Ask a Mason

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
I'm sorry If I'm repeating a question that has already been answered but I am wondering why women are not accepted as Free Masons - I would really enjoy the long answer/ i.e spiritual reasoning for this.

This is an excellent question.

I cannot give you an official answer, but I can give you my opinion as a mason. This is my opinion only.

It is the same reason boyscouts should only have boys, and the girlscouts should only be girls.

You could derive much of the reasoning by studying Sir James George Frazer's the Golden Bough.......it is about a rite of passage.

We have in the modern world stressed the equality of man and woman, and that is a value we should take pride in compared to all those cultures that still live in the dark ages of sexism, and poor treatment of women.

However while man and woman are "equal" in their value in a community they are not the same. We are built quite differently. On a deeply biological level even our thought patterns are different. Certainly our expectations are different. Ultimately no man will ever be a "mother", and ultimately even the most masculine of women can not truly be a "father". The more radical of modernists will cry out against "gender" roles. However gender roles are CRUCIAL to a harmonious society....looking at street gangs and how horribel the effects of so many young men growing up without good role models and the violence it leads to should convince any sane person of that.

The rite of passage for men is especially important, men are very prone to impulses of passion, and at times even violence, because of how we are built. This is not a bad thing. These qualities are intended to make us better defenders of our family, and community...man from archaic times is designed to be the "warrior" of the family. Like wise women since ancient times have had an important place as the nurturer of the family, of the children, as an educator, and more often then not as a voice of "reason".

In ancient times men in every society on earth all went through some "rite of passage" that took them from boyhood to manhood, so that they put away childish fantasy, and embraced a MAN's obligations to his family and community....however as we have gotten far away from those tribal traditions, and archaic ceremonies we lost that....and so you see adult men today act like children, full of selfish behavior, and childish tantrums, something that can be a dangerous combination with how we are "built" in biochemistry.

Men still need that rite of passage...I would argue women likely do too. However while equal we are different and men need male role models, just as women need women role models, so that we may learn what it means to be men and women... Ultimately masonry is teachings wisdom,and lessons that apply to being a man, and women being there would only serve to cause boys to act like boys, not men.....and yes even males in their 60's may still be "boys" when rough and unpolished by virtue.

Masonry does have several appendant bodies for women, one of which i the Eastern Star...though I must admit that is as much for husband and wife as it is for women.

I myself would not be opposed to a stronger masonic style appendent body for women only, that served the same purpose for making girls into women.....I think our society would benefit greatly by such a body. It probably is high time such a body should exist, i think maybe some women from the Eastern Star would do an excellent job of building such a group.

I just wanted to tell you all that you fail at spelling, 'PEDOPHILE.'

Originally posted by luckycuban
I just wanted to tell you all that you fail at spelling, 'PEDOPHILE.'

Let it stand.

(honestly, was there anything to be added to this discussion by a one-line post pointing out a typo someone made 5 pages ago?)

Originally posted by Mahilum
Another question:

I understand that there is no higher degree than Master Mason, and degrees obtained in appendant bodies like the York Rite and Scottish Rite do not mean that these degree holders are higher than Blue Lodge Master Masons, but don't these degrees go more in-depth of the three Blue Lodge degrees?

In other words (because I know that was confusing), aren't Scottish Rite members more knowledgeable of the EA, FC, and MM degrees than non-Scottish Rite members?

I'm not asking to stir up more controversial questions, it's just something that hit me when I was looking at the Scottish Rite website. I'm petitioning my local main lodge next month and I'm trying to learn as much as possible before then.

Thanks.

It's my understanding that the Rite degrees go into much more depth about masonic stories, etc. I believe they are mostly dramas rather than the participatory degrees of the blue lodge.

Originally posted by emsed1


It's my understanding that the Rite degrees go into much more depth about masonic stories, etc. I believe they are mostly dramas rather than the participatory degrees of the blue lodge.

They are both dramatic and participatory, just like the Third Degree.

