Ask a Mason

reply to post by Masonic Light


Centuries??? NOW I challenge YOU to present YOUR proof. Centuries?? The country is "officially" only a little over 200 years old itself. And trust me, the centuries prior to that, African-Americans spents in the fields, not cozying up in anyone's lodge. Come on, lets be civilized and rational here. Must you continue to insult everyone's intelligence? See everyone? See how even when faced with raw, undeniable truth, they still attempt to blind you? I know it must anger you that I will not, and cannot, be cajoled into believing any of this foolishness you perpetuate. And this is just scratching the surface (the issue of exclusion and prevalent racism).

Originally posted by pikypiky
Curious minds would like to know the following:

How could someone tell if a person is a Mason?
What should a person look for besides those weird hand signals – mannerism, clothing, speech, etc…?
Would friends of a Mason be entitled to other Masonic ‘ties’?

I think the easiest and most obvious way would be to ask him.

Another easy way is to look for a masonic ring. Generally they are worn on the ring finger of the right hand and have the square and compass symbol.

We also REALLY love our lapel pins and bumper stickers. I am not sure how the lapel pin thing got started but sometimes at big meetings it's like a bling contest with some of the old dudes. :-)

No true mason would get offended if asked and would probably love to tell you if he were.

As far as gestures, handshakes, mannerisms... The only place I use a masonic grip is in the lodge during a meeting. The only time I have ever been able to recognize a mason outside of lodge is if I saw his ring or noticed a sticker or emblem on his car.

Most masons are proud of masonry, but they don't typically seek recognition.

Families of masons are treated with great respect by masons. We operate homes for the widows and orphans of masons and try to reach out and meet any needs they might have. It is not a 'benefit' society as such but we try to take care of the family of a brother to the best of our ability.

Oh now this could get interesting.

I too was wondering what proof would show that, lol.

John Lear showing up would be cool.

Originally posted by 360Degrees
reply to post by Masonic Light

 

Centuries??? NOW I challenge YOU to present YOUR proof. Centuries?? The country is "officially" only a little over 200 years old itself. And trust me, the centuries prior to that, African-Americans spents in the fields, not cozying up in anyone's lodge. Come on, lets be civilized and rational here. Must you continue to insult everyone's intelligence? See everyone? See how even when faced with raw, undeniable truth, they still attempt to blind you? I know it must anger you that I will not, and cannot, be cajoled into believing any of this foolishness you perpetuate. And this is just scratching the surface (the issue of exclusion and prevalent racism).

I think the point of this dialogue is to discuss masonry now, as it exists in the present.

There were bad masons and non-masons in history. The accusations you make apply to society as a whole and not just masonry.

Masons are expected to respect the laws of their country and stand for (if nothing else) the equality of all men.

To exclude men of a certain race would not only be illegal in this country, but it would be immoral and go against the grain of masonry's fundamental beliefs.

To me it sounds like you have a bone to pick with masonry because you did not collect the personal benefits or rewards you expected. Anyone who comes to masonry expecting some sort of personal benefit or reward will be sorely disappointed.

Originally posted by 360Degrees
reply to post by Matrix1111

 

Again--as I clarified yesterday. You and Rune Spider are WAY off of what I said and my point. I said WHITE Masons---meaning Scottish and York Rite---do not allow African-Americans to join THEIR ranks. You both replied about Prince Hall allowing anyone to join thiers. Yes---no one said they didn't. They were the Men excluded, so they petitioned for their OWN lodge. Trust me, Iknow the history. As for Runes comments yesterday (and yours)---Wikpedia??? Are you serious?? I woulnd't look how to make lemonade on Wikpedia. Do you seriously believe anything worth knowing about Freemasonry--other than what they feed the deaf, dumb, and blind---is going to be found on Wikpedia??? My friend, I have done more study and reserach than probably many 33rd Degrees have on their own craft. Definitely more than any 3rd Degree. The only reason I didn't pursue being a member is because I know, have sat and intellectualized with, far more intelligent Men--and got--for free-- what many pay money for in these degrees. Besides---why rise or revolve to a mere 33 degress when I'm capable of a full 360??

I don't know if anyone responded to this yet, but you are wrong. We have African-Americans in both the Scottish and York rites. Prince Hall also have fromed Scottish and York rite groups. In fact a copy of the rituals for the scottish rite was given to a Prince Hall rep. by Albert Pike. Kind of puts that myth of him being a KKK member on shaking ground.

Wow I leave for while and the thread takes off. I should had known that Masonic Light would had responded. As I said Albert Pike gave the rituals to the Prince Hall masons. That would had been in the late 1800s, so that is more than a hundred years. As for as the York Rite, The frist 3 degees as practice in the US are as they were done in the York Rite. The Scottish Rite has a different version.( done mostly in south america) The Royal Arch degree was most likely past to Prince Hall close to the time that he recived his charter from the Grand Lodge of England. Most likely in the late 1700s. Gee I guest that is over 200 years ago. I am sure that other brothers will be able to fell in the history better than I.

