by the way, but remember just because you follow these "new age" beliefs doesn't mean everyone else does. Your assessment about masonry's relevance is nice but the institution has been around longer than anyone here and will continue to be around, whether or not you think its needed won't change that.

[edit on 14-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by lost in the midwest
reply to post by Matrix1111
 

The only reference to a skull in the York Rite is in the Knight Templar degree. In this case it has nothing to do with John or any other person living now or in the past. It is used as a reference to how death is our constant conpaion and how we each my die at anytime. Thus we should keep in mind, that we have a limited time here and should do the best that we can for ourselves and others.

(past commander of St.Graal commandry)

edited for spelling mistakes ( hey guys you think we could get spell check?)


[edit on 14-7-2008 by lost in the midwest]


Yes, that was the spin the masonic guide gave us. I don't buy it.

modernknighttemplar.blogspot.com...



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 04:03 PM
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Masons (white) do not recognize their African-American counterparts. They consider Prince Hall Freemasonry as "clandestine", and "illegal". They claim to be such benevolent and charitable fellows, but yet, as many whites have and still do, they refuse to recognize all man-kind on an equal footing. There is certainly nothing "square", or "level" about that.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by Matrix1111
Yes, that was the spin the masonic guide gave us. I don't buy it.

modernknighttemplar.blogspot.com...
From the site you reference:

I am the North American Grand Prior of the International Order of Gnostic Templars, a Division of the Scottish Knight Templars, which is dedicated to the revival of the Goddess Tradition and Gnostic Wisdom.
This so-called "International Order of Gnostic Templars" is not a recognized Masonic body. If your concerns are with a skull in a York Rite lodge, you'd be better served listening to the York Rite former officer who just answered your question than a fringe group that has no affiliation with Masonry.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Masons (white) do not recognize their African-American counterparts. They consider Prince Hall Freemasonry as "clandestine", and "illegal". They claim to be such benevolent and charitable fellows, but yet, as many whites have and still do, they refuse to recognize all man-kind on an equal footing. There is certainly nothing "square", or "level" about that.



This is not correct.

The Grand Lodge in my state recognizes Prince Hall Masonry, and they recognize AF&AM.

Men of any race may join masonry and my lodge is living proof of that. We have men of many different races and backgrounds and we work regularly with our Prince Hall brothers.

Edit:

This is such a rude and shameful thing to post, especially from an anonymous lurker, that it turns my stomach. I am trying to answer questions honestly and fairly, with citations when I can.

Posts like that have no place in polite discourse.

The following is from my state Grand Lodge website:





Can African Americans become Masons?
Masonry accepts men from every race, color, creed, nationality, and culture, and there are many Freemasons of African-American decent. In addition, Prince Hall Masonry, formed by Prince Hall, an African-American Freemason who received a charter for a Lodge in 1775, has maintained active Lodges for the African-American community throughout America for over 200 years.




[edit on 7/14/08 by emsed1]



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by Anonymous ATS
 


Prince Hall is actually regular, and while some juristictions may have a problem with it, or thei black counterparts, it is NOT a indictment of Masonry as a whole, but rather Masonry as a individual. Everyone can be a jack, after all.But African Americans generally have no problem gaining membership in regular masonry, and of course, have no prblem gaining entrance in Rpince hall. There are white Prince Hall members as well.
And this is something you could pick up from google or wikipedia, or any number of posts by the Masons on this board, if you bothered doing a bit of research.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
I study the Hebrew and Greek direct translations. I have seen that many of the terms in there elude to masonry. I was wondering if Hiram is another name for Aaron. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but Hiram was the First Builder? Aaron was the first High priest. Is there any link between them.

In Masonic lore, Hiram Abiff was the architect of King Solomon's temple, while Hiram King of Tyre provided workmen, if I recall correctly.

Aaron is mentioned during the Entered Apprentice degree, as the Worshipful Master reads Psalm 133:

Behold! how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity:

It is like the precious ointment upon the head that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard that went down to the skirts of his garment:

As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the Lord commanded the blessing, even life for evermore.
www.perrylodge.org...

That's the only mention of Aaron that I recall off the top of my head.