If there are large classes of candidates, however, it is more feasible to choose one candidate to represent the entire class in the ceremony, than have everybody ritualistically participate.

Originally posted by emsed1
It's my understanding that the Rite degrees go into much more depth about masonic stories, etc. I believe they are mostly dramas rather than the participatory degrees of the blue lodge.

Close. The Scottish Rite degrees are generally dramas, but the York Rite degrees are still walked much as the Blue Lodge. (Truth be told, in most jurisdictions, I think the first 3 degrees ARE York Rite degrees, if memory serves me correctly...)

And the stories the York & Scottish Rite aren't necessarily the same. Some may cover the same allegory from two different points of view, and there are two different tellings of recovering the lost word of Hiram Abiff, continuing the legend of the 3rd degree. Not that one is right and the other is wrong, mind you... it's all allegorical and none of it is being presented as serious history. Just showing you different ways to think about things that might lead you to make better choices in your life, really.

[edit on 7/21/2008 by JoshNorton]

Managed to get a question finally:
I managed to get to the book store finally, been short on cash for awhile. I was going to pick up Morals and Dogma to browse through.
There were... several version of the book, rnaging in price from ten to a good bit over 80 dollars.
I was impressed, I'll admit, but my question is, which version would be the beest one worth studying?

reply to post by RuneSpider


I wouldn't want to spend TOO much money on a book that's in the public domain. It's not like Pike's around to get royalties or anything. I'm not too familiar with what's available at the moment. I know that someone went through and re-wrote the text to modernize it... "Morals & Dogma for the 21st Century." I've heard mixed reviews on that one. In some ways, it DOES make the text more accessible, but at the same time, it apparently glosses over, or gets wrong, some of what Pike was saying.

Find an edition that fits how you treat your books. If you want something you can mark-up and highlight, grab a $15 paperback. If you want something more substantial for your library, invest in a solid hardback. The thing's more than 800 pages, so you'll want a binding that can hold up to its own weight.

Additional and supplementary reading would include "A Bridge to Light" by Rex Hutchens. This is the book currently given to new members of the Scottish Rite - Southern Jurisdiction. (The Scottish Rite Ritual Monitor & Guide by Arturo de Hoyas is quite impressive, but probably overkill for the casual outsider.

reply to post by JoshNorton


I bought and read substantial portions of Morals and Dogma for the 21st Century - I also read the orginal, and it seemed to be to translate what Pike was saying into "modern english." Where are you hearing these debates at? I feel like I must have missed some major gaping errors in it! I was about to recommend that to anyone who wanted a "easy" version of Pike (which would not be RuneSpider, by the way - your too advanced!).

If you want something to take with you that easy to ready and study from, RuneSpider, I recommend the paperback version which says "Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry" - it comes in 2 seperate books to keep the size down, but has very large margins for note writing and is the original text. They even kept the Ye Olde type face and everything


[edit on 21-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

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reply to post by Donnie Darko


As masonry generally reflects the population, I'd say a very very small number (as only a very small number of sociopaths exist in the general population).

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
How many Masons are sociopaths?

On this forum or in the world at large?

Originally posted by emsed1
Hi guys,

I know a lot of you have questions about Freemasonry and it seems like there are quite a few masons here that can answer your questions.

I'd like to invite those who are interested to submit questions and I will be happy to try and answer them. There are a lot of brothers here that can correct me.

It would be helpful if you can limit your questions (in this thread anyway) to Blue Lodge Masonry, in other words the first three degrees. The higher degrees are done in York Rite, Scottish Rite and Shriners and I don't know anything about them.

We obviously won't be able to give you any of the 'secret' passwords (dramatic music here) but I am happy to tell you whatever I can.

Hopefully it can be helpful and I welcome anti-masons to present opposing viewpoints but please keep it civil. (I swear I will pull this thread over...)

And now for the basics...

Requirements for Joining Masonry (US)

Being a man, freeborn, of good repute and well-recommended;

A belief in a Supreme Being;

Ability to support one's self and family;

Of lawful age; and

Come to Freemasonry of their "own free will and accord".