[edit on 17-7-2008 by lost in the midwest]

Was Joseph Smith thrown out of the lodge or did he leave? If he was thrown out, is there a reason why?

reply to post by lost in the midwest


OK....again, here we are off of my POINT. I was clearly speaking of AFRICAN-AMERICANS which would--logically (I hope anyway) make the point I am talking about WHITE AMERICAN Masons. Obviously, Prince Hall was granted a charter--by the Grand Lodge of England--thus PRINCE HALL FREEMASONRY. I was, once again, making the point that for Masons (WHITE AMERICAN---AND ALL OF YOU) to fancy themselves as SQUARE, LEVEL, BENEVOLENT, CHARITABLE fellows, they certainlty didn't extend that philosophy to all mankind--at least not African-Americans. Now if you are looking for a pat on the back because you RECENTLY began to realize the errors of your ways--look elsewhere. Where was all that "benevolence" from the founding father Masons when they were declaring "all men are created equal". Oh, thats right, they owned slaves too.hmmmmm

reply to post by emsed1


Rewards from Masonry? Are you serious? I have a wonderful, job, home and family. What could Masonry possibly offer me? A distress signal to flash a judge? Well, don't get in trouble...so no need for that. Brohterhood? I already belong to a brotherhood far more ancient, benevolent, and enlightened that Masonry could ever aspire to be. And guess what? Didn't cost me a dime---the way you charge your "brothers" for every degree they earn. In case you missed my earlier reply--I am far beyond anything you could pretend to teach or offer

Originally posted by 360Degrees
Now if you are looking for a pat on the back because you RECENTLY began to realize the errors of your ways--look elsewhere.

You're taking today's Masons to task for what society as a whole did well before most of us were born? Shall we take today's Catholic Church to task for the behaviour of the Inquisition? Any other old warhorses you'd like to clamber aboard while we're at it? What say we take it back to the Crucifixtion while we're at it? Where does it end?

reply to post by 360Degrees

If you wish to live in the past that fine with me. Was there a time when the Races didn't mix in the lodge, yes in the US. There were Black Masons in the British lodges for ages. Go to the Islands man. Remember Masonry is just a cross section of the pop. and tends to act in the same way as the rest of the pop. does. I choose to look at the world today and not the past.

Originally posted by 360Degrees
reply to post by emsed1

 

Rewards from Masonry? Are you serious? I have a wonderful, job, home and family. What could Masonry possibly offer me? A distress signal to flash a judge? Well, don't get in trouble...so no need for that. Brohterhood? I already belong to a brotherhood far more ancient, benevolent, and enlightened that Masonry could ever aspire to be. And guess what? Didn't cost me a dime---the way you charge your "brothers" for every degree they earn. In case you missed my earlier reply--I am far beyond anything you could pretend to teach or offer

In that case then masonry does not have anything to offer you. It is only one path to enlightenment and it sounds like you have found another.

Just as a point, though, masonry has not asked me for a dime other than my initial $75 (to pay for my apron and paperwork) and dues of $50 per year. I consider that a bargain because I get to attend wonderful events in a beautiful building, and I get a really good meal 2-3 times per month.

That's 36 wonderful home-cooked meals for $50, so it's a bargain in my mind.

I can't understand why you insist on attacking masonry at every turn, resorting to the most base and visceral arguments. If you have found enlightenment through your brotherhood then why attack ours?

I respect your beliefs, but what are you trying to save us from? If you know something please tell us because I want to know before it's too late.

If you are just being a mean person that's ok too, but if you've got the beans spill em.

Originally posted by 360Degrees

Rewards from Masonry? Are you serious? I have a wonderful, job, home and family. What could Masonry possibly offer me? [snip] In case you missed my earlier reply--I am far beyond anything you could pretend to teach or offer

Everyone can learn SOMETHING else, so I truly believe you COULD learn something from Masonry, if you were so inclined. However, such is obviously not the case. You obviously have no regard for nor interest in Masonry. As such, Masonry then has no interest in you. That being said, don't try to join us. We'll be OK without you.

Freemasonry isn't for everyone. Never was intended to be.

Originally posted by 360Degrees

OK....again, here we are off of my POINT.

No you are off the point of this thread, I am asking you now to get back to the Topic of this thread Ask a Mason your question about racism has been answered if you are unhappy with the answers you are very welcome to start a new thread here.

Sauron
Forum Moderator


[edit on 17/7/2008 by Sauron]

reply to post by senrak


See, while I keep my comments on the GENERAL way Masonry has operated, you choose to personally attack? How do you know what I know? No doubt, just as it has flourished without me--I'm sure it shall continue to do so. That's neither here nor there with me. If you feel Masonry has so much to teach--let the class begin. Why hide your teachings/philosophy/beliefs? And I'm not talking about the "Wikpedia" stuff everyone wants to direct me to (unbelievable---Wikpedia, yeah right). Teach me what you think I don't know--once class begun you'd be suprised at what I could teach YOU

reply to post by 360Degrees


360 Degrees - I hereby offer to debate you in the ATS Debate Forum on a freemasonry topic of your choosing, according to the divine will and providence of the most excellent super moderator of that forum.

If you accept I will issue the challenge formally and let you choose the topic you want, so long as it is about Blue Lodge Freemasonry.

If you don't want to, I will fully respect that decision and never mention it again or use it for any advantage.

What say you?

reply to post by Sauron


Oh,OK....then. I'm "asking a Mason"---teach me what you think I don't know. Let's truly get into the vein of this thread then

reply to post by emsed1


Challenge gracefully accepted. I am not familar with the "forum" of which you speak. Guide me there, and I will be more than obliged to dialogue/debate you on any topic we/you choose/agree upon

reply to post by 360Degrees


I am not entirely sure how it works myself but I see where we can U2U the moderator there and get set up.

I can send one and let you know if you want. I think once we agree on all the particulars they set up a thread for us and give us the rules.

I will see what I can find out.

reply to post by 360Degrees


I sent the mods a U2U so I will let you know what I find out. Can you send U2Us or do you need more points yet?

reply to post by emsed1


Not sure. I am new to this site, and not totally familiar with all the intricacies. Please, by all means, keep me posted on what I may need to do to participate.