And Last, Jesus said, "I am the chief cornerstone, (pyramid capstone) who the builders rejected". Through study I've come to see that the "Chief" is the last one in line and not the first. Eldest being the First, Chief being the last. Is his statement in any way speaking of the masons?
I do not know. Also in the Entered Apprentice degree, the candidate, after he has taken his oath, is placed in the North East corner of the room, because traditionally the cornerstone in the Northeast was the first one laid down. Symbolically this is saying that all of Masonry is built upon these first teachings that the candidate has received, and that likewise Masonry as a fraternity is built by (and of) the men who join it. So we're the first stone. I honestly can't say I've ever heard Jesus referred to as the last stone, but I suppose such text might exist somewhere.


So, you are the shadow placed under the cornerstone? You are in essence the "Sacrifice" or does an unknowing individual have there specs taken for this? Do you have to have a shadow trader in order for the "cornerstone" ritual? Who else could Jesus of been speaking of, when he says "the chief cornerstone, the one the Builders rejected?

Do you not know about my other two questions I asked?

Boy Scouts, is there any affiliation?

Rumored Jay-Z mason, any truth?

If you don't know the answers people ask, it would be polite to say so, instead of ignoring the questions. thanks again peace



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand


Boy Scouts, is there any affiliation?

Rumored Jay-Z mason, any truth?

If you don't know the answers people ask, it would be polite to say so, instead of ignoring the questions. thanks again peace



I know of no connection to the Boy Scouts, although one of our stewards is a Boy Scout leader. We don't provide any funding or anything like that to the Boy Scouts.

There is no way to know if Jay-Z is a mason. There isn't a big secret masonic database where you can look that sort of thing up.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
So, you are the shadow placed under the cornerstone? You are in essence the "Sacrifice" or does an unknowing individual have there specs taken for this? Do you have to have a shadow trader in order for the "cornerstone" ritual? Who else could Jesus of been speaking of, when he says "the chief cornerstone, the one the Builders rejected?

I don't actually understand your question. Sorry. We're not placed under the shadow of the cornerstone. We are the cornerstone. There's no sacrifice, no mention of shadow at all, and, for that matter, no mention of Jesus at all. We don't talk about Jesus, seems unfair that he'd talk about us. But I'm not a biblical scholar. (On the other hand, I DO happen to have my copy of Asimov's Guide to the Bible with me at the moment, so if you can give me chapter and verse, I can try to look up his interpretation... Though he was known as a sci-fi author, he was a much more learned man than I.)


Boy Scouts, is there any affiliation?

Not that I'm aware of. There's a Masonic group for young men, De Molay, as well as for young women, International Order of Rainbow for Girls.


Rumored Jay-Z mason, any truth?
No idea.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by Matrix1111
 


So when all evidence says there is nothing sinister here, and there is a clear evidence you can look up (all masonic ritual is exposed, and in fact, some of the side orders sell books of the ritual to anyone, mason or not), and you have absolutely no evidence to the contrary - you just dismiss the obvious explanation? Because surely, there MUST be something wrong here...even though you have no evidence for it?



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 05:17 PM
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I'm not a freemason but still I do have several family members who are and I'd like to debunk something about the "Satanism" thing.
Most lodges do not involve Satan, Lucifer, or anything like that and if memory serves there are specific lodges for women such as the Order of the Eastern Star.
The "secretive" thing is just an oath namely just to designate everyone trusts each other unless I'm mistaken.
There are very rare cases where cults attach themselves to Freemasonry because it is secretive and let's face it Freemasonry is enticing in a sense hence why it doesn't hurt to research. The only lodge that I know of that had ties to Satanism was the Golden Centurian lodge. To reiterate this was a one in a million occurrence and most Freemason lodges are safe, charitable, and are, in essence great. My source for this is my two grandfathers, step father and a book called "The Magical Shield".

Ah and on a semi-related note that "anonymous" gentlemen is probably in a group of trolls called "/b/" or "anonymous".

[edit on 14-7-2008 by JamesRam]



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 06:30 PM
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reply to post by JamesRam
 


I would be interested in hearing about this "satanic" lodge - I have never heard of this before. Is it mainstream/regular? Doesn't seem like there is anyway it could be - are you sure its not a fakemason lodge?



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 06:42 PM
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Another question:

Is it inappropriate to email the lodges in my area and ask about their fees/dues? This information would have some bearing on which lodge I petition.