Supreme Being Belief Requirement

Everything that is taught in Freemasonry relates to a singular, benevolent God. For an atheist or believer of many gods the lessons of masonry would not make sense because they assume you believe in one God.

You don't have to tell anyone 'what' God you believe in, and no one will ever ask you. In most US lodges we use the Holy Bible for initiation, but a Koran or other book can be used if preferred by the candidate.

Religion and Politics

It is absolutely forbidden to discuss religion or politics in the lodge. A long time ago masons realized these were the two major topics that disrupt and divide people.

We do have opening and closing prayers in lodge that are addressed to the "Supreme Architect of the Universe", but that's about as close as it gets to religion.

Personal Gain

Anyone who joins masonry expecting personal gain or benefit will be disappointed. It's all about giving and not expecting anything in return.

So, what's the point?

Masonry exists to teach men about their duty to God, their neighbor and themselves. As you advance through the degrees you will learn about brotherly love, truth and relief.

Relief?

If a brother is in trouble (IE losing a job, etc.) masons are expected to help him to the best of their ability, except that it would place them or their family in harm's way. Examples include money, clothes, groceries, transportation, etc.

If you are a mason and break the law you are on your own. Freemasonry promotes lawfulness, citizenship and patriotism. Wrongdoing is not tolerated.

What happens at meetings?

There are two kinds of meetings. We have business meetings a couple times per month that are mundane and boring. The other meetings are 'degree ceremonies'. They are moving and beautiful, and a lot of fun!

Anyway, that's a start. Fire away!

well done brother. also any questions regarding the masonic youth feel free to ask me with the above restrictions.

K.J. 2*
Order of DeMolay

reply to post by southerndemolay


Welcome to the fray brother!

reply to post by southerndemolay


I'm a DeMolay as well in Southern California (Agate Chapter)

i have some issues with DeMolay now days that i think should be ressolved and some reform made in DeMolay.

i wont get into that now, but welcome to ATS, there are many brethren on ATS who have lots of information and knowledge to share

Originally posted by Achilles 13
Those, 2 posts were ALSO for this propaganda thread to...

- Stop Lying...
- Stop misleading...
- Stop proselytizing and recruiting here at ATS...!

Hi Achilles,

Did you have a question for the 'Ask a Mason' thread? I would be happy to provide an answer but I am not sure what you are asking.

Could you rephrase your post in the form of a question?

Thanks, I look forward to hearing from you.

reply to post by Achilles 13


You stop proselytizing, and he'll stop having to defend Masonry from you, and he'll be able to therefore stop proselytizing.

Originally posted by Achilles 13

**************************************

Could it be possible, that you would...

- Stop Lying...
- Stop misleading...
- Stop proselytizing and recruiting here at ATS...!

or you are so brainwashed by the Solomon's Temple freemasonry
psychological manipulation strategies that it is just impossible for
you all to be honest with populations.

**************************************

Thanks for the questions.

As far as lying, do you have a specific example? I know you have a distaste for masonry, but if you feel there are specific things posted here that are untruthful I would love to help clear them up.

What do you mean by misleading? Do you feel that the information here is misleading about masonry, despite the fact that it is presented by masons?

As for the third point I had to go to the divine source of all information, the god WIK-I-PEE-DEE-AHH to make sure I understood 'proselytizing'.

Here is what he said:

Proselytism is the practice of attempting to convert people to another opinion and, particularly, another religion. The word proselytism is derived ultimately from the Greek language prefix 'pros' (towards) and the verb 'erchomai' (I come).

My answer would be:

1 - Freemasonry is not a religion, so there is nothing to convert people to.

2 - Freemasonry forbids recruiting so that point is pretty null. In fact, If I were 'recruiting' this would be the WORST POSSIBLE PLACE to try and recruit. ATS is not known for blind ignorance.

Thanks!


Edited to make the quote readable.

[edit on 7/30/08 by emsed1]