Thanks.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
I would be interested in hearing about this "satanic" lodge - I have never heard of this before. Is it mainstream/regular? Doesn't seem like there is anyway it could be - are you sure its not a fakemason lodge?
Google results all come to multiple copies of the same article citing "The Fetch" as a "researcher". Too bad Android1296, I mean luciferianx, or should I say coiledclue keeps getting himself banned. He'd be tickled pink to know his idol had been taken seriously by someone.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 06:46 PM
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Originally posted by Mahilum
Is it inappropriate to email the lodges in my area and ask about their fees/dues? This information would have some bearing on which lodge I petition.
Nope, that wouldn't be out of line at all. The officer of the lodge who would answer such inquiries is usually the Secretary, and his is often the first (if not only) email address on any given lodge's website.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 06:55 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


Ah, just as I thought. It would be too good to be true for the anti-masons. Like their dreams came true. Sadly, it appears not so.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 08:42 PM
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Hello,

I have been reading this website for a long time and this is my first post. I too am a Mason and have been for the past six years and I currently hold the highest elected position in my lodge which is due to expire in a month and then the next officer in line will take over. I say this to give some credability to what I am writing. I have memorized, recited, initiated, and spoken all of the blue locge degree work, opening and closing ceramonies and other special guest ritual. I have followed this thread and the OP is spot on about American Freemasonry. It is boring, time consuming and I have yet to recieve even the least impression of any special favor or treeatment because of my status as a brother. That being said, Masonry in America is dying, we loose more in my state each year to death then comes in. I attribute some of this to the state of the world we live in, the "me" first society, or most people are working longer for less and do not have the time to attend meetings, be active etc. so they dont bother participating. It is true 95% of our activites involve charity work, and it is very rewarding, but very time consuming.

I just finished a short book called, Masonry - The Truth, by Gordon Cameron. It is available on lulu. They are spot on to every ritual I have ever witnessed, or memorized. I encourage all Masons to read this and would like to discuss some of what is said about the higher degree, the 33rd to be exact and find out if this there is any truth to his claims.

Truelight's post has struck a chord with me and would like to discuss something. I found out about Mason's in the military, joined after I left the service wanting to find out first hand what it is all about. I read all the negative, elitest, santanic overtones to Masonry but decided to find out for myself. I asked a Mason, and it all started there. I was excited and scared as hell at the same time wondering if was unknowingly damming my eternal soul. And to this day I am still not convinced that I have not.

Why is that, well this book talks about the low level negative energy fear based control that Masonry makes all initiates swear to during their initiation. I never though much of it, but yes, it is a form of fear based control, which we reiterate at every meeting. More on that later if any Mason reads the book and wants to talk.

It is written, in the above book, that the 33rd degree, which 95% of all Mason's will never attain, reveals the true meaing behind Masonry and that is fear based control. If you have ever seen then photo of the astronaut on the moon, or basement, whatever you believe, holding a Masonic apron on the moon, and all the evidence of the fake pointing back to Mason's, what better group to pull off the hoax. I encourage everyone to watch secret space Vol 1, and the Illuminati p1 and 2 as found at enigma.tv. This idea of fear based control resonates so perfectly, that I cannot shake it.

The author is only talking about UK Masonry, but the rituals are the same.
I have yet to find any hard evidence of satanic overtones in my lodge with this exception. Initiates ask for more light in Masonry, I have never been able to shake the idea that is a incantation to accepting, or at least verbally accepting a Luceferian doctrine of the pursuit of forbidden knowledge. If you dont know look up Luciferian. There is so much I want to ask my brothers of the 33rd degree but am fearful of ailenating myself from my lodge.

Another point from the book, Masonry has its roots in Christianity, but nowhere is ther any mention of Christ. The reason given is that religion and politics are taboo subjects. The author states it is because Masonry rejects Christ because he was the last human sacrifice. No more blood sacrifices were needed and this negates all the pagan blood religions before Christ. It claims that the eliets reject Chirst teachings because blood sacrifices are no longer needed. Just love and forgiveness. (endP1



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by Matrix1111
 


Sorry I didn't know I was selling any thing. You asked, I answered. If you are looking for magic with skulls I recommend Indiana Jones. Your won't find it in masonry.





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